GT or Super? Which one is the best?

[SaiyanGod117]

I'm unsure what exactly what you are trying to point out with those clips.

Do you watch Super?

[ABED]

I'm unsure what exactly what you are trying to point out with those clips.

Do you watch Super?

I will when the Blu Rays are released.

[PsionicWarrior]

I'm unsure what exactly what you are trying to point out with those clips.

Do you watch Super?

I will when the Blu Rays are released.

Fair warning the first episodes are really crap but it gets better with time, personally I think it really starts to kick off with the U6 Tournament/Champa Arc and then it only keeps getting better as it goes, right now I think it's fantastic, but god the start of these series were horrible, don't let it discourage you.
Although is possible they will correct and fix some stuff for the Blu Rays.

[Lord Beerus]

Do you watch Super?

I will when the Blu Rays are released.

Fair warning the first episodes are really crap but it gets better with time, personally I think it really starts to kick off with the U6 Tournament/Champa Arc and then it only keeps getting better as it goes, right now I think it's fantastic, but god the start of these series were horrible, don't let it discourage you.
Although is possible they will correct and fix some stuff for the Blu Rays.

The BOG retelling is actually fine and serviceable, minus Episode 5, which in itself got a face-lift in the BD and DVD release. And the filler episodes between and after BOG and ROF are quite entertaining and serviceable. It's from Episode 19 - 26 that things go to shit. Boy do things go to shit. But from that point on the show gets much better, with the occasional sub par episode.

[PsionicWarrior]

The BOG retelling is actually fine and serviceable, minus Episode 5, which in itself got a face-lift in the BD and DVD release. And the filler episodes between and after BOG and ROF are quite entertaining and serviceable. It's from Episode 19 - 26 that things go to shit. Boy do things go to shit. But from that point on the show gets much better, with the occasional sub par episode.

Meh, BoG movie is largely superior than the retelling IMO and the ROF had too many missed opportunities, but yes some good moments here and there.
Anyway, many aspects of these arcs are plain bad compared to the immense jump in quality we had in the later ones.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I like both retellings more than the movies.

[Lord Beerus]

I like both retellings more than the movies.

You don't have to hide this opinion. No on will shame you for it.

[hectorgf]

Dragon Ball Super is bad in every single topic: it's bad writing, all the characters were flanderized, the worst animation/direction I've ever seen, it's just..Awful...

I don't see how everyone is flanderized more now than in GT. The fact that they barely did anything with the original cast like Gohan, Piccolo, Buu, Goten, Yamcha/Tien were completely absent, and Vegeta did nothing for most of it, I'd say it handled the characters worse.

Also, the animation of Super improved dramatically at the start of the Zamasu arc and continued to get better from there.

Well, the fact that the majority part of them didn't show on the series really contributes to this lack of flanderization. But I think it's better to don't show the characters than show them so flanderized.

And I won't be unfair, kid Goku from GT is almost the same thing as Super's Goku, although when he is in super saiyan 4 form, he acts like the original Goku, so it's already one pass ahead from Super. While in Super, he is exactly the same thing he is in Dragon Ball Z Abridged (they won't need to make any dialogues for Goku when Dragon Ball Super Abridged starts)

I think I can't remember just one moment of Vegeta that I think he wouldn't act like that anymore. When he challenges Goku after that pathetic tournament, and he says that that day he would beat Goku. This rivalry was already concluded in Buu saga. It was the end of Vegeta's arc of character development, but I forgive this part because when Goku says that he is too hungry to fight, Vegeta doesn't be angry, he just smiles.
and shortly after, he acts just like he was meant to do: he asks Goku to fuse. HE. VEGETA. He doesn't act like a tsundere like in Super, he knew that the only way to defeat Li Sheng Long was through this way.

In Super, he wasn't just flanderized, he also was regressed. In episode 2 and the last one (91?) he STILL has this rivalry feeling with Goku. He is like a mix between himself in the Cell Saga (''the bad boy guy") and the Boo Saga (the "father side" but in a way extremely exaggerated and not organic).

*sorry for the bad English, it's not my native language*

[hectorgf]

...the worst animation/direction I've ever seen, it's just..Awful...

Let's be fair, Super's direction from episode to episode is usually on-point. It's only when you zoom out and look at each arc that it seems to suffer. Also, while it's not consistently good, Super has provided some of the greatest cuts the show has ever had.

I don't disagree. Naotoshi Shidas's scenes are really the best of the entire franchise. But there aren't so many scenes as you think, I would say it wouldn't compose even 10% of the whole animation of Super.

Just like Super has the highest animation points of the entire franchise, it also has the worst points of the entire franchise, and there's LOT more bad animation than good animation.
And, no, you don't need to pause and zoom out to notice that the animation sucks. the whole sequence of a scene, the key frames, the in between, all of them are awful or a little ugly. Even the nowadays episodes aren't good, it's just good for Super's standards, but speaking in anime-media as a whole, it's not even good.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

I don't disagree. Naotoshi Shidas's scenes are really the best of the entire franchise. But there aren't so many scenes as you think, I would say it wouldn't compose even 10% of the whole animation of Super.

Just like Super has the highest animation points of the entire franchise, it also has the worst points of the entire franchise, and there's LOT more bad animation than good animation.

Not really. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Super has given us both the best and worst of Dragon Ball so far. I don't even think it's debatable. However, you seem to be misremembering how many poor cuts of animation there actually are. The only bad cuts that DBS have given us were in episode 5, two or three episodes from the RoF arc, and episodes 33, 41, and 62. Whereas we've had about 10 episodes that I can remember off the top of my head with notably good cuts. Overwhelmingly, Super's animation is just meh. Serviceable movement, almost no movement (See: Most of the U6 Tournament), or more recently, a general lack of interesting choreography. However, since the FT Arc, it's almost always good when it needs to be.

[Cipher]

I like both retellings more than the movies.

You don't have to hide this opinion. No on will shame you for it.

Wrong. I will.

[PsionicWarrior]

And, no, you don't need to pause and zoom out to notice that the animation sucks. the whole sequence of a scene, the key frames, the in between, all of them are awful or a little ugly. Even the nowadays episodes aren't good, it's just good for Super's standards, but speaking in anime-media as a whole, it's not even good.

Really?
I don't know man, looks pretty great to me and I'm a sucker for the fights in DB.

[Kokonoe]

Beerus is better in Super, but Frieza movie is better IMO.

[hectorgf]

I don't disagree. Naotoshi Shidas's scenes are really the best of the entire franchise. But there aren't so many scenes as you think, I would say it wouldn't compose even 10% of the whole animation of Super.

Just like Super has the highest animation points of the entire franchise, it also has the worst points of the entire franchise, and there's LOT more bad animation than good animation.

Not really. Don't get me wrong, I agree that Super has given us both the best and worst of Dragon Ball so far. I don't even think it's debatable. However, you seem to be misremembering how many poor cuts of animation there actually are. The only bad cuts that DBS have given us were in episode 5, two or three episodes from the RoF arc, and episodes 33, 41, and 62. Whereas we've had about 10 episodes that I can remember off the top of my head with notably good cuts. Overwhelmingly, Super's animation is just meh. Serviceable movement, almost no movement (See: Most of the U6 Tournament), or more recently, a general lack of interesting choreography. However, since the FT Arc, it's almost always good when it needs to be.

Ok, now I REALLY disagree hahaha.
I think EVERY single episode of Super has a bad or meh animation (mainly bad). Even episodes that had good fight sequences (that just longs for about 2 minutes kek) has really bad frames, they fail even in making the statics ones. I think that the only episodes that weren't bad or meh, but "okay" in a whole was episode 13, and the one that Vegetto appears. Again, These episodes are AMAZING for Super's standards (or Toei's standards), but comparing it to the original series (that wasn't that good either), GT and others on-going animes like Hunter x Hunter, then it's not that good.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Ok, now I REALLY disagree hahaha.
I think EVERY single episode of Super has a bad or meh animation (mainly bad). Even episodes that had good fight sequences (that just longs for about 2 minutes kek) has really bad frames, they fail even in making the statics ones. I think that the only episodes that weren't bad or meh, but "okay" in a whole was episode 13, and the one that Vegetto appears. Again, These episodes are AMAZING for Super's standards (or Toei's standards), but comparing it to the original series (that wasn't that good either), GT and others on-going animes like Hunter x Hunter, then it's not that good.

I really wasn't giving my opinion, but my objective analysis of the episodes. Why don't you give some examples? I don't even know what your standards are right now.

[hectorgf]

Ok, now I REALLY disagree hahaha.
I think EVERY single episode of Super has a bad or meh animation (mainly bad). Even episodes that had good fight sequences (that just longs for about 2 minutes kek) has really bad frames, they fail even in making the statics ones. I think that the only episodes that weren't bad or meh, but "okay" in a whole was episode 13, and the one that Vegetto appears. Again, These episodes are AMAZING for Super's standards (or Toei's standards), but comparing it to the original series (that wasn't that good either), GT and others on-going animes like Hunter x Hunter, then it's not that good.

I really wasn't giving my opinion, but my objective analysis of the episodes. Why don't you give some examples? I don't even know what your standards are right now.

Eer...Okay...But I still disagree with your objective analysis :v

Okay, do you want some examples of what? My standards in general? Examples of bad animation?

[hectorgf]

Take the episode 93 of Hunter x Hunter, it's almost on the episode 100, it's an on-going anime, and it's one episode that isn't that important, and it's kind of a casual (but necessary) episode, and it still has a very consistent animation (like almost every single episode of the series) and the characters doesn't look out of model.

If you take episode 23 of Super shows the beginning of the fight with Freeza, as well as the episode 85 of Dragon Ball Z. The context is the same: the beginning of the most expected battle of the arc, and the difference is just...OVERWHELMING. While episode 23 is the worst animated episode of the franchise (and the worst animated episode I've ever seen in my life), episode 85 has a really powerful beginning.

[GreatSaiyaJeff]

The only real problem I have for BOG retelling (besides the fight needed to end an episode sooner), is the development Goku got in the movie just dissapeared. I like the movie that he didn't like that he got the powers becuase he didn't earn them He didn't train or attain it on his own and he was frusterated because of that. In the show and manga, he seems to accept it and doesn't have a problem with it.

[hectorgf]

The only real problem I have for BOG retelling (besides the fight needed to end an episode sooner), is the development Goku got in the movie just dissapeared. I like the movie that he didn't like that he got the powers becuase he didn't earn them He didn't train or attain it on his own and he was frusterated because of that. In the show and manga, he seems to accept it and doesn't have a problem with it.

EXACTLY! That was when the flanderization started. I really felt that I was watching Goku while watching BoG (I think Goku wouldn't stop and watch his friends getting the ass kicked to think about a strategy, though).

But this isn't the only problem. The pacing of BoG arc is really bad. Even the movie I think it could be a little faster, because the Pilaf's scenes were really unnecessary, and then they turn a movie with 90 minutes of time into 14 episodes...Really? I mean, if you really wanted to make a good pacing for this arc, it should have ended in episode 6.

The direction of the fight of Goku vs Beerus had a really poor writing. They used the same resource of making Goku seems defeated and then going back to fight 3 TIMES...In the middle of it, the battle was already trivialized, there wasn't tension anymore, I won't even talk about that bullshit of Beerus saying that he wasn't fighting serious, but then he started to use all his power, but actually, he wasn't and all these blabberings.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

The only real problem I have for BOG retelling (besides the fight needed to end an episode sooner), is the development Goku got in the movie just disappeared. I like the movie that he didn't like that he got the powers because he didn't earn them He didn't train or attain it on his own and he was frustrated because of that. In the show and manga, he seems to accept it and doesn't have a problem with it.

Eh, I didn't think there was real, substantial development there anyway. It was cool to have, but nothing game-changing. While there are many other things about the arc that are a downgrade as well (No Shida, underwhelming pregnancy reveal, no Mai-Trunks gags, etc.), I've found that during my rewatches of either movie/retellings, I'm consistently unimpressed by the movies in comparison everything other than visual consistency and a few good cuts of animation. On the whole, I enjoy the settings, backgrounds, storyboards, scripts, etc. of the anime far more impressive despite their other failings. In fact, the only place I can think of off the top of my head where I preferred a movie storyboard was Beerus vs. SS3 Goku (Though realistically, the episode 5 we got probably isn't what was on the actual storyboards, assuming those were even done thoroughly enough to tell). As if I needed another reason, the beautiful episode 4 is icing on the cake for the series.

Alright, I've said my goodbyes. Everyone take turns crucifying me now.