Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[DragonHermit]

Hit
Vados
Whis
Goku
Beerus
Vegeta
Cabba
Piccolo
Frost

[dbzfan7]

I'm more certain than ever now that SSJB (Which they finally called it that YES), is in another realm compared to SSJ. From the bout it seemed to me Vegeta may have been a lot stronger. He seemed to tank SSJ Cabba without much of a problem. But my stream was glitchy so the fight was jittery for me.

[Birusu16]

Hit
Vados
Whis
Goku
Beerus
Vegeta
Cabba
Piccolo
Frost

Absolutely nothing substantiates Hit being that high.

[DragonHermit]

Hit
Vados
Whis
Goku
Beerus
Vegeta
Cabba
Piccolo
Frost

Absolutely nothing substantiates Hit being that high.

Isn't the name of the episode Hit: U6's Strongest Warrior?

[Birusu16]

Hit
Vados
Whis
Goku
Beerus
Vegeta
Cabba
Piccolo
Frost

Absolutely nothing substantiates Hit being that high.

Isn't the name of the episode Hit: U6's Strongest Warrior?

So? Monaka is the strongest fighter Beerus ever fought. Does that make him stronger than Whis? I'm pretty sure that statement is referring to the U6 team, not every character in U6.

[Bullza]

Well one thing the episode does confirm for us is that the difference between base and Super Saiyan is still 50x.

If Super Saiyan is supposed to be as strong as Super Saiyan God, then base form is 1/50th as strong as SSJG. So if SSJG (or SSJ) Goku is a 6 then base Goku should be a 0.12

That would make sense with Whis comparing the Saiyans to Beerus but it doesn't make sense with base Goku being able to keep up with Beerus or him stopping an attack SSJ Goku couldn't. So the theory someone brought up about base Goku only being SSJG level for that one time only whilst the God Ki was still being absorbed into his body would have to be the case.

If Goku was a 0.12 in the RoF saga and Frieza was even less then it'd mean when he turns into Golden Freeza his power boosts like 70-80x or something ridiculous.

Whis - 15
Beerus - 10
Golden Frieza - 8
SSJB Goku/Vegeta - 7
SSJ Goku - 6
SSJ3 Vegito - 4
SSJ2 Vegito - 1
SSJ1 Vegito - 0.5
Goku/Vegeta - 0.12
Frieza - 0.1

That'd make the base Saiyans and Frieza perhaps Super Buu level? It'd fit with them being stronger than SSJ3 Goku/Kid Buu at least.

Edit: It'd also make sense with Piccolo surpassing the base Saiyans but still being nowhere near SSJG tier.

[Khin]

Base Goku can't be SSj3 Tier.Gotenks was heavily implied to be way below than First Form Freeza.I imagine 1st Form Freeza to be Buuhan tier and his Final Form being in the same realm to Super Vegetto at least.

[ZombieVito]

Freeza is not weaker than base Goku. The narrator said in episode 25 that Goku "surpassed" Freeza by going SSB.

[Bullza]

He was obviously stronger than Frieza in his final form, he completely overpowered Frieza in the movie and he barely even got a shot in. There's no need to change that way of thinking over a throwaway narration line.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Vegeta pretty much disproved the two base theory in this episode.

No mention of SBG at all.

On the contrary. We saw that Super Saiyan gives Goku & Vegeta the same old x50 boost, and that Super Saiyan Blue is on a completely different level compared to regular Super Saiyan. Add the fact that Piccolo is between the base Saiyans & Super Saiyans, like he was in Boo arc, that he is on par with a weakened Ultimate Gohan, and that he is considered to be weaker than Boo, not to mention that Frost hasn't trained like Freeza did...

Vegeta apparently simply chose to use the SSG power in his Super Saiyan form right away instead of reverting back to base & then using the SSG power, since he wanted to show Super Saiyan Blue to Cabba.

[jcogginsa]

Vegeta pretty much disproved the two base theory in this episode.

No mention of SBG at all.

On the contrary. We saw that Super Saiyan gives Goku & Vegeta the same old x50 boost, and that Super Saiyan Blue is on a completely different level compared to regular Super Saiyan. Add the fact that Piccolo is between the base Saiyans & Super Saiyans, like he was in Boo arc, that he is on par with a weakened Ultimate Gohan, and that he is considered to be weaker than Boo, not to mention that Frost hasn't trained like Freeza did...

Vegeta apparently simply chose to use the SSG power in his Super Saiyan form right away instead of reverting back to base & then using the SSG power, since he wanted to show Super Saiyan Blue to Cabba.

There is no evidence of any of that. We already knew they could transform into Golden Hair Super Saiyan whilst using God power before they ever even introduced SSB

[Khin]

He was obviously stronger than Frieza in his final form, he completely overpowered Frieza in the movie and he barely even got a shot in. There's no need to change that way of thinking over a throwaway narration line.

Movies and Super are different.Freeza didn't get wrecked by Base Goku in ROF Arc,and IRRC,Final Form Freeza was able to land hits on Goku.

[Bullza]

The fight was closer in Super but he also had to use cheap tricks like attacking Krillin to get a shot in.

This arc is being written as a continuation of the movie and the series wouldn't change Frieza from being comfortably weaker than Goku to being stronger than him.

Between a several minute sequence of Goku overpowering Frieza in a movie written by Toriyama or a throwaway comment by the narrator I'd go with the former every time.

[Khin]

The fight was closer in Super but he also had to use cheap tricks like attacking Krillin to get a shot in.

This arc is being written as a continuation of the movie and the series wouldn't change Frieza from being comfortably weaker than Goku to being stronger than him.

Between a several minute sequence of Goku overpowering Frieza in a movie written by Toriyama or a throwaway comment by the narrator I'd go with the former every time.

Eh ? The arc is a continuation of Super not the movie.Gregory was shown in the arc,they used the BOG Arc for the flashacks etc.We're in a Dragon Ball Super thread,not in the movie version.TOEI/Toriyama changed Tagoma from being a Zarbon tier to be above Piccolo tier so it shouldn't be impossible for them to bump FF. Freeza.

[ZombieVito]

Vegeta pretty much disproved the two base theory in this episode.

No mention of SBG at all.

On the contrary. We saw that Super Saiyan gives Goku & Vegeta the same old x50 boost, and that Super Saiyan Blue is on a completely different level compared to regular Super Saiyan. Add the fact that Piccolo is between the base Saiyans & Super Saiyans, like he was in Boo arc, that he is on par with a weakened Ultimate Gohan, and that he is considered to be weaker than Boo, not to mention that Frost hasn't trained like Freeza did...

Vegeta apparently simply chose to use the SSG power in his Super Saiyan form right away instead of reverting back to base & then using the SSG power, since he wanted to show Super Saiyan Blue to Cabba.

But there's zero evidence of any of this. No one even wonders why they are weaker than before. Hell even Kuririn is impressed by SSJ Goku and final form Frost in the manga.

[LightBing]

I'm pretty satisfied with how this arc is going. To me it clarified a lot of stuff, which makes me enjoy it much more:

1. Goku and Vegeta having three "phases", leaving behind the Base = SSJG as a one time occurrence. Which was previous mentioned (not directly, just implied as not being the case anymore) in the RoF arc and confirmed here.
2. Making Vegeta's and Freeza gains much more down to Earth, since their bulk was granted through transformations.
3. Actually maintaining the "God Tier" as the status quo, therefore maintaining it's importance when we're three arcs in. The only non-Gods characters that have it are: Goku, Vegeta, Golden Freeza and apparently Hit.
4. Maybe opening the possibility for more interesting battles and participation from weaker characters. Due to the special ability's and tactics approach.

I really have to make a list. Anyway from this episode, Base Cabba is equal to Base Vegeta said by the later himself. SSJ Vegeta is handily stronger than SSJ Cabba.

[ZombieVito]

Cabba can't be equal to Vegeta in base if Vegeta is superior in SSJ.

Vegeta was just toying with Cabba.

[saunasolmu]

Cabba can't be equal to Vegeta in base if Vegeta is superior in SSJ.

Vegeta was just toying with Cabba.

Vegeta has MSSJ. It was the first time ever Cabba transformed.

[Hugo Boss]

Good exhibition of Super Saiyan Cabba, he was fairly even with Super Saiyan Vegeta, if not a bit stronger. A shame Cabba's powers suddenly disappeared in the middle of the fight. It was not very spetacular but lasted enough to be good. Looking forward to see the other Saiyans and Cabba probably has the potential to become a Super Saiyan God through the ritual.

[ZombieVito]

Cabba can't be equal to Vegeta in base if Vegeta is superior in SSJ.

Vegeta was just toying with Cabba.

Vegeta has MSSJ. It was the first time ever Cabba transformed.

And? The multiplier is the same.