Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[dbzfan7]

Kinda like how some don't believe in the GT issue. I personally don't believe in the explanation BOG gave for Vegeta.

[Victorious]

base EOZ Goku is on like Kid Buu level based on fighting evenly with Uub.

That's likely where GT got that idea from about base kid Goku being so damn strong.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

base EOZ Goku is on like Kid Buu level based on fighting evenly with Uub.

That's likely where GT got that idea from about base kid Goku being so damn strong.

Goku isn't necessarily that strong in the manga (I personally think that Oob's power was slowly rising, and then went full power (aka Pure Boo/SS3 level) when he used the Kiai, since Daizenshuu states that his power increased after the Kiai), but yes, especially considering his fight with Oob in the anime. But I'm not sure if they were following any real logic. I think they just said "hey, it's been so long, Goku should be able to beat guys like Freeza, Cell, and Majin Boo in normal form now! Why not?". Yet we literally saw crazy shit like SS4 Vegeta >>> SS Vegeta >>> Oozaru Vegeta > SS4 Goku >= SS4 Vegeta >>> SS Goku > SS(2?) Vegeta > Super Oob >>> SS3 Goku >>> SS Goku > SS Gohan > base Goku >= base Rild >= base Gohan >>> base Goku... Toei seems to think that there is a small difference in power between base, SS, SS2, SS3, and SS4 as well... After all these shit, I just gave up on logic in GT and made up my logic. Don't make me dive in filler/movie logic in power feats, statements, or even battle powers.

[Rocketman]

GT basically runs on the Budokai videogames' logic.

Super Saiyan is +10% strength,SS2 is +15%, SS3 is +25% and SS4 +40%.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

GT basically runs on the Budokai videogames' logic.

Super Saiyan is +10% strength,SS2 is +15%, SS3 is +25% and SS4 +40%.

Judging from the Goku, Trunks, and Vegeta vs #13, #14, and #15 (movie), as well as the Goku vs Paikuhan (filler), this rule seems to apply in the anime in general.

[KentalSSJ6]

My theory with GT Goku us that he at least doubled in power from his End of Z appearance. He has been training nonstop with the human incarnation of Majin Buu for 5 years straight and we clearly see Uub can push Goku's limits big time judging by their appearance after their sparring session on the lookout. I believe the stronger the sparring partner = the bigger the gains you receive. Considering Kid Buu would have killed Goku if not for the wish to restore his power, I can easily believe that 5 years of sparring with him would allow GT base Goku to surpass SSJ3 Z Goku.


Thats as far as I go into GT territory with power levels outside of a SSJ4 multiplier. I can see how X4000 can make sense, but to see it go from 400 to 4000 seems abit far fetched to me. Id have personally put SSJ4 at X1500 at the most.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

My theory with GT Goku us that he at least doubled in power from his End of Z appearance. He has been training nonstop with the human incarnation of Majin Buu for 5 years straight and we clearly see Uub can push Goku's limits big time judging by their appearance after their sparring session on the lookout. I believe the stronger the sparring partner = the bigger the gains you receive. Considering Kid Buu would have killed Goku if not for the wish to restore his power, I can easily believe that 5 years of sparring with him would allow GT base Goku to surpass SSJ3 Z Goku.

Thing is, Goku wasn't sparring for 5 years. He was teaching Oob how to fight, and how to control & develop his huge power, so that they can have their incredible fight in the beginning of GT. They weren't sparring like that all these years, they were getting prepared for this one fight.

Thats as far as I go into GT territory with power levels outside of a SSJ4 multiplier. I can see how X4000 can make sense, but to see it go from 400 to 4000 seems abit far fetched to me. Id have personally put SSJ4 at X1500 at the most.

I personally have a huge multiplier for Super Saiyan 4 because I want Goku to be reasonably stronger from Z to GT & keep the Super Vegetto >= SS4 Goku.

[KentalSSJ6]

Id think GT Goku x4000 would equal Vegito.

Besides, if Goku at least doubled in GT wouldent he already be near Vegito level by himself? Vegito is Goku X Vegeta with some rival boost.

That being said, and seeing as Goku is stronger than Vegeta, GT Goku would just be Goku X Goku without the rival boost. If he isnt Vegito level already then hes pretty damn close. Times that by 4k and well...yeah.

[Rocketman]

Id think GT Goku x4000 would equal Vegito.

Besides, if Goku at least doubled in GT wouldent he already be near Vegito level by himself? Vegito is Goku X Vegeta with some rival boost.

That being said, and seeing as Goku is stronger than Vegeta, GT Goku would just be Goku X Goku without the rival boost. If he isnt Vegito level already then hes pretty damn close. Times that by 4k and well...yeah.

"Goku x Goku" isn't doubling, it's squaring.

[KentalSSJ6]

Id think GT Goku x4000 would equal Vegito.

Besides, if Goku at least doubled in GT wouldent he already be near Vegito level by himself? Vegito is Goku X Vegeta with some rival boost.

That being said, and seeing as Goku is stronger than Vegeta, GT Goku would just be Goku X Goku without the rival boost. If he isnt Vegito level already then hes pretty damn close. Times that by 4k and well...yeah.

"Goku x Goku" isn't doubling, it's squaring.

Another reason I tend to avoid power levels. I royally suck at math.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Sorry but how exactly does one think Goku x Goku is doubling Goku's power?

[KentalSSJ6]

Sorry but how exactly does one think Goku x Goku is doubling Goku's power?

Multiply Goku's base power by two.

Sorry but as I said, I suck at math.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Sorry but how exactly does one think Goku x Goku is doubling Goku's power?

Multiply Goku's base power by two.

Sorry but as I said, I suck at math.

Yeah but this kind of math is pretty basic.

[KentalSSJ6]

Sorry but how exactly does one think Goku x Goku is doubling Goku's power?

Multiply Goku's base power by two.

Sorry but as I said, I suck at math.

Yeah but this kind of math is pretty basic.

Irrelevant to me. Never got it checked out but I likely have a learning disability with math. Struggled with it since kindergarten.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Id think GT Goku x4000 would equal Vegito.

Besides, if Goku at least doubled in GT wouldent he already be near Vegito level by himself? Vegito is Goku X Vegeta with some rival boost.

That being said, and seeing as Goku is stronger than Vegeta, GT Goku would just be Goku X Goku without the rival boost. If he isnt Vegito level already then hes pretty damn close. Times that by 4k and well...yeah.

... You really suck at match.
Let's say that Goku & Vegeta's are equals, and their BP is 3.000.000. Vegetto's BP would be 3.000.000 x 3.000.000 = 9.000.000.000.000. Now, Goku & Vegeta are far above 3.000.000 in Boo arc, so imagine how ridiculously overpowered Vegetto would be.

But personally, I don't believe that the "Goku X Vegeta = Vegetto" is supposed to be a formula to calculate Vegetto's BP. Not only it makes zero sense (the BP numbers is an artificial way to measure power, they can't be related with the magical Potara), but we also have another guidebook saying that Gotenks is dozens of times stronger than Goten or Trunks, and we have "Goten + Trunks = Gotenks", exactly like with "Goku X Vegeta = Vegetto". The Gotenks "formula" obviously isn't supposed to be a formula to calculate his BP, and the "X" in "Goku X Vegeta = Vegetto" isn't only the multiplication symbol, but it also means "cross" (like in Street Fighter X Tekken). So, the way I see it, it actually says "Goku cross Vegeta make Vegetto".

[Godo]

Sorry but how exactly does one think Goku x Goku is doubling Goku's power?

Multiply Goku's base power by two.

Sorry but as I said, I suck at math.

Yeah but this kind of math is pretty basic.

So he really sucks at math.

[KentalSSJ6]

Pretty much.

[Victorious]

Here's my DB battle powers ignoring all scouter number other than the Farmer's 5, and also taking into consideration feats like Beginning of DB Goku tanking Machine gun bullets and Piccolo being able to create Nuke sized explosions, etc.



Pilaf saga

Pilaf : 2.5
Shuu : 2.7
Bulma : 3
Mai : 4
Farmer of DBZ / normal blue collar guy : 5
Bear Bandit : 25
Yamcha : 42
Son Goku beginning of Dragon Ball : 50
Oozaru Son Goku : 500

Krillin : 34


21st Budokai

Orinji Temple bullies : 55
Yamcha : 120
Bacterian : 165
LangFang : 180
Giran : 200
Krillin : 220
Namu : 275
Son Goku without tail : 240
Son Goku with tail : 300
Oozaru Son Goku : 3,000
Roshi / Jackie Chun : 305
Uber Buff form : 2,440


Red Ribbon Army

Goku post 21st zenkai : 375
Goku post Muscle Tower gauntlet / fighting : 425
Goku post Taio Pai Pai beatdown zenkai : 552.5
Goku post Karin-sama training : 2,500

Colonel Silver : 150
Sergeant Metallic : 340
Sergeant Major Murasaki : 290
Buuyon : 500
Android #8 : 600
Major White : 7

General Blue : 350
Pirate Robot : 360
Arale : 700

Bora : 320
Tao Pai Pai : 2,000
Adjunct Black : 375
Adjunct Black's Battle Jacket : 2,250
Commander Red : 4.2


Uranai Baba arc

Dracula Man : 100
Suke-san : 180
Mummy-kun : 1,000
Akkuman : 1,600
Son Gohan : 2,300

Yamcha : 200
Krillin : 325
Son Goku : 2,500


22nd Budokai

Chapa O : 2,700
Chaouzu : 4,000
Yamcha : 4,200
Krillin : 4,600
Tsuru-sennin : 8,000
Master Roshi / Jackie Chun : 9,200
Tenshinhan : 10,000
Son Goku match level : 5,000
Son Goku battle level/full power : 10,200


Piccolo-Daimao arc

Chapa O : 2,700


Giran - 200
Tenshinhan - 10,000
Kuririn - 4,600

Cymbal - 2,500
Tambourine - 7,500
Drum : 80,000

Yajirobe : 12,000

Giant King Castle Guard - 20,000

Karin-sama : 25,000

Goku post 22nd Budokai/Tambourine beatdown zenkai : 13,000
Goku post Piccolo-Daimao beatdown zenkai : 32,000
Goku post Sacred Water : 320,000

Initial Old Piccolo-Daimao : 11,000
40% power Old Piccolo-Daimao : 24,000
Full Power Old Piccolo-Daimao : 60,000
Initial Young Piccolo-Daimao : 100,000
Full Power Young Piccolo-Daimao : 300,000


Training with God

Goku post Piccolo Daimo zenkai : 375,000
Mr. Popo : 1,000,000
Kami-sama : 3,000,000


23rd Budokai

Tenshinhan : 440,000

Kami-sama : 3,000,000

Piccolo Junior
weighted : 3,300,000
full power : 4,400,000

Son Goku [weighted] : 440,000
----- strength level : 440,000
----- speed level : 320,000
unweighted : 700,000
Tenshinhan's estimation : 1,200,000
initial vs Piccolo : 3,200,000
full power : 4,500,000
post zenkai : 5,550,000


Beginning of Z

Piccolo Junior [weighted] : 6,440,000
Piccolo Junior [full power] : 8,160,000
----- Makankosappo : 26,600,000
----- Makankosappo : 29,700,000

Son Goku [weighted] : 6,680,000
Son Goku [full power] : 8,320,000
----- Kamehameha : 18,480,000

Raditz : 24,000,000

[TheMightyOzaru]

What exactly is the point of ignoring all the scouter numbers? Piccolo being able to create nuke sized explosions with a BP of 260-400 isn't preposterous.

[Pantalones]

Basically seems like a reworking of the Dragonball levels to account for the huge power gaps that seem to exist in-story which don't actually show up in the official levels (Piccolo "not even using half his power" for example; with the official levels that statement cannot be literally true), so everything's not cramped so tightly toward the low end just to fit everyone below those beginning-of-DBZ 400-something levels for Goku and Piccolo. That's always been a problem with the Dragonball official levels, the story was clearly not written with numerical Freeza-scouter-style power levels in mind and the numbers that do exist were definitely made up long after the fact.

Just think of it as a different scale than Freeza's scouters that happens to have "5" as a shared measurement (like how -40 in both Celsius and Fahrenheit is the same temperature, but everything else is different between the two scales.)

Suddenly jumping up from low hundreds-of-thousands to the multiple-millions in the time between Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. seems like a bit of a stretch, but... eh.