Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

I'm sure that the widely accepted SSJ multipliers, established via Daizenshuu, V Jump, Death Battle, etc are as follows:

SSJ - 50x
SSJ2 - 100x
SSJ3 - 400x
SSJ4 - 4000x

SSJ God seems to be heavily debated, with the multiplier sitting somewhere between 5000 - 50,000

I actually have SSJ God at 2 million haha.

[Godo]

No, that can't work. Goku is stronger than SSJG2 Vegeta with only half his power and SSJ Vegeta is already stronger than C-16 when he gets out of the ROSAT because Trunks basically says so. If Semi-Perfect Cell were 880,000,000, Goku would have to be greater than 1,660,000,000 as a FPSSJ bare minimum and Gohan's even stronger than that so he too would be have a BP far greater than 1,660,000,000. You then multiply that by 2, the SSJ2 multiplier, and you get something much stronger than 3,320,000,000 for SSJ2 Gohan. That's not even considering a rage boost.

Sure, but I am saying that they can work if we throw our previous systems away. Anything can work if you rework it.
I don't agree with the numbers, yet you try to make them work with your own numbers, which IMO is where the fallacy stands.

Throwing the previous systems away is fallacy itself .

The numbers do not work because of that you people are too hung up on a "system".
Either it is official, or it isn't.
If those numbers are considered official, then they should be regarded as highly as the SSJ multipliers as well.
Simply, from an official standpoint, we have powerlevels until Trunks' level of 5, the multipliers and some movie numbers (which are the closest to official you can get).
The rest are numbers that are made up by fans.
Thus I regard it as a fallacy, and the rest are mere speculations regarding comments by characters, interpreted by fans.

I for one don't care about those V-Jump numbers.
But throwing them away just like that because "they don't work" doesn't fit well with me.

[dbzfan7]

It's almost impossible to incorporate every possible hint or line or statement.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The numbers do not work because of that you people are too hung up on a "system".
Either it is official, or it isn't.
If those numbers are considered official, then they should be regarded as highly as the SSJ multipliers as well.
Simply, from an official standpoint, we have powerlevels until Trunks' level of 5, the multipliers and some movie numbers (which are the closest to official you can get).
The rest are numbers that are made up by fans.
Thus I regard it as a fallacy, and the rest are mere speculations regarding comments by characters, interpreted by fans.

I for one don't care about those V-Jump numbers.
But throwing them away just like that because "they don't work" doesn't fit well with me.

Umm, the system AS WELL as the manga disprove these numbers. FPSSJ Goku is already more than twice as strong as SSJG2 Vegeta. SSJ Vegeta is stronger than C-16 after getting out of the ROSAT as well. These things alone disprove these "official" listings. The Daizenshuu, Super Exciting Guide, and especially the manga override any bull shit this V-Jump scan conjures. Sure we could sit here all day and claim these numbers are different because movies use different levels for the Zetto Senshii, but then we come to Gogeta. The Daizenshuu already claims that fusion makes people many times stronger than the fusees. In fact the GT Perfect files claims Gogeta is many 10s of times stronger than either Goku or Vegeta. For the sake of argument, lets put the multiplier at 30 times Goku or Vegeta since many means more than 2. If we take Super Gogeta's power level of 2,500,000,000 and divide it by 50, his base power level would be 50,000,000. Lets divide that by 30. We get a BP of 1,666,666.6. Hmm, that's lower than Goku's power level when he beat Freeza. Bull shit? Yeah I'd say so.

[ZombieVito]

Unless you are bound by the Daiz on that 150 million for SSJ Goku, that 470 million for Cooler is doable.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Unless you are bound by the Daiz on that 150 million for SSJ Goku, that 470 million for Cooler is doable.

Most people just say Goku got a pretty sizable Zenkai.

[Godo]

The numbers do not work because of that you people are too hung up on a "system".
Either it is official, or it isn't.
If those numbers are considered official, then they should be regarded as highly as the SSJ multipliers as well.
Simply, from an official standpoint, we have powerlevels until Trunks' level of 5, the multipliers and some movie numbers (which are the closest to official you can get).
The rest are numbers that are made up by fans.
Thus I regard it as a fallacy, and the rest are mere speculations regarding comments by characters, interpreted by fans.

I for one don't care about those V-Jump numbers.
But throwing them away just like that because "they don't work" doesn't fit well with me.

Umm, the system AS WELL as the manga disprove these numbers. FPSSJ Goku is already more than twice as strong as SSJG2 Vegeta. SSJ Vegeta is stronger than C-16 after getting out of the ROSAT as well. These things alone disprove these "official" listings. The Daizenshuu, Super Exciting Guide, and especially the manga override any bull shit this V-Jump scan conjures. Sure we could sit here all day and claim these numbers are different because movies use different levels for the Zetto Senshii, but then we come to Gogeta. The Daizenshuu already claims that fusion makes people many times stronger than the fusees. In fact the GT Perfect files claims Gogeta is many 10s of times stronger than either Goku or Vegeta. For the sake of argument, lets put the multiplier at 30 times Goku or Vegeta since many means more than 2. If we take Super Gogeta's power level of 2,500,000,000 and divide it by 50, his base power level would be 50,000,000. Lets divide that by 30. We get a BP of 1,666,666.6. Hmm, that's lower than Goku's power level when he beat Freeza. Bull shit? Yeah I'd say so.

Any powerlevel past Freeza is pretty much bullshit, which is my point.
You can choose between different kinds off bullshit, but yet you prefer one bullshit to another.

Also, battle powers (which are derived from scouted readings) are consistently being shown as bullshit, as they in no way show the true power of the user. This is why the scouters were abandoned, and Vegeta taught himself to read ki.
So why, to begin with, should one make levels past the Freeza arc for anything else but for fun?
Even Toriyama himself said that the battle powers became too high to be shown as numbers (if I remember it correctly). Isn't that pretty official then?
It is IMO as serious for a fan to be making battle power lists as when a fan draws SSJ5 Goku.
It is all fun, but still it is only something made up by yourself.

So I don't see how someone who is such invested in DBZ's version of fantasy football so easily calls out on bullshit on numbers, who already have been shown to be a faulty way to measure power to begin with.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Also, battle powers (which are derived from scouted readings) are consistently being shown as bullshit, as they in no way show the true power of the user. This is why the scouters were abandoned, and Vegeta taught himself to read ki.

They were abandoned because everyone after Freeza arc didn't need a scouter, and it was shown to be useless only against warriors that could control their battle power, since the scouters were used to track & read the opponent. The ki sensing ability is shown to be more accurate if the user is good at it, but the numbers of the scouters were always accurate in the manga.

[TheMightyOzaru]

There are no power levels to call bull shit past the Freeza arc. Everything at that point is fan opinion. Toriyama said BPs stopped being calculated because they fluctuated too often, it wasn't because they were too high.

[Kaboom]

So, uh...

... A lot of THESE are certainly new.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/list/

[dbzfan7]

So, uh...

... A lot of THESE are certainly new.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-power/list/

A lot of those don't even make sense.

[RandomGuy96]

A lot of those are... questionable. Like Red being about as strong as Tao. Or Tullece being about as strong as M4 Piccolo. Or General Blue being stronger than Tao.

[Kaboom]

Yeah, the pre-Z levels are all over the place and pretty wacky. Some work well, others don't. I think those should be best taken on a pick-and-choose basis.

The levels for DBZ movies 1-3 all seem pretty solid to me, though.

[RandomGuy96]

The levels for the Biomen, Garlic Jr, and Tullece don't work at all. The ones for Garlic's henchmen are at best extremely questionable. The ones for the Crusher Corps could work, but I don't see the point in attempting to use them and only them when its clear that whoever made those numbers either didn't know anything about the series/other levels or just didn't care.

[dbzfan7]

Am I the only one who is going nuts over the Pilaf Gang levels?

[Kaboom]

Am I the only one who is going nuts over the Pilaf Gang levels?

I'm going to assume that's the equivalent power of their mech suits. Obviously Pilaf gets the best one.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Am I the only one who is going nuts over the Pilaf Gang levels?

No you're not the only one . I'm just gonna say it now.... F*** these pamphlets. Heck, I dropped a lot of the V-Jump levels recently because of how nonsensical they are . I have Neizu, Dore, and Salza in the 500-600K range now.

[ZombieVito]

So those idiotic 250K and 75K for Vegeta and Krillin are from V-Jump and not the Daiz after all. More reason to ignore them.

[TheMightyOzaru]

So those idiotic 250K and 75K for Vegeta and Krillin are from V-Jump and not the Daiz after all. More reason to ignore them.

HMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!! I'm still keeping Krillin at 75,000 though. Gohan jumped to a rather high level prior to his Zenkai so it's only natural that Krillin would thanks to that potential unlock. Plus, I have a hard time believing Krillin surpassed Tenshinhan without that boost.

[Kaboom]

Well this became an angry and haughty thread pretty quickly.