Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

The levels are fine, he's on his right to ignore Base Saiyans < Freeza. But I do agree that Trunks should be >= the future androids.

I also love that you put Piccolo almost equal to Vegeta and Trunks at the CG, what made you change your mind Vic?

The kids << Piccolo and Gohan?

[Victorious]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high. Gohan at 500 Quadrillion!?

Dude,

Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ2 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks > base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks [pre] > SSJ3 Goku

And the difference between base Gotenks post and SSJ Gotenks pre is pretty huge, at least multifold IMO.


So we're talking about Gohan being insanely powerful, Goku is a little bug on the windshield to him. I think Gohan is as powerful as he can ever get with that power up he had. It's a max out power up and absolutely unreachable for any other individual in the series.


Anyway, if you think you my levels are too high than ask me about a particular gap [since the levels are just a build up of gaps] and i'll explain the gap to you and my logic behind it.

[Victorious]

The levels are fine, he's on his right to ignore Base Saiyans < Freeza. But I do agree that Trunks should be >= the future androids.

I also love that you put Piccolo almost equal to Vegeta and Trunks at the CG, what made you change your mind Vic?

The kids << Piccolo and Gohan?

The base kids showed the ability to evenly match Android #18 so of course i'm gonna ignore some non canon TOEi crud like BOG which has nonsense like Vegeta having a rage boost and Ultimate Gohan having SSJ.

I have Kamiccolo 80% of Vegeta at the Cell games...that's really not that close. The same gap as I had between them in the Android saga. 80% is still a butt whipping type of gap really. I could see Kamiccolo getting up to 85% or so of Vegeta. But based on Cell's comment about who can keep up with the Cell Juniors I think there's no way Kamiccolo could be 90% of Trunks/Vegeta though.

[Victorious]

Yeah, wow. Those levels are just... wow. A few don't even make sense (outside of their size) like base Future Trunks being at 3 billion when he returns home after the Cell games, and yet still being required to use Super Saiyan to defeat 17 and 18 who are in the 400 millions....

He also blew away 1st form Cell in base with a generic ki shout. That's a type of feat I can't think anyone doing other than Goku vs Ginyus and he had a huge gap on them.

But anyway Future Trunks is a guy that does not BS around, so I'd figure he'd go full power no matter what. Future Trunks never toys with opponents.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high. Gohan at 500 Quadrillion!?

base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks [pre] > SSJ3 Goku

Bull shit.

So we're talking about Gohan being insanely powerful, Goku is a little bug on the windshield to him. I think Gohan is as powerful as he can ever get with that power up he had. It's a max out power up and absolutely unreachable for any other individual in the series.

That's great, Gohan can be super strong, I don't care about that. What I think is absurd is the number itself. I should also point out that Goku is most likely weaker than Freeza in his base form according to Beers. Goku didn't dispute it and Beers should know what he's talking about.

[Victorious]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too high. Gohan at 500 Quadrillion!?

base Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks [pre] > SSJ3 Goku

Bull shit.

So we're talking about Gohan being insanely powerful, Goku is a little bug on the windshield to him. I think Gohan is as powerful as he can ever get with that power up he had. It's a max out power up and absolutely unreachable for any other individual in the series.

That's great, Gohan can be super strong, I don't care about that. What I think is absurd is the number itself. I should also point out that Goku is most likely weaker than Freeza in his base form according to Beers. Goku didn't dispute it and Beers should know what he's talking about.

I don't really care what movie characters say, Cooler said base Goku was stronger than Freeza so movies don't really tell us much. Beers was asleep for millions of years, Cooler was Freeza's brother.

Bull shit.

Pretty much implied by Piccolo.


Chapter: 480 (DBZ 286), P13.2-3
Piccolo: “Alright, your fight with Majin Boo is 1 day from now! Until then, train as much as you can! If you get even a little bit stronger, it will be more effective when you perform Fusion. Got that, you miserable little punks?!”

Piccolo possibly seems to imply here that a small increase for the kids is a large increase for Gotenks (which explains a lot) so we know right off the bat that he expects them to increase greatly in the RoSaT.


Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P7.5
Context: as Gotenks is about to fight Boo
Piccolo: “Pl-please…Let there be a miracle…”

Yet the gap between SSjin Gotenks (Pre) and Evil Boo (Sensable Ki) is so massive that he doesn't think they can bridge it even after training in the RoSaT.


Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P3.5
Context: Trunks doesn’t like the idea of fighting Boo as a Super Saiyan 3 from the start
Trunks: “I think…that we’ve already progressed so much that even in a regular state Fusion, we’ll be about equal with Majin Boo...”

Chapter: 489 (DBZ 295), P11.5
Context: seeing Gotenks after he’d trained in the Room of Spirit and Time
Piccolo: “He-he really is different…! He really has greatly powered up…! Th-this just might…!”

Base Gotenks (Post) then completely blows Piccolo's expectations for SSjin Gotenks out of the water according to both the kids and Piccolo, and Piccolo doesnt lose his positive outlook in base Gotenks until he sees Gotenks get tanked.

Evil Buu real ki >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Base Gotenks (Post) >= Evil Boo (Sensable Ki) > SSjin Gotenks (Expected) > SSjin Gotenks (Pre) > SSjin 3 Goku

The gap between Base Gotenks and SSjin 3 Goku really is insane considering this

[TheMightyOzaru]

Battle of Gods has far more authenticity in the matter. The story was written by Toriyama so he himself seems to think Goku is still weaker than Freeza. Furthermore, Cooler doesn't state base Goku is stronger than 100% Freeza in base. He just acknowledges how Goku might be able to kill him. Piccolo is full of shit, plain and simple. Gotenks COULDN'T have gotten more than 50 times stronger in 10 days, that's absurd. Gotenks is a gag so any statement made about him can be taken with a grain of salt.

[Xyex]

The base kids showed the ability to evenly match Android #18...

No they didn't.

...i'm gonna ignore some non canon TOEi crud like BOG...

You might have something there if it actually were "non canon TOEI crud" but... um, sorry. It's not. TOEI is not responsible for the story of BoG, Toriyama is. BoG is a continuation of the series proper. It's as canon and official as everything Toriyama put into the manga. Personal opinions are null and void at the door. In the official Dragonball universe 100% Freeza > Base Goku.

He also blew away 1st form Cell in base with a generic ki shout. That's a type of feat I can't think anyone doing other than Goku vs Ginyus and he had a huge gap on them.

Cell wasn't expecting Trunks to be as strong as he was, to be expecting him, etc... He was caught wholly off guard, and VERY likely to still be supressed. He'd just been hiding from Trunks, trying not to be discovered, and it was never implied that he'd powered up any before Trunks sent him sailing from the city. Trunks may not screw around with opponents, but he's also not one to waste unneeded effort/power either, and transforming when it's not required would do just that. If he can kill you in base, he will, and transform only if he must.

Battle of Gods has far more authenticity in the matter. The story was written by Toriyama so he himself seems to think Goku is still weaker than Freeza. Furthermore, Cooler doesn't state base Goku is stronger than 100% Freeza in base. He just acknowledges how Goku might be able to kill him. Piccolo is full of shit, plain and simple. Gotenks COULDN'T have gotten more than 50 times stronger in 10 days, that's absurd. Gotenks is a gag so any statement made about him can be taken with a grain of salt.

Yeah, Gotenks way too much of a gag character to be taken all that seriously, or to take what others say about him all that seriously.

[Rocketman]

It's as canon and official as everything Toriyama put into the manga.

Pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt.

Pbt.








Pbt.

(Fuck BoG)

[KentalSSJ6]

The first Cooler movie is one of the biggest cases of Goku bloating there is. If you take the V-Jump scan of Final Form Cooler's power level seriously (470 million) than Goku would have to have been at least 500 million in SSJ. Meaning in the relatively short time, Goku got 3.5 times stronger than he was on Namek.

[dbzfan7]

It's as canon and official as everything Toriyama put into the manga.

Pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt.

Pbt.








Pbt.

(Fuck BoG)

Godku>Vegetto

[Xyex]

Godku>Vegetto

Makes you wonder just how powerful Beers and Super Saiyan God Goku actually are, though. I mean, we know SSJ3 Goku get's completely manhandled (or would that be cat handled? ) and that a pissed off Vegeta manages to knock a supressed Beers around a little bit but... there's really nothinge else to go on.

[Rocketman]

Billy
Super Vegetto
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Godku
NNNNNNNNNNN
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jank busta ass foos

[dbzfan7]

Billy
Super Vegetto
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Godku
NNNNNNNNNNN
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jank busta ass foos

No no honey, whether we like it or not the almighty Goku is now the most powerful saiyan.

[KentalSSJ6]

Billy
Super Vegetto
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Godku
NNNNNNNNNNN
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jank busta ass foos

No no honey, whether we like it or not the almighty Goku is now the most powerful saiyan.

I'm not sure whats the bigger case of bloating. Goku's X33 Zenkai on Namek, or SSJG making him stronger than Super Vegito.

[Rocketman]

No no honey, whether we like it or not the almighty Goku is now the most powerful saiyan.

I see no proof of this.

[ZombieVito]

Getting 50 times stronger in 10 days is no way impossible. Piccolo did it on Kaio's planet.

[Kaboom]

Technically, while Beers is said to be "the strongest in the history of Z," SSJGod Goku at his best only forced Beers to use about 70%. So Vegetto could fall smack dab in-between those two, for all we know.

[KentalSSJ6]

Technically, while Beers is said to be "the strongest in the history of Z," SSJGod Goku at his best only forced Beers to use about 70%. So Vegetto could fall smack dab in-between those two, for all we know.

I heard Goku only fought at 80%. Can someone care to confirm that?

[ZombieVito]

He did say that but then went 100%