"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

And they used a panel from the latest chapter to illustrate Evolved Blue Vegeta. Didn't notice he is using Evolved Blue vs Moro, he is not messing around.

Yeah, Piccolo and Gohan mention that Vegeta is using the same Blue form from the TOP in this chapter. IE That evolved version of Blue.
Which Vegeta also used against Moro, earlier in the arc.

[Noitsnothim]

And they used a panel from the latest chapter to illustrate Evolved Blue Vegeta. Didn't notice he is using Evolved Blue vs Moro, he is not messing around.

Yeah, Piccolo and Gohan mention that Vegeta is using the same Blue form from the TOP in this chapter. IE That evolved version of Blue.
Which Vegeta also used against Moro, earlier in the arc.

It is evolution (The aura is flamelike like SSG)

[Miracles]

And they used a panel from the latest chapter to illustrate Evolved Blue Vegeta. Didn't notice he is using Evolved Blue vs Moro, he is not messing around.

Yeah, Piccolo and Gohan mention that Vegeta is using the same Blue form from the TOP in this chapter. IE That evolved version of Blue.
Which Vegeta also used against Moro, earlier in the arc.

It is evolution (The aura is flamelike like SSG)

Agreed. I stated the evolved version of Blue, meaning Blue evolution.
The form Vegeta used in the TOP. Like Piccolo and Gohan were discussing.

[Noitsnothim]

Yeah, Piccolo and Gohan mention that Vegeta is using the same Blue form from the TOP in this chapter. IE That evolved version of Blue.
Which Vegeta also used against Moro, earlier in the arc.

It is evolution (The aura is flamelike like SSG)

Agreed. I stated the evolved version of Blue, meaning Blue evolution.
The form Vegeta used in the TOP. Like Piccolo and Gohan were discussing.

I like the Manga's version better than the anime's

[Miracles]

It is evolution (The aura is flamelike like SSG)

Agreed. I stated the evolved version of Blue, meaning Blue evolution.
The form Vegeta used in the TOP. Like Piccolo and Gohan were discussing.

I like the Manga's version better than the anime's

Me too. The anime made Vegeta look like he's advertising for Crest toothpaste.

[Draconic]

Some great action this chapter. However, this chapter really confirms to me that this whole thing is just filler. Goku still can't use UI, even though he trained for it, and Vegeta hasn't moved past Blue Evolution. The status quo is the same as at the end of the Tournament of Power. Nothing changed, like... at all... Vegeta learned a new technique and that's kind of it.

Each passing chapter I'm liking Moro's design more and more... I don't know, but it keeps growing on me. I don't think he's great by any means, but I don't think he's a trainwreck either. Merus on the other hand... terrible character.

[Alruneia]

Cipher translated the whole thing here:



Some key takeaways:

- "Blue Kaioken" might be a convenient shorthand rather than a literal Kaioken. The blurb still mentions that he's only using the principles of Kaioken to stress the form beyond its normal limit, just like what the manga said, although I suppose it's all up to interpretation.

- Goku and Vegeta really did learn to transform into Super Saiyan God on their own after Battle of Gods. I'd suspected this, but it's nice to have that extra confirmation. The ritual retains its status as a temporary method, but it's just one of two ways to activate SSG.

- Blue Vegetto rivals Beerus. Not sure why that was ever debatable (there wouldn't be dialogue mentioning it in the first place if it wasn't true) but there you go.

- Blue Evolved is a "uniquely styled mastery of Blue", so it's still just Blue at its core.

None of this information is terribly new, but it confirms what you could infer by just reading the manga.

Thank you. I've read through some more of Cipher's tweets, and the overall impression I'm getting is that this is mostly an interpretation of manga statements, there's not really any new information here. It's an interesting summary, I guess, but the way I see it, it doesn't really "resolve" the Not-Kaioken thing. We'll probably just have to ask Toyotaro directly...

[Grand Marshal 1]

Some great action this chapter. However, this chapter really confirms to me that this whole thing is just filler. Goku still can't use UI, even though he trained for it, and Vegeta hasn't moved past Blue Evolution. The status quo is the same as at the end of the Tournament of Power. Nothing changed, like... at all... Vegeta learned a new technique and that's kind of it.

Each passing chapter I'm liking Moro's design more and more... I don't know, but it keeps growing on me. I don't think he's great by any means, but I don't think he's a trainwreck either. Merus on the other hand... terrible character.

I also like Moro. And I even welcome characters like Saganbo and 7-3.

But I still have an itch in the back of my head. It tells me "imagine if you had an Arc with 2 entirely different villains, linked by Galactic Patrol, but with different goals that may collide in the end of the chapter".

Or, instead of Cranberry breaking Moro out (I still don't believe it) have Sealas and Ahms losing their trust to the Galactic Patrol (as to Chronoa once) and have them free Moro. Then don't do much with Sealas while he tries to find his own justice, but with Moro growing overconfident in his power, his chaos collides with Sealas' justice and we have an epic 3 faction clash in the end...

Heroes has some amazing ideas. And when I say 3 parties I mean it. Even the ToP just felt like U7 vs everyone else, or just U11.

But the Dark Demon Gods Saga in Heroes did well with 3 parties, until the 2 decided to ally themselves etc.

But not this time, I would love for that 1v1v1 showdown.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

I feel like they should save an angel death for a later arc. Doing it when its threat who can be dealt with by Beerus would lower tension. After Moro, there are no doubt going to be more threats that could potentially rival the god of destruction in future arcs.

Simply have an angel die in a future arc where the god of of destruction can't hakai the threat out of existence. I'd personally rather they not kill Merus off without doing anything with him, and I feel the sacrifice would be pointless when its against a threat Beerus can deal with if he got off his ass.

If they don't kill Merus off I hope it'll end with the grand priest warning Merus about the law, and that Whis is basically his guardian and teacher about how to remain more neutral and have Merus be off screen until a later arc.

[MajinMan]

I’m honestly not too impressed with the last 6 or so chapters. Something about this fight with Moro and his goons just seems off. It’s like a never ending cycle of the same things repeating itself, and hopefully the arc ends in the next 4 or so chapters.

[Kagari]

I’m honestly not too impressed with the last 6 or so chapters. Something about this fight with Moro and his goons just seems off. It’s like a never ending cycle of the same things repeating itself, and hopefully the arc ends in the next 4 or so chapters.

It doesn't help that Moro himself is paper-thin. He doesn't have any real chemistry with any character in the main cast unlike previous antagonists, and the story itself lacks the base through thread of actual narrative for them (the cast) as well. They're all just there because they read the script at this point. Goku, the main character, can be removed from the entire arc and not much would change. That's a huge problem.

[Matches Malone]

It doesn't help that Moro himself is paper-thin. He doesn't have any real chemistry with any character in the main cast unlike previous antagonists.

He's not the only one, As Broly, Jiren, and Hit suffered from the same issues. Broly was a raging lunatic, Jiren had the personality of a spoon, and Hit although had interesting abilities, he didn't have much of a personality. That's a far cry from Freeza, Beerus, Cell, Fat Buu, etc. Moro definitely has interesting abilities and a great design, but his personality and character could've used more work.

[caire]

I'd definitely agree that Moro is a bit 'thin', as a character. He was interesting, but the novelty has worn off a bit now.
But I think that's more because of how he was intended. Ultimately, this arc is definitely Vegeta-centric and focuses on Vegeta's (second? third? fourth?) redemption. I feel that Moro, as a character, is a 'foil' to Vegeta (sorry if that's not the right word, my English is still shaky!) - someone who attacked Namek to search for the Dragon Balls, to the extent that Vegeta directly informs us as to how he's doing that through finding the villages etc, because he did the exact same. And because Moro couldn't be defeated through sheer strength, that resulted in Goku and Vegeta (especially Vegeta) to search for other ways to defeat him that don't involve "punch him hard". In that sense, Moro served his purpose in the first half of this arc. He's someone for the characters to react to, rather than driving the story himself, and in particular, someone whose actions in the first half forced Vegeta into trying to make amends for his own past as well as swallow his pride.
Now that he's served that purpose and now that Vegeta has done those things, he's just a generic goat-man villain. (Although I do like his habit of keeping *most* of his mooks around, even when they annoy him.)

[Kinokima]

Moro is boring for sure but a villain doesn’t usually make
or break an arc for me.

[Miracles]

Some great action this chapter. However, this chapter really confirms to me that this whole thing is just filler. Goku still can't use UI, even though he trained for it, and Vegeta hasn't moved past Blue Evolution. The status quo is the same as at the end of the Tournament of Power. Nothing changed, like... at all... Vegeta learned a new technique and that's kind of it.

Each passing chapter I'm liking Moro's design more and more... I don't know, but it keeps growing on me. I don't think he's great by any means, but I don't think he's a trainwreck either. Merus on the other hand... terrible character.

What about the progress of Goku being able to transform into UI sign at will?
Vegeta's training definitely improved him in overall power too.
There is definitely story development for our mainsters here.

[Matches Malone]

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

There's speculation that the reason we got these breakdowns, and the mention of Vegetto being on Beerus' level, is because that's who might take down Moro. An UI Sign Vegetto using Vegeta's new Yardrat technique.

Before I get into why I don't think this is a good idea, let me start by saying if it does happen, it'll be as epic as one can imagine. With that said, it'll be the fourth time in a row where Fusion played a big role in the plot, the second time in a row that Goku and Vegeta relied on it, and the third time overall considering they fought Zamasu with it.

If they want Moro to be taken down in a one on one fight, have Vegeta or MUI Goku do it. If they want him to be taken out through team work, bring back Buu and have him work with Vegeta and Goku to seal him up. Fusion was one of the best parts of the Buu arc for me, but it's being overused now, and bringing it back will just make it more so.

[MajinMan]

It doesn't help that Moro himself is paper-thin. He doesn't have any real chemistry with any character in the main cast unlike previous antagonists, and the story itself lacks the base through thread of actual narrative for them (the cast) as well. They're all just there because they read the script at this point. Goku, the main character, can be removed from the entire arc and not much would change. That's a huge problem.

I agree, Moro doesn’t have that connection to the protagonists like other villains did. Even someone like Jiren, who a lot of people hate, had conflict with Goku and his beliefs. Moro is just like, “hey you mortals are strong let me suck your energy and continue to grow stronger.” Which is a shame, by the way, because I like his design and powers. The arc also dipped in quality after the fights on Namek, which I thought were more tense and fun to read.

[Grand Marshal 1]

I would love for the trio to deal with Moro together. Imagine having UIO Goku doing what he did, Vegeta using his technique which will weaken Moro at some form and the Grand Supreme Kai preparing his sealing spell.

But tbh, I would have preferred it if Daikaioshin was separated from Buu. That may cause problems in his power or something, but I just don't think that these 2 are the same characters. If it's a victory, it will be one for Daikaioshin. Not Buu. Who is just asleep.

Or take advantage of this split personality of Buu. Whenever Daikaioshin isn't around, have Buu deal with Moro in his own way.

[LoganForkHands73]

It doesn't help that Moro himself is paper-thin. He doesn't have any real chemistry with any character in the main cast unlike previous antagonists, and the story itself lacks the base through thread of actual narrative for them (the cast) as well. They're all just there because they read the script at this point. Goku, the main character, can be removed from the entire arc and not much would change. That's a huge problem.

I agree, Moro doesn’t have that connection to the protagonists like other villains did. Even someone like Jiren, who a lot of people hate, had conflict with Goku and his beliefs. Moro is just like, “hey you mortals are strong let me suck your energy and continue to grow stronger.” Which is a shame, by the way, because I like his design and powers. The arc also dipped in quality after the fights on Namek, which I thought were more tense and fun to read.

Exactly, I think that's the missing piece that makes Moro feel more like a movie villain than a true antagonist, because aside from killing innocents and fighting, what specific personality trait or conflict of interest of his is antagonistic to our protagonists' ideologies? Buu had similar problems but he made up for it with a more unique personality which contrasted against the other characters in fun ways (at least until he started absorbing people and lost most of those traits).

The one thing I can think of is that Moro's attack on New Namek and overall personality make a good punching bag for Vegeta to release his anger about his past mistakes on which had all the makings of a good conflict, but none of that has really been relevant in the current story direction. That, combined with the fanbase's obsession with letting Vegeta get a win, makes their rivalry feel kinda forced so far. It's strange to me that Moro could even remember Vegeta's name. This is the one thing that I'm willing to be proven wrong on as we're still in early days.

[emperior]

I’m honestly not too impressed with the last 6 or so chapters. Something about this fight with Moro and his goons just seems off. It’s like a never ending cycle of the same things repeating itself, and hopefully the arc ends in the next 4 or so chapters.

It doesn't help that Moro himself is paper-thin. He doesn't have any real chemistry with any character in the main cast unlike previous antagonists, and the story itself lacks the base through thread of actual narrative for them (the cast) as well. They're all just there because they read the script at this point. Goku, the main character, can be removed from the entire arc and not much would change. That's a huge problem.

Buu too didn’t have much chemistry with the characters, but he was interesting and what was happening around him was even more interesting.

So I don’t think Moro’s characterization is the only problem. This arc is basically a very long Toei movie and it’s such a shame because it will probably end up being the longest Dragon Ball arc in manga format if we go by page count. Instead of wasting time on Earthlings vs Prisoners or other time-wasting stuff, Toyotaro should have tried to characterize Moro better and also build up a better, more genuine rivalry between him and Goku and Vegeta.

The latest chapters have been fun though. Even if it’s the weakest Super storyline thus far, at least now that we’re in the climax it’s getting quite interesting in my opinion.

It’s undoubtedly a semi-filler arc though. The only stuff which doesn’t feel like filler is Vegeta going to Yardrat, Merus being an Angel and Goku training with him.

And only one of these will probably have an impact in the future and be referenced again, and that’s Merus being an Angel as Toyotaro has already telegraphed that he will end up being erased and this was all Toriyama’s idea.