The Newest Batch of Toriyama Tidbits...

[TheGmGoken]

Genocidal, racist rulers on a conquest. They're pretty similar.

Freeza also blame other for his failures

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

Freeza is not "space Hitler".

I don't see how he's not. Obviously there are some disparities involving their methods of conquest but calling him "Hitler in Space" gets the idea across that he's an evil, tyrannical, ruler.

"Evil tyrant" =/= Hitler. They're next to nothing alike, aside from stock villainous traits you'll find in EVERY "evil overlord" type.

I suppose targeting a specific social sub group in his circle with demeaning slurs, one-sided disgust,fear of them debunking him and lusting for the exclusive torture of them for being nothing but "inferior" to himself mentally and physically among millions of other weaker life forms isnt similar?

[RandomGuy96]

Genocidal, racist rulers on a conquest. They're pretty similar.

Only in the most superficial ways. A fairly huge difference is that Freeza is just a petty thug running a land shark business for personal monetary gain, while Hitler was an ideologically motivated dictator. They're next to nothing alike. You could compare him to any real-world dictator and get about as many similarities, which is why it bugs me so much when people declare ANY fictional evil overlord character "the Hitler of X".

Should Freeza's genocidal tendencies be brought up?

Not exactly unique to Hitler, and extremely different in intention, execution, and scale.

I suppose targeting a specific social sub group in his circle with demeaning slurs, one-sided disgust,fear of them debunking him and lusting for the exclusive torture of them for being nothing but "inferior" to himself mentally and physically among millions of other weaker life forms isnt similar?

Nope. if you think that's all it takes, you may as well compare him to tons of other dictators. Oh, and there are several major differences, which you would notice if you didn't just glance over them and instead try to compare them in the most superficial ways.

[Zephyr]

Still gets the overall point of "powerful, evil, genocidal, prejudiced maniac" across better than "Space Stalin", "Space Mao", or "Space Mussolini" would, now doesn't it?

[RandomGuy96]

Still gets the overall point of "powerful, evil, genocidal, prejudiced maniac" across better than "Space Stalin", "Space Mao", or "Space Mussolini" would, now doesn't it?

Or you could just NOT say "Space X" when the comparison doesn't actually hold up. He's just a thug/bandit/Mafia type who steals things with his mercenary army and either keeps them or sells them.

[Marco Polo]

I agree with RandomGuy96. Freeza is NOTHING like an organized, imperialistic monarch. He's more of a crime lord or pirate boss (it's no coincidence that his organization doesn't have a name). If anything he is Space Blackbeard.

[Mr.Judge]

Only in the most superficial ways. A fairly huge difference is that Freeza is just a petty thug running a land shark business for personal monetary gain, while Hitler was an ideologically motivated dictator. They're next to nothing alike. You could compare him to any real-world dictator and get about as many similarities, which is why it bugs me so much when people declare ANY fictional evil overlord character "the Hitler of X".

Good Point.

Spoiler:

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

As much as it seemed the bit about Android 16 didnt make sense as called a failure, I suppose he is in matter of being a tool to kill goku, not in creating an artifical human resembling his son. He was made gentle to avoid being destroyed, though seemingly out of Gero's character unless it was before he died. Maybe Gero had plans for developing 16 before goku came along and destroyed the R.R.A - but programmed #16 to exsterminate Goku at the same time, because Dr. Gero knew that Goku is not a threat for #16. It made perfet sense, since 16 would avoid any fight that was not against goku (Also keep in mind that 16 was not ready when he was unleashed by his fellow androids.)

[Kaboom]

Anyone else hope Toriyama gives a half-decent answer in a future Q&A to the "how does Ultimate Gohan's power work now, and can he still use or get anything out of Super Saiyan" conundrum? Even a half-assed answer from Toriyama would be preferable to all the different conflicting and unexplained angles to it we have now.

[RandomGuy96]

Anyone else hope Toriyama gives a half-decent answer in a future Q&A to the "how does Ultimate Gohan's power work now, and can he still use or get anything out of Super Saiyan" conundrum? Even a half-assed answer from Toriyama would be preferable to all the different conflicting and unexplained angles to it we have now.

No, because it'd be stupid and unnecessarily convoluted.

[Blade]

Anyone else hope Toriyama gives a half-decent answer in a future Q&A to the "how does Ultimate Gohan's power work now, and can he still use or get anything out of Super Saiyan" conundrum? Even a half-assed answer from Toriyama would be preferable to all the different conflicting and unexplained angles to it we have now.

No, because it'd be stupid and unnecessarily convoluted.

I disagree, I think if he were to answer the question - he'd probably give the most simplest explanation possible, either through being able to remember the previous state of affairs or just simply putting two and two together.

I agree with Kaboom, though, as no matter what response he gives, it has to be better than the information we already have, which is incredibly contradictory. I think the issue could do with being cleaned up one way or the other, even if it is just a case of Toriyama rounding up to the nearest answer.

[dbgtFO]

I'd rather he cleared up the strength relationship of Goku, Gotenks and Gohan, just to know the official line as it is today.
I don't care, if he has to resort to saying "Well Goku might have said Super Buu was stronger than him, but that was just his attempt at being funny, lol!"
I also would have cleared up Gohan vs Dabra, but at least getting a proper explanation on how Gohan's new power works in relation to Super Saiyan is better than all that meaningless crap we've gotten so far.

[Cetra]

I'd rather he cleared up the strength relationship of Goku, Gotenks and Gohan, just to know the official line as it is today.
I don't care, if he has to resort to saying "Well Goku might have said Super Buu was stronger than him, but that was just his attempt at being funny, lol!"
I also would have cleared up Gohan vs Dabra, but at least getting a proper explanation on how Gohan's new power works in relation to Super Saiyan is better than all that meaningless crap we've gotten so far.

As if he would care about something like that. And Goku says multiple times crap about his strength and then suddenly plays his joker - and I don't mean another person - to overwhelm the enemy so problem solved.

Anyone else hope Toriyama gives a half-decent answer in a future Q&A to the "how does Ultimate Gohan's power work now, and can he still use or get anything out of Super Saiyan" conundrum? Even a half-assed answer from Toriyama would be preferable to all the different conflicting and unexplained angles to it we have now.

Goku in the Boo Saga even asked if they shall fuse as Super-Saiyajins. And yes, the question would be weird.

Weird fanboy questions:

"Is it right that you said Gohan is the strongest unfused character in the Boo Saga (even though that comment alone sounds so ridiculously unrealisticly worded)?"
"Did you really say Dragon Ball Galaxy Tours/Grand Tour is not canonical (even though you don't care about the concept of canonicity)?"
"Is it true that Dragon Ball gets new episodes (just because every random fanboy says you have said that)?"
"Blah"

[dbgtFO]

I'd rather he cleared up the strength relationship of Goku, Gotenks and Gohan, just to know the official line as it is today.
I don't care, if he has to resort to saying "Well Goku might have said Super Buu was stronger than him, but that was just his attempt at being funny, lol!"
I also would have cleared up Gohan vs Dabra, but at least getting a proper explanation on how Gohan's new power works in relation to Super Saiyan is better than all that meaningless crap we've gotten so far.

As if he would care about something like that. And Goku says multiple times crap about his strength and then suddenly plays his joker - and I don't mean another person - to overwhelm the enemy so problem solved.

I realize fully he wouldn't care, still I'd like to know or at least see him faced with the question, as I naturally question statements, that aren't really corroborated by anything, like Daizenshuu 7 claiming Gotenks first managed to surpass Vegeta in the RoSaT, Super Saiyan 2 makes you this strong etc..
It'd be nice to know, if such information actually came from Toriyama rather than getting to know how much he is tired of writing Dragon Ball etc.

It's nice that Ooishi seems to ask more in-universe questions, but it's still only scraping the surface and providing miscellanous background info instead of actually going in depth with the story and explaining why certain things are the way they are, which is what I really care about.
Even then is asking why Gohan seemed to only be using Super Saiyan against Dabra and Buu really some stupid fanboy question?
I think it's a valid question and it would be interesting to hear the answer as Toriyama has previously said, he'd simplify Things, if they weren't clear enough, this could be one of those cases.

[Cetra]

Asking him today would pretty surely not result in what answer he would have given 20 years ago as he cannot remember so many details. That means, if he answers you, then you would get an explanation of how it is now but not how it was originally, probably.

Also, my answer was not directed at your Gohan vs Dabra thing but the strength debate. The rest was quoted without intention, meaning and answer.

[Zephyr]

I wouldn't want Toriyama to give answers on any polarizing subjects like that. He would give an answer, arbitrarily, without considering the logic behind both sides.

Only if he were to hear, understand, and ruminate over the logic behind each and every point, after he re-reads his own manga a few more times, would I trust him to make an educated final judgment on such matters, that would satisfactorily put said debate(s) to rest.

And, well, that's never gonna happen.

[dbgtFO]

You are both probably right about that.
On some level it's just annoying that we may never know, if certain Daizenshuu/Chozenshuu statements were errors, bullshit or "facts" coming directly from Toriyama at the time.

[SingleFringe&Sparks]

I agree with Kaboom, though, as no matter what response he gives, it has to be better than the information we already have, which is incredibly contradictory. I think the issue could do with being cleaned up one way or the other, even if it is just a case of Toriyama rounding up to the nearest answer.

Theres too likely a chance that what he say would destroy even the former aspect of it that did make sense, if me makes up an idea on the spot, it will have to be canon even if it doesnt logically work.

My impression on the Kai-Unlock ability now with BOG is that it works the same way as it did in Budokai 2/3 where he can do either or: unlock his potential directly without powering up or go SSJ (the easiest form) if necessary (which shouldnt be) but knowing AT, he'd probably say something like he can stack them if he wants to or use the Kai ability even as a SSJ which would just be too ridiculous.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So, I have a theory to fix the Kaioshin plot-hole!

Toriyama says that there are 3 Kaioshin that work in shifts. The manga shows that there are 5, and they are divided like the Kaio. So, which one is correct? Both, actually.

Kaioshin says to Rou Kaioshin that in his era, there were 5 Kaioshin. Why would a Kaioshin inform another about their numbers? Shouldn't he know already? And why would he say that there were 5 specifically in his era? My theory is that it was only in Kaioshin's generation that there were 5 Kaioshin, while normally, there are 3:

The Kaioshin are born from the World Tree. Usually, there are 3 fruits per generation, but in the latest era, there happened to be 5 fruits. So, because they were too many to work in shifts, they went with an alternative, and used the Kaio system to to balance things.

What do you think?

[RandomGuy96]

To quote a certain well known internet personality: "...Nah, they just fucked up".