Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

Post by **TripleRach** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:22 pm

m121akuma wrote:Besides, technically speaking, isn't the closest thing to a "true fan" someone who prefers the original Japanese release of the manga?

Ha-hah, so I am superior to all you anime or Viz jerks! But since I only have the tankoubon, I'm still inferior to whoever has every single Jump issue.

Seriously though, you guys should really stop talking down to people. I'm a huge purist myself, and I certainly agree that the dub is quite different from the original anime. But it is close enough that you can still call it the same show overall, unlike Voltron/GoLion or Robotech/Macross, or hell, even the likes of Sailor Moon and Cardcaptors had worse dubs, and they're from the same time period. It's still Dragon Ball overall, and the people who watch are still Dragon Ball fans. They like an inferior version, but they aren't inferior people.

There's a couple that met on this forum. One of them is a dub only fan, and the other hates the dub and only watches the original. And they're engaged to be married. If only we could all get along that well.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:35 pm

I'm going to chime my two cents in on the whole different thing. I understand that Funimation's Dragonball made some changes to the show but most(if not all) of these changes had little impact on the story as a whole.

I've held conversations with both dub fans and sub fans and both, regardless of preference, were well informed.

Rude or not, Metalwario64, had a very valid point. You ask a Dub fan what happened in the Freeza saga and then ask a Sub person the same question and you will get the same summary. Sure their might be minor differences like "Spirit Bomb" instead of "Genki Dama" or "Saiyan" over "Saya-jin" but I use either/or so it translates to the same thing in my head and I think nothing of it.

Regardless of which version you watch, Funimation or the original, you are getting the same basic show. Be grateful we didn't get something to the effect of the Arabic dub, I thought that thread was a big eye opener to how good we here in the states have it.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:57 pm

Big Momma wrote:Now we can all stop bantering back and forth like a broken record!

Erm.....

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:11 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:Be grateful we didn't get something to the effect of the Arabic dub, I thought that thread was a big eye opener to how good we here in the states have it.

Well, we kinda' did, Goku's father being a great scientist'n all.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:24 pm

Rory wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:Be grateful we didn't get something to the effect of the Arabic dub, I thought that thread was a big eye opener to how good we here in the states have it.
Well, we kinda' did, Goku's father being a great scientist'n all.

That was one minor line that doesn't even exist anymore. I'm talking entire story elements rewritten and a complete censoring of characters like Bulma.

NeptuneKai · Post by **NeptuneKai** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 1:36 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:
Rory wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:Be grateful we didn't get something to the effect of the Arabic dub, I thought that thread was a big eye opener to how good we here in the states have it.
Well, we kinda' did, Goku's father being a great scientist'n all.
That was one minor line that doesn't even exist anymore. I'm talking entire story elements rewritten and a complete censoring of characters like Bulma.

Like the Red Ribbon Army and Lunch?

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:08 pm

NeptuneKai wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:
Rory wrote: Well, we kinda' did, Goku's father being a great scientist'n all.
That was one minor line that doesn't even exist anymore. I'm talking entire story elements rewritten and a complete censoring of characters like Bulma.
Like the Red Ribbon Army and Lunch?

What about Launch?

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:10 pm

onlyonelegend wrote:Toei accepted they fucked up DBZ and are now giving us DB Kai

It's scary that you actually believe this.

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:24 pm

It's hard to call FUNimation's dub "Dragon Ball Z". I agree that it's not as bad as the Arabic dub, but it's still not truly Dragon Ball. For it to be considered "Dragon Ball", it has to have two things: the video and the script. Music and voices are irrelevant because they're not in the comic. Other than the video (which or course is present in the dub), all that is needed is a script that is accurate to Toriyama's writing. FUNimation changed that, so their dub isn't truly "Dragon Ball".

Metalwario64 wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:
SparkyPantsMcGee wrote: That was one minor line that doesn't even exist anymore. I'm talking entire story elements rewritten and a complete censoring of characters like Bulma.
Like the Red Ribbon Army and Lunch?
What about Launch?

She doesn't exist in FUNimation's dub. Or... their original dub anyways.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:27 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:Or... their original dub anyways.

Exactly. That, like the "brilliant scientist," is a moot point now that it has been corrected.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:42 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:all that is needed is a script that is accurate to Toriyama's writing. FUNimation changed that, so their dub isn't truly "Dragon Ball".

Not quite. The anime is an adaptation of the comic, so it should be accurate to the anime's original script and music, at the very least.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:47 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:
NeptuneKai wrote:
Like the Red Ribbon Army and Lunch?
What about Launch?
She doesn't exist in FUNimation's dub. Or... their original dub anyways.

What? Call me crazy but Launch was in Dragonball so I have no idea what you are talking about.

The script is about 90% accurate to the Japanese version. I have seen both its not like if you only watch the dub you miss crucial elements that were present in the original. I came to this site knowing only elements from Dub, I started watching full episodes of the the Sub version only after joining(before that it was only a few movies my friend had on bootleg).

It's not like I missed anything. Its not like I had no clue what you guys were talking about in these threads. You send a Dub fan into this site he would have no trouble discussing anything Dragonball related.

The only thing I can attest to when it comes to missing information is most Dub only fans(that aren't on this site) won't see why the Dragonbox would be better than the Bricks, but that has nothing to do with Dragonball itself and is more of a technical thing.

These "I can't call Funimation's Dragonball Dragonball" comments are ridiculous to the point of being funny. Most of the points presented against Funimation have all been based off of the earlier days and have all been fixed. You don't have to like the dub, yes there were some changes but at its core it is still Dragonball. In fact compared to most other renditions I've seen its probably the best translations out there.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:53 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:These "I can't call Funimation's Dragonball Dragonball" comments are ridiculous to the point of being funny. Most of the points presented against Funimation have all been based off of the earlier days and have all been fixed. You don't have to like the dub, yes there were some changes but at its core it is still Dragonball. In fact compared to most other renditions I've seen its probably the best translations out there.

You're still focusing on nothing other than surface-level observations and generalizations about the storyline.

As far as I can tell, no-one's arguing against that.

What's actually being discussed is all of the minor nuances, minor dialogue changes, sometimes entire character personas... all of these smaller items that over time and in mass add up to a perceived larger "change" of the series into something that only resembles its original form.

C'mon, folks. If you're going to argue something, try to argue what's actually being discussed.

(Also, "shit stinks less" doesn't fly with me. I don't care if it's any better or worse than the Arabic dub or the Italian dub or the Cantonese dub or the Portuguese dub or what have you. What affects folks is what is presented in their own country; all others are curiosities.)

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:10 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
linkdude20002001 wrote:all that is needed is a script that is accurate to Toriyama's writing. FUNimation changed that, so their dub isn't truly "Dragon Ball".

Not quite. The anime is an adaptation of the comic, so it should be accurate to the anime's original script and music, at the very least.

But the anime doesn't change the script, does it? Plus, Dragon Ball Kai changed the music and it's still Dragon Ball. As long as the music's good and fits the series, it doesn't matter if it's changed. Okay, it DOES matter, but only because it SHOULDN'T be changed. I meant that changing the music doen't necessarily make it not Dragon Ball.

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:
linkdude20002001 wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote: What about Launch?
She doesn't exist in FUNimation's dub. Or... their original dub anyways.
What? Call me crazy but Launch was in Dragonball so I have no idea what you are talking about.

The script is about 90% accurate to the Japanese version. I have seen both its not like if you only watch the dub you miss crucial elements that were present in the original. I came to this site knowing only elements from Dub, I started watching full episodes of the the Sub version only after joining(before that it was only a few movies my friend had on bootleg).

It's not like I missed anything. Its not like I had no clue what you guys were talking about in these threads. You send a Dub fan into this site he would have no trouble discussing anything Dragonball related.

The only thing I can attest to when it comes to missing information is most Dub only fans(that aren't on this site) won't see why the Dragonbox would be better than the Bricks, but that has nothing to do with Dragonball itself and is more of a technical thing.

These "I can't call Funimation's Dragonball Dragonball" comments are ridiculous to the point of being funny. Most of the points presented against Funimation have all been based off of the earlier days and have all been fixed. You don't have to like the dub, yes there were some changes but at its core it is still Dragonball. In fact compared to most other renditions I've seen its probably the best translations out there.

Are you talking about Dragon Ball, or Dragon Ball Z?

And I'm not saying that fans who only watch the dub wouldn't know what's happening. I guess I shouldn't've said that FUNi's dub isn't Dragon Ball... I should've said "it's only half Dragon Ball". The visuals are still there, so of course people watching that are going to know what's going on, but the script is the other half. FUNimation may have fixed a few things when they re-dubbed the first 68 or so episodes, but they used the same script as they did before.

Also, the BEST translation would have to be the dub script for Dragon Ball (Not DBZ) and the first three movies (Though, maybe not anymore. I don't know if they changed the script for their re-dub).

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:16 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:The script is about 90% accurate to the Japanese version.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:20 pm

TripleRach wrote:even the likes of Sailor Moon and Cardcaptors had worse dubs, and they're from the same time period.

Sailor Moon's dub was worse than Dragon Ball Z's? I thought they were roughly the same, loosely translated scripts with a new musical score. And, subjectively speaking, I think Sailor Moon's is better because it lacks the DBZ dub's annoying machismo and actually has a lot of genuine charm.

And McGee, Launch wasn't present in the Dragon Ball Z dub at first; her two or three scenes from the Saiyan saga were taken out. Though I guess that's Ocean's fault rather than Funi's since they did the dub at first... I think. I've always had to wonder whether the dub's early approach of removing episodes for being too 'slow' or 'boring' had any real merit. I was one of the nine year old kids Funi mentioned in that famous quote of theirs when the Ocean dub started airing in September 1996, and I'd have really enjoyed the episode with Gohan and the robot.

And people says the Buu saga was translated better, but was it really? All I remember from comparing the sub to the dub was Piccolo's reaction to Gohan's Great Saiyaman outfit. In the original Piccolo was simply a bit flustered, in the dub he was a lot less subtle and outright insulting ('Gohan, I've got to be honest with you, that's the stupidest looking thing I've ever seen', or something like that). Not that big a deal if it's just an isolated incident, but I kind of doubt that it is. I always figured that the Buu saga episodes were less bad than the Freeza or Cell because Funi had come under heat from the angry fans of the original, but it was a pretty lukewarm, halfhearted effort.

Maybe I'm just picky, who knows. I didn't like the Dragon Ball dub either. The first three movies is the only English Dragon Ball that's worthwhile.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:25 pm

Dr. Casey wrote:Though I guess that's Ocean's fault rather than Funi's since they did the dub at first... I think.

No, no, no. Ocean Studios is just a voice cast. They are not and never were responsible for the actual production of the show. Other than Harmony Gold's early attempt, it always has been FUNimation themselves, from 1995 until today.

Dr. Casey · Post by **Dr. Casey** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:27 pm

Ah, I see. I've learned something new today.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 3:28 pm

We're still using the name "Launch"? That has got to be the dumbest name change.

The joke is lunch, lunch, luuuuunch! And now I've made myself hungry.

Yeah, I know it's a nitpick, but it bothers me so much. Like "season" sets with magically four more seasons of the dub than originally aired.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:17 pm

penguintruth wrote: This isn't an attack on anyone's character. I'm sure there are plenty of fine people who are fans of the English dub. But simply put, it's not DBZ. So therefore, yes, in a way, it does mean they are less fans of DBZ than I am.

It may not be an attack on their character but it still makes it personal to anyone who would fall under your so called "lesser fans" category. You can't really say something that asinine and elitist and try to dismiss it by saying "I'm not talking about you".