Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Victorious]

Umm... yeah, no. She really wasn't taking him seriously at all, or the whole thing would have been over reeeeeally fast.

So why was she toying? she didnt toy with the other guy. She quickly dispatched the blonde guy in one hit. So why waste time with Mighty Mask fighting him back and forth? Makes no sense

Well, no duh he's unusually strong' considering she was expecting to be fighting a human and was instead fighting a pair of Saiyans. If you think your opponent is just a decently skilled human (let's say, Krillin, since she knows him best) and he instead he's really an over powered Saiyan, you'd be surprised too. After all, there is a vast difference in power between 80 (being Krillin) and 5,000 (being the base kids). Though 5,000 still isn't anywhere near 230,000 (being Android 18).

So you're saying she suppressed herself down to fight humans and was expecting to fight humans...OK. So she when she "fights on human level" she fought evenly with base Saiyans. That makes a lot of sense...You know even in base they should be in the millions, at least as high as Goku on Namek's 3,000,000 battle power. And it takes about 18,000 battle power to bust a planet, and 120,000 battle power of Ginyu was one of the strongest fighters in the galaxy for a while. So she's clearly fighting about evenly against guys that are at minimum 20x Captain Ginyu level.

It makes 0 sense for her to be suppressing herself and holding back in order to spare humans just to fight at some at some random godly power 20x C. Ginyu's level.

Of course not. She wasn't using her full power against the boys, like she had been against Vegeta. By the above logic, since 2nd form Freeza never ended up with a hole in his chest like Raditz did, he was clearly stronger than Piccolo.

Piccolo didnt fight Raditz alone. Piccolo alone was Raditz got his blast tanked and Raditz laughed at him about making a blast that kicks up dirt. And I never claimed the base kids to be stronger than 18, just slightly inferior and on her level...certainly higher than pre RoSaT SSJ Vegeta was 7 years ago.

So what do you think 18's battle power would be against the brats then?

lol, says you.

With a formal strike already lodged against your account, there is absolutely zero reason for you to have a perfectly-fine post with quotes and logical examples and then ruin the entire thing by ending it with a ridiculously rude statement like this.

It's another example where I have to say: look, you either want to be here or you don't. It's up to you.

OK my response is that considering Movie 14 canon since AT oversaw it and worked and helped design characters in it etc would be like considering GT canon. Since AT did the same there.

You might have something there if it actually were "non canon TOEI crud" but... um, sorry. It's not. TOEI is not responsible for the story of BoG, Toriyama is. BoG is a continuation of the series proper. It's as canon and official as everything Toriyama put into the manga. Personal opinions are null and void at the door. In the official Dragonball universe 100% Freeza > Base Goku.

"Akira Toriyama is credited as author in the ending credits of Dragon Ball GT; he oversaw the series' production, this was the same process that was used during the production of the anime series Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. He drew a rough design for the GT logo, he designed the GT appearance of the series main cast, and he designed the appearances of Giru and the GT spaceship used in the Black Star Dragon Ball Saga.[1] He also drew at least three color pictures of Goku, Pan, and Trunks adventuring on various planets (Monmaasu, Rudeeze, and an area in Hell)."

http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_GT

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Anyway getting back to the base Gotenks post vs SSJ Gotenks pre thing.

Piccolo did think base Gotenks post was stuck in base, right? He was unaware they could transform in fusion.

So Piccolo thinks Super Buu will crush SSJ Gotenks pre, then thinks at least for a moment that base Gotenks post has a chance, so an in universe explanation would be that base Gotenks post considerably surpassed SSJ Gotenks pre.

OUt of universe you could give the gag fight excuse but when I do power levels I try to stay in universe.

[VegettoEX]

I'm consolidating all of your posts into one. There is no need to have three posts in a row. You can (and should) quote multiple people and make multiple responses all in one, consolidated, concise post.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Please don't use Dragon Ball Wiki.... Ever .

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Please don't use Dragon Ball Wiki.... Ever .

How about you lighten up the discussions in the threads? All the debates I've seen from you seem to be super-serious.

[KentalSSJ6]

Please don't use Dragon Ball Wiki.... Ever .

How about you lighten up the discussions in the threads? All the debates I've seen from you seem to be super-serious.

To be fair, the DB Wiki is more or less the least trustworthy source of information for a lot of things regarding Dragon Ball. The only less trustworthy source I can think of is youtube comments (well the majority of them, some are actual valid points).

[dbzfan7]

Please don't use Dragon Ball Wiki.... Ever .

How about you lighten up the discussions in the threads? All the debates I've seen from you seem to be super-serious.

But the discussions are Super Cereal.

[KentalSSJ6]

Please don't use Dragon Ball Wiki.... Ever .

How about you lighten up the discussions in the threads? All the debates I've seen from you seem to be super-serious.

But the discussions are Super Cereal.

I just wanna put it out there, but Man Bear Pig and The Loch Ness Monster are real, and that I also have a key to the backdoor of Imagination Land.

Now, I was curious. Was there ever a power level listed for Third Form Freeza? I mean his transition to his second form is roughly a X2 increase, so whats the third form's?

[Kamiccolo9]

Now, I was curious. Was there ever a power level listed for Third Form Freeza? I mean his transition to his second form is roughly a X2 increase, so whats the third form's?

Nothing was ever listed. I personally like putting him at 2 million-ish, giving him a 2x boost like his 2nd form gave to his first.

[Tyro]

Now, I was curious. Was there ever a power level listed for Third Form Freeza? I mean his transition to his second form is roughly a X2 increase, so whats the third form's?

Nothing is give about his third form other than Freeza saying his battle power jumps tremendously with each transformation. We know his previous form was probably over 1,000,000 before any power ups and that the Daizenshuu lists Goku at 3,000,000 when he's fighting Freeza, who was equal to or slightly stronger than Goku. 2,000,000 puts him square in the middle.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Please don't use Dragon Ball Wiki.... Ever .

How about you lighten up the discussions in the threads? All the debates I've seen from you seem to be super-serious.

OK... .

[Victorious]

Please don't use Dragon Ball Wiki.... Ever .

They give sources. I checked.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Please don't use Dragon Ball Wiki.... Ever .

They give sources. I checked.

I don't give a crap. Never use Dragon Ball Wiki, it's a disgrace.

[dbzfan7]

Hell anyone can make the wiki say what they want. I could have it say Raditz died because he lost the will to fight or some shit like that.

[Victorious]

Regarding Piccolo's power when he first arrived on Namek, I like to view him around 300,000.

Nail had fought 1st form Freeza [battle power 530,000] and Nail implies that if the Kamiccolo had shown up on the battle field he could defeat Freeza.

Chapter: 295 (DBZ 101), P1.4, P2.1-5, P3.1
Nail: “I-I’m astonished…I don’t know what kind of training you’ve done, but you’ve acquired unbelievable power…Still, it’s unfortunate…If you had only returned to the original, single Namekian you were, you might have been able to defeat even Freeza…”
Piccolo: “Are you saying that if I merged with God once again, my power would even surpass Freeza!?”
Nail: “Th-that’s right…I was overwhelmingly defeated by Freeza, but I should have a good comprehension of his abilities…[ ] So merge with me…! I’m also the only fighting-type Namekian on this planet…[ ] That’s right…Your power will become many times greater…”



A lot of people including myself believe the Kamiccolo power up to be 2x based on this comment

Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”

[Xyex]

Umm... yeah, no. She really wasn't taking him seriously at all, or the whole thing would have been over reeeeeally fast.

So why was she toying? she didnt toy with the other guy. She quickly dispatched the blonde guy in one hit. So why waste time with Mighty Mask fighting him back and forth? Makes no sense

She wasn't 'toying' with him. If Gotenks had been a normal human, she would have taken him out right away. He wasn't, she wasn't sure just how strong he was, she had to figure out his actual power to hit him with something that could take him out without killing him. If she wanted to kill him, then just using whatever level of power would be fine, but simply for a knock out she has to be careful not to over do it, and that requires testing his limits.

Well, no duh he's unusually strong' considering she was expecting to be fighting a human and was instead fighting a pair of Saiyans. If you think your opponent is just a decently skilled human (let's say, Krillin, since she knows him best) and he instead he's really an over powered Saiyan, you'd be surprised too. After all, there is a vast difference in power between 80 (being Krillin) and 5,000 (being the base kids). Though 5,000 still isn't anywhere near 230,000 (being Android 18).

So you're saying she suppressed herself down to fight humans and was expecting to fight humans...OK. So she when she "fights on human level" she fought evenly with base Saiyans. That makes a lot of sense...You know even in base they should be in the millions, at least as high as Goku on Namek's 3,000,000 battle power. And it takes about 18,000 battle power to bust a planet, and 120,000 battle power of Ginyu was one of the strongest fighters in the galaxy for a while. So she's clearly fighting about evenly against guys that are at minimum 20x Captain Ginyu level.

It makes 0 sense for her to be suppressing herself and holding back in order to spare humans just to fight at some at some random godly power 20x C. Ginyu's level.

You can't kill in the Budokai, so of course she was suppressing her power to avoid killing her opponents. Then she runs into Mighty Mask who forces her to increase her power to a higher level to contend, because he's greater than the normal humans. Again, she has to test his capacity so as not to accidentally kill him with too strong of an attack. So no, she wasn't on a 'human level' for the majority of the Mighty Mask fight, no duh, but she also wasn't at 100% power.

Of course not. She wasn't using her full power against the boys, like she had been against Vegeta. By the above logic, since 2nd form Freeza never ended up with a hole in his chest like Raditz did, he was clearly stronger than Piccolo.

Piccolo didnt fight Raditz alone. Piccolo alone was Raditz got his blast tanked and Raditz laughed at him about making a blast that kicks up dirt. And I never claimed the base kids to be stronger than 18, just slightly inferior and on her level...certainly higher than pre RoSaT SSJ Vegeta was 7 years ago.

So what do you think 18's battle power would be against the brats then?

If the kids are at 5,000,000 (where I have them pegged myself) then she would have worked up to and been somewhere around that range as well, as she worked out their limits.

OK my response is that considering Movie 14 canon since AT oversaw it and worked and helped design characters in it etc would be like considering GT canon. Since AT did the same there.

Not even close. Toriyama provided some early ideas and designs for GT but was otherwise uninvolved. BoG, on the other hand, was his creation. The only thing different between it and the manga is that he didn't draw it.

Piccolo did think base Gotenks post was stuck in base, right? He was unaware they could transform in fusion.

So Piccolo thinks Super Buu will crush SSJ Gotenks pre, then thinks at least for a moment that base Gotenks post has a chance, so an in universe explanation would be that base Gotenks post considerably surpassed SSJ Gotenks pre.

OUt of universe you could give the gag fight excuse but when I do power levels I try to stay in universe.

I try to stay in universe as well, but occasionally you just have to shrug and go with the joke. Otherwise what's Satan's BP at the Cell Games? 3 billion?

Now, I was curious. Was there ever a power level listed for Third Form Freeza? I mean his transition to his second form is roughly a X2 increase, so whats the third form's?

Nothing was ever listed. I personally like putting him at 2 million-ish, giving him a 2x boost like his 2nd form gave to his first.

I tend to just repeat his increases, so each transformation is 530,000 points, putting 3rd form at 1,590,000. Though for a while I toyed with two different ideas, one that each was a doubling and the other that each multiplied his power by it's number. IE, 3rd form was 3x of 2nd, 4th form 4x of 3rd. The latter bloated his powers too much and required way too massive a zenkai from Goku, for my liking, though.

A lot of people including myself believe the Kamiccolo power up to be 2x based on this comment

Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”

Eh, half then doesn't mean it would be half now, given the fact that Piccolo isn't the exact same person as his father.

[Victorious]

Watching Battle Of The Gods it seems to me Beers knew base Goku didnt beat Freeza because his hair is black. The other God showed Beers "footage" of the Goku vs Freeza fight and Goku was transformed as a SSJ against Freeza of course, Beers noted that Saiyans have black hair but Goku's hair was gold against Freeza. Then when Beers met Goku on Kaio's planet face to face he poked Goku's shirt a few times and kept looking at his hair and poked his arm. I don't think it had anything to do with him sensing Goku's ki but more noticing Goku wasn't a Super Saiyan then and was a Super Saiyan when he beat Freeza.

Beers seems to be pretty clueless too, regarding being shocked that someone can kill Freeza. Considering the lower Kaioshins could all do it casually.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Beers thinks he's incapable of beating him and Goku doesn't argue. Goku actually argued when Tarble talked down to him.

[dbzfan7]

Beers thinks he's incapable of beating him and Goku doesn't argue. Goku actually argued when Tarble talked down to him.

Or the good ol "Why bother making a statement at all that's not true if you don't retcon that statement later"

[MDSTSSJ]

Watching Battle Of The Gods it seems to me Beers knew base Goku didnt beat Freeza because his hair is black. The other God showed Beers "footage" of the Goku vs Freeza fight and Goku was transformed as a SSJ against Freeza of course, Beers noted that Saiyans have black hair but Goku's hair was gold against Freeza. Then when Beers met Goku on Kaio's planet face to face he poked Goku's shirt a few times and kept looking at his hair and poked his arm. I don't think it had anything to do with him sensing Goku's ki but more noticing Goku wasn't a Super Saiyan then and was a Super Saiyan when he beat Freeza.

Beers seems to be pretty clueless too, regarding being shocked that someone can kill Freeza. Considering the lower Kaioshins could all do it casually.

Very interesting and valid point of view!! Is a good reason ( besides being suppressed ) for Bills think that base Goku is not stronger than Freeza.

[Kaboom]

I don't give a crap. Never use Dragon Ball Wiki, it's a disgrace.

A little late, but is this attitude really necessary? I've been noticing some hostility in your posts as of late. Please try to chill and keep things shonen, especially when discussing something as subjective and irrelevant in the long run as fan-made power levels.