Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.
User avatar
Mewzard
I Live Here
Posts: 2009
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:02 pm
Location: Oklahoma
Contact:

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by Mewzard » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:11 pm

Bussani wrote:You won't lose body heat very quickly in a vacuum because there needs to be air for conduction/convection to take place. The lack of pressure shouldn't cause too much harm; even in humans it would mostly only cause some temporary swelling. The radiation and severe risk of sunburn are more concerning, but it really is the lack of air that gets you.
True, but we don't know how long a battle will take in space if it does happen. As for the pressure, people have had some serious problems with sudden pressure shifts, and even if you live, it can mess you up if you try to fight while doing it. Besides, with the lack of air, sore muscles won't be able to recover all that well during a fight.

As for radiation, if the fight moves closer to the Sun, its good for Superman and bad for Goku regardless.

As for the Vegeta and Nappa talking in space...yeah, that doesn't really work. Even Superman doesn't generally talk in space (lack of air for sound to travel through and all).

Besides, they said they wouldn't count stuff that directly contradicted the manga, and I really don't think Freeza kept bringing up Saiyans inability to survive in space if they could, in fact, survive. If they could have, why not just fly off world? Sneak aboard Freeza's ship while he's busy gloating? And even if Goku can briefly survive drifting and flying in space, fighting while holding your breath is many, many times harder than just holding your breath for a set period of time. And one punch to the gut hard enough to force a breath would not end well for the breathe-e.
RIDER KIIIIIIICK!

User avatar
TonyTheTiger
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1558
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 1:35 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by TonyTheTiger » Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:15 pm

Mewzard wrote:And before you mention the Boss Rabbit scene, remember, that was from a portion of the manga where people got shot through the head with bullets, and healed over the very next panel. The gag sections don't really work with the more realistic sections.
The issue with cartoon physics is a problem for these things and it's the main reason why Pre-Crisis Superman was so broken. For a while his stories were like slightly more serious Looney Tunes. Putting someone up against Pre-Crisis Superman is like putting them up against Bugs Bunny or the Road Runner. The universe contorts itself to make them win. I'm not quite sure if the Boss Rabbit stuff is the same thing but, even if it isn't and should be taken on its face, it was blatantly retconned on Namek. So either it's a gag scene that should be disregarded, or it's a legitimate power that was taken away later in the story.

User avatar
mysticboy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by mysticboy » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:05 am

Mewzard wrote:Besides, they said they wouldn't count stuff that directly contradicted the manga, and I really don't think Freeza kept bringing up Saiyans inability to survive in space if they could, in fact, survive. If they could have, why not just fly off world? Sneak aboard Freeza's ship while he's busy gloating? And even if Goku can briefly survive drifting and flying in space, fighting while holding your breath is many, many times harder than just holding your breath for a set period of time. And one punch to the gut hard enough to force a breath would not end well for the breathe-e.
Bardock was in space in the manga. King Vegeta and his men infiltrated Freeza's ship just before Bardock confronted him. And watch Screw Attack's Vegeta vs. Shadow Death Battle. Shadow teleports Vegeta to the moon, and Vegeta doesn't seem have any problems up there (here). He definitely wasn't holding his breath. So that tells me that Screw Attack doesn't think Saiyans surviving in space contradicts the manga. And I don't think it does either. I mean Freeza's a villain after all so, he kinda lies a lot.

User avatar
Bussani
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8041
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:35 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by Bussani » Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:05 am

mysticboy wrote:I mean Freeza's a villain after all so, he kinda lies a lot.
Kaio also said that only Freeza would be able to survive in space. I don't think he's a liar.
If TPP passes in your country it will be illegal for you to watch an imported DVD. Click here to learn more!

User avatar
DBZGTKOSDH
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 12401
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 7:45 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:18 am

I believe that Saiyans can survive in space, but only for a limited time. Simple, and nothing contradicts it. 8)
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

User avatar
mysticboy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:54 pm

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by mysticboy » Wed Dec 26, 2012 6:10 am

Bussani wrote:
mysticboy wrote:I mean Freeza's a villain after all so, he kinda lies a lot.
Kaio also said that only Freeza would be able to survive in space. I don't think he's a liar.
I'm saying Freeza's lying about Goku. But it's really like you said earlier, it depends on one's interpretation of "survive". I actually think Goku can survive in space like a human can survive in a desert. Like a human can survive for x amount of time in a desert before they're dehydrated, I think Goku can survive (even fight) in space before he needs some air (then he'll IT himself back to Earth). So yeah, space is the desert, Goku's a human, and Freeza's a cactus.

User avatar
Master Turbo
Newbie
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:17 am

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by Master Turbo » Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:58 am

Bussani wrote:You won't lose body heat very quickly in a vacuum because there needs to be air for conduction/convection to take place. The lack of pressure shouldn't cause too much harm; even in humans it would mostly only cause some temporary swelling. The radiation and severe risk of sunburn are more concerning, but it really is the lack of air that gets you.
Goku and co. don't instant travel through the layers of Earth instantly, not even Cell during filler space traveling scenes. Goku would lose a lot of body heat as he progress to through the layers due to sudden drop or rise in temperatures. Here's a real life quote that talks about the effects of outer space on Human "Vacuums are indeed lethal, under extremely low pressure air trapped in the lungs expands, tearing the tender gas-exchange tissues. Water in the soft tissues of your body vaporizes, causing gross swelling, though the tight seal of your skin would prevent you from actually bursting apart. Your eyes, likewise, would refrain from exploding, but continued escape of gas and water vapor leads to rapid cooling of the mouth and airways.

Water and dissolved gas in the blood forms bubbles in the major veins, which travel throughout the circulatory system and block blood flow. After about one minute circulation effectively stops. The lack of oxygen to the brain renders you unconscious in less than 15 seconds, eventually killing you. "When the pressure gets very low there is just not enough oxygen. That is really the first and most important concern," Buckey says. That's assuming if you were immediately dumped into outer space.
mysticboy wrote:Like I said before, they're taking stuff that didn't happen in the manga as well as things that did into account. Here's a scene of Vegeta and Nappa talking in space:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xnqtg0bt ... r_embedded

Goku should be fine.
I hope you realize those filler scenes don't make any sense when hey contradict each other, there are two different scenes showing Vegeta nearly drowning for a lack of air, the first being hiding underwater after stealing Freeza's dragon balls, the second time after Zarbon thrashed him duking him into water and filler goes out its way to show Goku incapable of handling space with a few key scenes. The first that comes to mind is Goku struggling to breath with Freeza laughing at him struggling to get his head the water. There's also the fact that even a SSJ can get sick just like any normal human can through biological means. Radiation in space is a lot more harsh than any normal illness you may require on Earth and Goku is no longer beneath the protective layer of the Ozone and such so he's getting bombarded with an insane amount of radiation. Goku has shown enough times to be vulnerable to cold temperatures in the manga and anime cold temperatures like him nearly freezing to death in Jingle village without proper clothing to endure the weather.

He's shown multiple times to be vulnerable to high temperatures such as fire, lava, and ect in the anime and movies (Gohan almost killed Broli with lava had he not formed a protective barrier around himself) and to be affected by heat in the same way a normal human would during different hot areas on earth or on other planets during the anime and he's shown he needing normal air by seemingly having a harder time to breath and function after running what might be a short period of time on Kami's look out compared to on Earth.
I seriously doubt Goku will be just fine, filler or not.

As for the topic, its difficult to compare Goku's speed to Superman because Toriyama doesn't give stated time and distance for Goku and friends that much and when he does it contradicts something before or after it considering he's basically inconsistent in displaying their feats of speed/strength levels. I guess the best we could do is use Goku from the Buu arc just before the ten year time skip at the end. The last known stated time and distance during the Buu arc for Gohan. Before we begin we have to figure out how much power Gohan lost from not training for the seven years. Folks' opinion on this vary, but for me I don't think he dropped any lower than 75% his original full power as a kid. Now do SSJ2 Majin Vegeta and Goku compare to kid SSJ2 Gohan from back then? Vegeta states Goku's full power as a SSJ2 exceeds Gohan's, but by how much? There's a quote is from Piccolo about Majin Veget's SSJ2 form at full power.

Piccolo: “He’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…”

That is pretty similar to the statement he said about Vegeta possibly surpassing Gohan during Early portion of the Artificial Humans arc affter he just beat Android 19. Later statements typically take precedence over previous ones and SSJ2 Majin Vegeta is stated marginally stronger than SSJ2 kid Gohan and Vegeta is equal to Goku's SSJ2 form so they both might be anywhere from 5-10% stronger than SSJ2 kid Gohan's power making them anywhere from 30-35% higher than teen SSJ2 Gohan. That's between a 1.4-1.466x stronger than teen SSJ2 Gohan which is more than enough difference to be considered far stronger than him. Base Gohan just a month before the 25th Budokai stated it would take him 20 minutes to travel from his home to school which was 621.3712 miles away.

So....Base Gohan would be about mach 2.449 taken that into account, SSJ would make him mach 122.45 and SSJ2 mach 244.9. SSJ2 Goku and Majin Vegeta are potentially mach 342.86-359.023. Assuming base Gotenk before the Rosat (Room of Spirit and Time) training is a mean estimate of Vegeta (Highest estimate) and Gohan's SSJ2 speed levels base Gotenks would be around mach 301.9615 so as a SSJ he would be able to cover 3192.319 mps. The Earth's circumference is 24,901.55 miles at the equator so it would take SSJ Gotenks about 7.8 second or so to make one full trip around the planet. Gotenks told Piccolo he flew around the Earth several times in the Japanese version and he's showing making about five trips in that one panel so it would take SSJ Gotenks 39 seconds to make five trips around the planet. Twice the time if we take the panel of him flying twice the Earth's circumference at face value which is more than enough time to do that. The only problem is this is more of a rough estimate, the speed could greatly increase or decrease depending where go Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, Goten, Trunks, and Gotenks rank against Gohan as the measuring stick.

rereboy
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10262
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by rereboy » Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:03 am

Goku's physical and ki resistance is more than enough to be fine in space. Its the lack oxygen that is the problem.

User avatar
Puto
I Live Here
Posts: 2668
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Portugal, Oeiras

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by Puto » Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:38 am

mysticboy wrote:I mean Freeza's a villain after all so, he kinda lies a lot.
Ugh, everybody keeps interpreting Freeza's line in this unshakeable ‘you cannot survive out there’ way. He basically says ‘I can survive in outer space, but I don't know if a monkey like you can’. People always interprete this as ‘I can survive in space and you can't’, but that's not what he says.
Blue wrote:I love how Season 2 is so off color even the box managed to be so.

User avatar
Master Turbo
Newbie
Posts: 39
Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 11:17 am

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by Master Turbo » Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:43 pm

rereboy wrote:Goku's physical and ki resistance is more than enough to be fine in space. Its the lack oxygen that is the problem.
Am I be ignored or something? There are enough scenes in the manga that shows that's not the case and plenty in the anime and movies as well. Same with the Oxygen thing as well. Goku with a battle power possibly in the low hundreds nearly froze to death during the Red Ribbon arc and Kuririn during when Artificial Humans act was bothered by the cold weather just like a normal human would be and he has fine control over his ki manipulation and physical and ki resistance in regards to his battle power is possibly in the hundred thousands if not low millions. That means Kuririn is potentially thousands to tens of thousand times stronger than Goku back then during the Red Ribbon, yet it appears simply getting stronger or having much higher ki doesn't chang their vulnerability to extreme temperatures.
Puto wrote:Ugh, everybody keeps interpreting Freeza's line in this unshakeable ‘you cannot survive out there’ way. He basically says ‘I can survive in outer space, but I don't know if a monkey like you can’. People always interprete this as ‘I can survive in space and you can't’, but that's not what he says.
To be fair even North Kaio stated the same thing and Vegeta was right there during all of this. if Saiyajin like Goku and him could survive in space don't you think he would have mentioned it in the manga at least if they were simply wrong about that kind of thing instead of suggesting an alternative? Not to mention the official guide books Daizenshuu also state that Broli and his dad survive the rigors of space by use of his barrier where Saiyajin can't survive so what appears to be the problem here?

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13045
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:03 pm

Goku crosses Namek in seconds. The description says the battle was at the other side of Namek. I also don't believe it took Gohan 20 minutes to get their if he went all out. He didn't seem tired afterwards.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

rereboy
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10262
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2009 8:42 pm

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by rereboy » Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:05 pm

Master Turbo wrote:
rereboy wrote:Goku's physical and ki resistance is more than enough to be fine in space. Its the lack oxygen that is the problem.
Am I be ignored or something?
I'm sorry, I thought that the mere notion that a real human in real life can survive under a minute in space and that the fact that what kills him first in real life is the lack of oxygen and not something else, would be enough for anyone to understand that Goku, who is almost incomprehensibly stronger and resistant than a mere real human, would be fine in space as long as he stayed there for a limited time and what would really trouble him would be the lack of oxygen more than anything else (just like a real human).

I don't think anyone is saying that Goku wouldn't have more trouble in space than Superman, so I don't really understand what your point is.

For the point of Goku facing off Superman, if they end up fighting in space, Goku will of course have more trouble than he would on Earth and he would only be able to fight for a limited time, but since he can teleport, he can immediately return to Earth (or other planet) if he is in trouble and he can immediately return to where Superman is in space, so being in space isn't that big of a advantage to Superman.

User avatar
dbzfan7
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13045
Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:55 am
Location: Earth
Contact:

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by dbzfan7 » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:03 pm

I personally say Saiyans can only survive in Space for a limited time. They can last a while, but will eventually suffocate. Superman has the same problem but can last longer in space. I remember Green Lantern helping him out in space.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!

User avatar
TonyTheTiger
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1558
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 1:35 pm
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by TonyTheTiger » Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:15 pm

http://www.screwattack.com/news/researc ... s-superman

This was put up a while ago but I just noticed it now. Very nice stuff.

User avatar
Bussani
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8041
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:35 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by Bussani » Thu Dec 27, 2012 1:59 am

Master Turbo wrote:Goku and co. don't instant travel through the layers of Earth instantly, not even Cell during filler space traveling scenes. Goku would lose a lot of body heat as he progress to through the layers due to sudden drop or rise in temperatures.
That's true. It seems strange,but it's leaving the Earth would be the hard part when it comes to temperature.
Here's a real life quote that talks about the effects of outer space on Human "Vacuums are indeed lethal, under extremely low pressure air trapped in the lungs expands, tearing the tender gas-exchange tissues. Water in the soft tissues of your body vaporizes, causing gross swelling, though the tight seal of your skin would prevent you from actually bursting apart. Your eyes, likewise, would refrain from exploding, but continued escape of gas and water vapor leads to rapid cooling of the mouth and airways.
I talked a bit about that in another thread. The reason I don't usually mention the part about air trapped in the lungs is that it's only a problem if you try to hold your breath. In hypothetical situations, I've always asked if Saiyan lungs were powerful enough to avoid the problem. We are talking about people who can walk around in hundreds of times Earth's gravity with their hearts still pumping blood to their brains, after all.
Water and dissolved gas in the blood forms bubbles in the major veins, which travel throughout the circulatory system and block blood flow. After about one minute circulation effectively stops. The lack of oxygen to the brain renders you unconscious in less than 15 seconds, eventually killing you. "When the pressure gets very low there is just not enough oxygen. That is really the first and most important concern," Buckey says. That's assuming if you were immediately dumped into outer space.
Eh, you've got me there. I oversimplified things too much since, in humans at least, oxygen has stopped reaching the brain way before ebullism becomes a problem (thus "it's the lack of air that gets you"). But would it be the same for Saiyans? During experiments, humans have lasted for hours in vacuum chambers just by wearing skin-tight suits. Goku's skin is undoubtedly stronger than a human's, so it's hard to say what the effect on his body would be.
If TPP passes in your country it will be illegal for you to watch an imported DVD. Click here to learn more!

GS7X7
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1109
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:03 pm

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by GS7X7 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:16 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:I personally say Saiyans can only survive in Space for a limited time. They can last a while, but will eventually suffocate. Superman has the same problem but can last longer in space. I remember Green Lantern helping him out in space.

How the heck did Brolly survive anyway?

As for Goku and Supes, Goku can just teleport himself to a senzu bean or grab some kryptonite if in trouble, or teleport Supes to some kryptonite so, I'd give it to him. (and I don't know how powerful Supes is, but SSJ 3 should be more than enough to last a while with him)
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)

Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"

User avatar
Ringworm128
Banned
Posts: 2976
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:27 am

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by Ringworm128 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:20 pm

I'm guessing it will be uploaded on the 31st or 1st.

User avatar
TheMightyOzaru
Banned
Posts: 6255
Joined: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:50 pm
Location: Capsule Corp

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Dec 27, 2012 8:29 pm

Umm I just noticed something... Superman can lift 200,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons and its said that this is 3 times his record before he ran into that radioactive monster. If that is the case and it is 3x his record then yes 66,600,000,000,000,000,000 would be around his original limit. Now going off of the video analysis for Superman he moved Earth out of the suns orbit and like it says in the analysis the amount of force required to move the Earth out of orbit by 1% would be 1,000x less than the objects actual weight. Since the Earth weighs 6,600,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons Superman would ACTUALLY have to be moving 6,600,000,000,000,000,000 tons NOT 66,600,000,000,000,000,000. So in other words validity not confirmed Wiz -_-. Inconsistencies are still present regardless of lack of Solar Energy.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
Youtube channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ThePrinceOfSaiyajins
My 3DS Friend Code:
2707-1669-7946

GS7X7
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1109
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:03 pm

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by GS7X7 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:11 pm

Which versions of Goku and Supes do we get? GT SSJ 4 Goku and Pre-Crisis crazy-powers Supes?

I never really read oldschool Superman but I've heard a lot of people claim Supes is more or less a god that can juggle planets easily.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)

Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"

User avatar
Puto
I Live Here
Posts: 2668
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:40 am
Location: Portugal, Oeiras

Re: Death Battle! Goku VS Superman Disscussion Thread

Post by Puto » Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:21 pm

Post-Crisis Superman vs GT SS4 Gokū.
Blue wrote:I love how Season 2 is so off color even the box managed to be so.

Post Reply