Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Rocketman]

Basically seems like a reworking of the Dragonball levels to account for the huge power gaps that seem to exist in-story which don't actually show up in the official levels (Piccolo "not even using half his power" for example; with the official levels that statement cannot be literally true), so everything's not cramped so tightly toward the low end just to fit everyone below those beginning-of-DBZ 400-something levels for Goku and Piccolo. That's always been a problem with the Dragonball official levels, the story was clearly not written with numerical Freeza-scouter-style power levels in mind and the numbers that do exist were definitely made up long after the fact.

It's almost like power levels aren't everything.

[dbzfan7]

Basically seems like a reworking of the Dragonball levels to account for the huge power gaps that seem to exist in-story which don't actually show up in the official levels (Piccolo "not even using half his power" for example; with the official levels that statement cannot be literally true), so everything's not cramped so tightly toward the low end just to fit everyone below those beginning-of-DBZ 400-something levels for Goku and Piccolo. That's always been a problem with the Dragonball official levels, the story was clearly not written with numerical Freeza-scouter-style power levels in mind and the numbers that do exist were definitely made up long after the fact.

Just think of it as a different scale than Freeza's scouters that happens to have "5" as a shared measurement (like how -40 in both Celsius and Fahrenheit is the same temperature, but everything else is different between the two scales.)

Suddenly jumping up from low hundreds-of-thousands to the multiple-millions in the time between Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. seems like a bit of a stretch, but... eh.

Pretty much what you said. The suggestions in Dragon Ball would make their power levels a lot higher. Makes me wonder if I should go with the jump scan that had Goku's full power be equal to his Kamehameha. That way there would be more room for gaps.

[Gogeta8001]

I posted my PL's here about 2 years ago but it's changed a lot since then. You can see how my current list differs from the one I posted almost 2 years ago.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... start=1380

Multipliers

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan Multipliers (They decrease as the series progress)
SS: 50x Base (Ascended SS is 1.5 x SS and Ultra SS is 1.7-1.9x SS)
LSS: 2.5x SS
SS2: 4x SS
SS3: 4x SS2
SSG: 100x SS
SS4: Potential Unlock

Fusion
A + B x 100 (A and B must be at the same level or the fusion will not work)

Potara
A + B x (varies) x 4 (Potara can vary depending on how close A and B are in power. If the two are equal, then they will get a 100X boost like Fusion. If there not the same, then the mutiplier will be whatever the gap between the characters are. For an example, if B is 70% of A's power, then the multiplier for A and B will be 70X. If the two fusees are way too far away in power, then their combined powers will drop 40% regardless of the gap. Potara also gets a 4x boost as well.

Rival Boost
In some cases were the two fusees have a heated rivarly, the two will get a 20x rival boost.

DBZ

Saiyan Saga and Namek Saga

Spoiler:

Saiyan Saga

Farmer Vs Raditz
Farmer With Shotgun: 5
Raditz:: 1,300

Goku & Piccolo Vs Raditz
Son Goku (With Weights): 334
Son Goku (Without Weights): 416
Kamehameha: 950
Piccolo (With Weights): 322
Piccolo (Without Weights): 408
Makankosappo: 1,330
Piccolo (With Weights, Post Fight): 329
Son Gohan: 1
Son Gohan (Angry, 1st Time): 710
Son Gohan (Angry, 2nd Time): 1,370
Raditz : 1,300
Raditz (Weakened): 200

Other Characters
Krillin: 206
Master Roshi: 139
Yamcha: 177
Chiaotzu: 145
Tenshinhan: 250
Yajirobe: 148
Kami: 290
King Yemma: 2,000
King Kai: 3,000

Z-Fighters Vs Nappa
Son Gohan (Post-Training): 981
Son Gohan (Angry): 2,500
Masenko: 2,800
Krillin (Post-Training, Supressed): 1,083
Krillin (Post-Training): 1,770
Piccolo (Post-Training, Supressed): 1,220
Piccolo (Post-Training): 2,300
Chiaotzu: 610
Yamcha: 1,480
Tenshinhan: 1,830
Saibamen (Each): 1,200
Nappa (Supressed): 4,000

Goku Vs Nappa
Nappa (Full Power): 6,500
Goku (Supressed): 5,000
Goku (Full Power): 8,200
Kaioken x2: 16,400

Goku, Gohan, Krillin, Yaijorbe Vs Vegeta
Goku: 8,200
Kaioken x2: 16,400
Kaioken x3: 24,600
Kaioken x3 Kamehameha: 29,600
Kaioken x4: 32,800
Kaioken x4 Kamehameha: 37,800
Son Goku (Crippled): 5
Vegeta: 18,000
Galick Gun: 30,000
Vegeta (Before going Oozaru): 13,000
Oozaru Vegeta: 130,000
Vegeta (Injured): 10,000
Vegeta (Mortally Injured):1,000
Vegeta (Crippled): 10
Son Gohan (Zenkai): 1,000
Son Gohan (Injured): 300
Son Gohan (Oozaru, Injured): 3,000
Yaijorbe: 970
Kuririn: 1,770
Genkai Dama: 300,000
Weakened Genkai Dama: 9,000

Namek Saga

On To Namek!
Freeza`s Soliders (Each) : Under 1,000
Warrior Nameks (Each): 3,000
Son Gohan (Zenkai): 1,500
Krillin: 1,500
Vegeta (Zenkai): 24,000
Cui: 19,000
Dodoria: 22,000
Zarbon: 23,000
Zarbon (True Form): 27,000
Vegeta (2nd Zenkai): 30,000

Z-Fighters Vs Ginyu Force
Son Gohan (Potential Unlocked): 12,000
Krillin (Potential Unlocked): 11,000
Vegeta: 30,000
Guldo: 5,000
Recoome: 40,000
Burter: 40,000
Jeice: 40,000
Son Goku (Supressed): 5,000
Son Goku (Full Power): 90,000

Z-Fighters Vs Captain Ginyu
Son Goku: 90,000
Kaioken x2: 180,000
Son Goku (In Captain Ginyu`s Body, Injured): 2,000
Captain Ginyu: 120,000
Captain Ginyu (In Goku`s Body): 23,000
Son Gohan (Zenkai): 25,000
Krillin: 24,000
Vegeta (Injured, 3rd Zenkai): 200,000
Nail: 42,000
1st Form Freeza: 530,000

Freeza Saga and Trunks Saga

Spoiler:

Freeza Saga

Z-Fighters Vs Freeza
Son Gohan (2nd Zenkai): 80,000
Son Gohan (2nd Zenkai, Angry): 1,100,000
Son Gohan (3rd Zenkai): 140,000
Son Gohan (3rd Zenkai, Angry): 1,700,000
Krillin: 75,000
Vegeta (3rd Zenkai): 480,000
Vegeta (4th Zenkai): 1,800,000
Piccolo (Fused With Nail, With Weights): 1,080,000
Piccolo (Fused With Nail, Without Weights): 1,404,000
1st Form Freeza: 530,000
2nd Form Freeza (Supressed): 1,060,000
2nd Form Freeza (Full-Power): 1,320,000
3rd Form Freeza: 1,700,000
Final Form Freeza (1%): 1,200,000
Final Form Freeza (2%): 2,400,000

Goku Vs Freeza
Son Goku (Zenkai): 3,000,000
Kaioken x2: 6,000,000
Kaioken x10: 30,000,000
Kaioken x10 Kamehameha: 50,000,000
Kaioken x20: 60,000,000
Genkai Dama: 100,000,000
Final Form Freeza (2%): 2,400,000
Final Form Freeza (4%): 4,800,000
Final Form Freeza (20%): 24,000,000
Final Form Freeza (40%): 48,000,000
Final Form Freeza (50%): 60,000,000

Super Saiyan Goku Vs Freeza
Son Goku: 3,000,000
SS Son Goku: 150,000,000
Angry Kamehameha: 20,000,000
Freeza (50%): 60,000,000
Freeza (100%): 120,000,000
Freeza (With Half A Body): 10,000,000

Trunks Saga

Trunks Vs Freeza & co.
Trunks (Heavily Supressed): 5
Trunks (Full-Power): 3,800,000
SS Trunks: 152,000,000
Freeza's Soliders: Under 1,000
Mecha Freeza (50%): 75,000,000
King Cold: 70,000,000

Other Characters
Son Goku: 4,500,000
SS Son Goku: 180,000,000
Son Gohan: 900,000
Yamcha: 550,000
Tenshinhan: 6900,000
Krillin: 840,000
Vegeta: 4,200,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 4,000,000

Android Saga and Cell Saga

Spoiler:

Android Saga

Goku VS Andriod 19
Son Goku (Post Training): 10,200,000
SS Son Goku (Post Training): 306,000,000
SS Son Goku (Sick): 102,000,000
Kamehameha: 234,600,000
Android 19: 70,000,000
Andriod 19 (After Absorbing The Kamehameha): 304,600,000

Vegeta Arrives!
Vegeta (Post-Training): 10,800,000
SS Vegeta (Post Training): 324,000,000
Android 19: 70,000,000
Andriod 19 (After Absorbing The Kamehameha): 304,600,000

The Hunt For Gero!
Vegeta (Post-Training): 10,800,000
SS Vegeta (Post Training): 324,000,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 120,000,000
Piccolo (Without Weights): 156,000,000
Yamcha (Post-Training): 4,500,000
Krillin (Post-Training): 8,000,000
Son Gohan (Post-Training): 8,500,000
Tenshinhan (Post-Training): 6,000,000
Trunks (Post-Training): 9,000,000
SS Trunks (Post-Training): 270,000,000
Dr. Gero: 80,000,000

Vegeta Vs Andriod 18
Vegeta: 10,800,000
SS Vegeta: 324,000,000
Andriod 18: (Not Trying): 325,000,000
Andriod 18 (Full Power): 525,000,000

Cell Saga

Piccolo Vs Imperfect Cell
Piccolo (Merged With Kami, With Weights): 420,000,000
Imperfect Cell: 375,000,000

Piccolo vs Andriod 17
Piccolo (Without Weights, Full-Power): 546,000,000
Hellzone Grenade: 600,000,000
Andriod 17: 545,000,000

Imperfect Cell Arrives
Piccolo: 546,000,000
Makosen: 700,000,000
Andriod 17: 545,000,000
Andriod 18: 525,000,000
Andriod 16: 800,000,000
Hell Flash: 850,000,000
Imperfect Cell (Post Absorbing Humans): 810,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell (Supressed) : 1,500,000,000
Tenshinhan: 6,000,000
Kikoho (Each): 600,000,000

Vegeta and Trunks Vs Semi-Perfect/Perfect Cell
Vegeta (Post RoSaT Training): 122,000,000
SS Vegeta :2,440,000,000
Ascended SS Vegeta :3,660,000,000
Final Flash: 5,800,000,000
Trunks (Post RoSaT Training): 120,000,000
SS Trunks 2,400,000,000
Ascended SS Trunks : 3,600,000,000
USS Trunks: 4,080,000,000
USS Trunks (More Buff): 4,560,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell (Supressed) : 1,500,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell (Full Power): 2,500,000,000
Perfect Cell (Supressed): 4,300,000,000
Perfect Cell (Supressed, Buff): 8,170,000,000

Cell Games Saga and Great Saiyaman Saga

Spoiler:

Cell Games Saga

Goku & Gohan Emerge From The Room Of Spirt!
Son Goku (Post RoSaT Training): 900,000,000
Son Gohan (Post RoSaT Training): 1,600,000,000

The Cell Games!

Hercule Rises To The Challenge!
Hercule: 17
Perfect Cell (Supressed): 4,550,000,000

Goku VS Cell
MSS Son Goku (50%): 4,500,000,000
MSS Son Goku (100%): 9,000,000,000
Warp Kamehameha: 20,700,000,000
Perfect Cell (Supressed): 4,550,000,000
Perfect Cell (Less Supressed): 9,100,000,000

Gohan VS Cell
MSS Son Gohan (Supressed): 4,000,000,000
MSS Son Gohan (100%): 17,750,000,000
Perfect Cell (Less Supressed against Gohan): 17,000,000,000

The Cell Juniors Attack!
MSS Son Goku (Tired): 1,000,000,000
Vegeta (Post 2nd RoSaT Training): 502,000,000
SS Vegeta: 5,020,000,000
Trunks (Post 2nd RoSaT Training): 500,000,000
SS Trunks: 5,000,000,000
Piccolo (Post RoSaT Training, With Weights): 600,000,000
Piccolo (Without Weights): 780,000,000
Yamcha: 4,500,000
Krillin: 8,000,000
Tenshinhan: 6,000,000
Cell Jr.'s (Each): 5,200,000,000

Gohan Snaps!
MSS Son Gohan: 17,750,000,000
SS2 Son Gohan: 71,000,000,000
Cell Jr.'s (Each): 5,200,000,000
Perfect Cell: 17,000,000,000
Perfect Cell (Full-Power): 28,000,000,000
Perfect Cell (Extremly Buff): 53,200,000,000
Semi Perfect Cell: 2,500,000,000
Self-Destruction: 80,000,000,000

Gohan Kills Cell!
SS2 Son Gohan: 71,000,000,000
SS2 Son Gohan (Injured): 35,500,000,000
Father-Son Kamehameha: 81,650,000,000
Super Perfect Cell: 70,000,000,000
Solar Kamehameha: 161,000,000,000
Solar Kamehameha (Distracted by Vegeta): 50,000,000,000

Trunks Returns To The Past
Trunks: 500,000,000
SS Trunks: 5,000,000,000
Future Andriod 18: 310,000,000
Future Andriod 17: 330,000,000
Trunks (Post 3 Years of Training): 800,000,000
SS Trunks: 8,000,000,000
Future Imperfect Cell: 810,000,000

Great Saiyaman Saga

The Otherworld Tournament
Freeza (1%): 2,800,000
King Cold: 97,000,000
Super Perfect Cell (Supressed): 1,000,000,000
Son Goku (Post-Training): 4,800,000,000
MSS Son Goku: 24,000,000,000
Super Kaioken: 48,000,000,000
Paikuhan (With Weights, Supressed): 5,000,000,000
Paikuhan (Without Weights, Full-Power): 24,000,000,000
Olibu: 3,000,000,000

7 Years Later
Hercule (Post-Training): 19
Videl: 22
Son Gohan: 900,000,000
MSS Son Gohan (25%): 2,250,000,000
Son Goten: 375,000,000
SS Son Goten: 1,875,000,000
Trunks 377,000,000
SS Trunks: 1,885,000,000
Vegeta (Post-Training): 3,500,000,000
SS Vegeta: 17,500,000,000

World Tournament Saga and Babidi Saga

Spoiler:

World Tournament Saga

The 25th World Tournament Begins!
Son Goku: 4,800,000,000
Vegeta: 3,500,000,000
Son Gohan: 900,000,000
MSS Son Gohan (Angry): 13,500,000,000
SS2 Son Gohan: 36,000,000,000
Son Goten: 350,000,000
SS Son Goten: 1,750,000,000
Trunks 352,000,000
SS Trunks: 1,760,000,000
Piccolo (Post-Training, With Weights): 1,200,000,000
Piccolo (Post-Training, Without Weights): 1,560,000,000
Kaioshin: 1,200,000,000
Kibito: 132,000,000
Krillin: 90,000,000
Yamcha: 10,000,000
Andriod 18: 525,000,000
Videl (Post-Training): 23
Hercule: 19
Spopvich (Supressed): 18
Spopvich (Full-Power): 25.5
Yamu: 24.7

Babidi Saga

Vegeta Vs Pui Pui
Vegeta: 3,500,000,000
Pui-Pui: 1,500,000,000

Goku Vs Yakon
Son Goku: 4,800,000,000
MSS Son Goku: 22,500,000,000
SS2 Burst Goku: 48,000,000,000
Yakon: 4,700,000,000

Gohan Vs Dabura
MSS Son Gohan: 9,000,000,000
Dabura: 9,100,000,000

Majin Buu Saga and Fusion Saga

Spoiler:

Majin Buu Saga

Majin Buu Awakens!
Majin Buu (Initial): 30,000,000,000
Dabura: 9,100,000,000
MSS Son Gohan: 9,000,000,000
Kaioshin: 1,200,000,000
Majin Buu (More Powerful): 50,000,000,000

Goku Vs Majin Vegeta
Son Goku: 4,800,000,000
MSS Son Goku: 24,000,000,000
SS2 Son Goku: 72,000,000,000
Majin Vegeta: 4,800,000,000
SS Majin Vegeta: 24,000,000,000
SS2 Majin Vegeta: 72,000,000,000

Majin Vegeta Vs Majin Buu
SS2 Majin Vegeta: 72,000,000,000
Final Explosion: 180,000,000,000
Majin Buu: 48,000,000,000
Majin Buu (Angry): 98,000,000,000

Goku Vs Majin Buu
Son Goku: 4,800,000,000
SS Son Goku: 24,000,000,000
SS2 Son Goku: 72,000,000,000
SS3 Son Goku (Supressed): 160,000,000,000
Majin Buu: 98,000,000,000

Gotenks Vs Majin Buu
Gotenks: 75,000,000,000
SS Gotenks: 375,000,000,000
Majin Buu: 98,000,000,000
Post Z-Sword Gohan: 2,700,000,000
SSJ Post Z-Sword Gohan: 27,000,000,000

The Buu's Split!
Majin Buu (Very Angry) 250,000,000,000
Good Buu: 100,000,000,000
Evil Buu: 150,000,000,000
Super Buu (Supressed): 550,000,000,000

Fusion Saga

Gotenks Vs Super Buu
Son Goten (Post RoSaT Training): 2,800,000,000
Trunks (Post RoSaT Training): 2,800,000,000
Gotenks: 560,000,000,000
SS Gotenks: 2,800,000,000,000
SS2 Gotenks: 8,400,000,000,000 (Hypothetically)
SS3 Gotenks: 33,600,000,000,000
Super Buu (Supressed): 550,000,000,000
Super Buu (Less Supressed): 4,200,000,000,000
Super Buu (Full Power): 33,000,000,000,000

Mystic Gohan Vs Super Buu
Mystic Gohan: 47,000,000,000,000
Super Buu: 33,000,000,000,000
Super Buu: (SS3 Gotenks + Piccolo): 66,601,200,000,000
Super Buu: (Goten + Trunks + Piccolo): 33,006,800,000,000
Tenshinhan: 70,000,000
Kikoho: 7,000,000,000
Kibitoshin: 58,608,000,000

Vegito Vs Super Buu
Son Goku: 4,800,000,000,000
Vegeta: 4,800,000,000,000
Vegito: 76,800,000,000,000
SS Vegito : 384,000,000,000,000
Super Buu (Gohan + Goten + Trunks + Piccolo): 80,006,800,000,000

Goku Vs Kid Buu
Goku: 4,800,000,000
SS3 Son Goku (Not at Full Power): 210,000,000,000
SS3 Son Goku (Full Power): 288,000,000,000 (Had his full power for a very short time)
Vegeta: 4,800,000,000
SS2 Vegeta: 72,000,000,000
Good Buu: 100,000,000,000
Kid Buu: 210,000,000,000
Super Genkai Dama: 500,000,000,000

10 Years Later
Son Goku (Post-Training): 210,000,000,000
Uub (Scared): 1,000,000
Uub (Enraged): 210,000,000,000
Son Gohan: 47,000,000,000,000 (His PL is the same because his power is still unlocked)
Son Goten (Post Training): 15,000,000,000
Trunks (Post-Training): 15,000,000,000
Son Pan: 1,000,000,000
Piccolo (With Weights, Post-Training): 6,000,000,000
Vegeta (Post-Training): 170,000,000,000
Krillin: 90,000,000
Andriod 18: 525,000,000
Good Buu: 100,000,000,000

DBZ Specials

Bardock, The Father Of Goku and Trunks, The Lone Warrior

Spoiler:

Bardock, The Father Of Goku

Takeover of Planet Kanassan
Bardock: 7,800
Oozaru Bardock: 78,000
Tora: 3,500
Oozaru Toru: 35,000
Borgos: 2,900
Oozaru Borgos: 29,000
Serpia: 1,900
Oozaru Serpia: 19,000
Shugesh: 2,300
Oozaru Shugesh: 23,000
Kanassan Warriors: 8,000

Bardock's Rebelion
Kid Vegeta: 12,000
Nappa: 5,000
King Vegeta: 10,000
Dodoria's Men: 4,500
Dodoria: 18,700
Bardock (Zenkai): 9,800
Freeza: 530,000

Trunks, The Lone Warrior

Son Goku is Dead!
Future Goku: 5,000,000
Future Kid Gohan: 800,000

The Andriods Appear!
Future Vegeta: 4,500,000
SS Future Vegeta: 180,000,000
Future Piccolo: 4,000,000
Future Tien: 950,000
Future Krillin: 780,000
Future Yamcha: 680,000
Future Andriod 18: 310,000,000
Future Andriod 17: 330,000,000

A Dark Future
Future Young Trunks: 50,000
Future Gohan: 3,200,000
SS Future Gohan: 128,000,000
Future Andriod 18 (38%): 117,800,000
Future Andriod 17 (38%): 125,400,000

1 Year Later
Future Young Trunks (Post-Training): 93,000
SS Future Young Trunks: 3,720,000
Future Gohan (Post-Training): 3,750,000
SS Future Gohan: 150,000,000
Future Andriod 18: 310,000,000
Future Andriod 17: 330,000,000

Trunks's Failed Revenge
Future Trunks (Post-Training): 3,800,000
SS Future Trunks: 152,000,000
Future Andriod 18: 310,000,000
Future Andriod 17: 330,000,000

DBZ Movies

Movie 1: Dead Zone and Garlic Jr. Saga

Spoiler:

Movie 1
Goku: 416
Chi-Chi: 130
Gohan: 1
Gohan (Angry): 900
Gohan (More Angry): 1,800
Krillin: 206
Piccolo (With Weights): 322
Piccolo (Without Weights): 408
Kami: 270
Garlic Jr.: 220
Garlic Jr. (Eternal Life): 450
Garlic Jr. (Post-Transformation): 600
Garlic Jr. (Dead Zone): 1,000
Nicky: 180
Nicky (Full Power): 280
Sansho: 190
Sansho (Full Power): 290
Ginger: 200
Ginger (Full Power): 300

Garlic Jr. Saga
Coming Soon!

Movie 2: World's Strongest and Movie 3: Tree Of Might

Spoiler:

Movie 2
Master Roshi: 140
Misokattsun (Supressed): 120
Ebirurya (Supressed): 120
Kishime (Supressed): 120
Goku: 8,200
Kaioken x2: 16,400
Kaioken x3: 24,600
Kaioken x4: 32,800
Kaioken x4 Kamehameha: 75,440
Spirt Bomb (1st): 40,000
Spirt Bomb (2nd): 200,000
Gohan (Heavily Supressed: 20
Gohan (Full Power): 3,000
Gohan (Angry): 15,000
Krillin: 2,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 2,400
Piccolo (Without Weights): 3,120
Dr. Kochin: 3.8
Biomen: 200
Misokattsun: 9,000
Ebirurya: 6,500
Kishime: 7,300
Dr. Wheelo: 70,000
Dr. Wheelo (Angry): 80,000

Movie 3
Goku: 30,000
Kaioken x2: 60,000
Kaioken x10: 300,000
Spirt Bomb: 500,000
Larger Spirt Bomb: 3,000,000
Gohan: 10,000
Gohan (Weakned): 6,000
Oozaru Gohan (Weakned): 60,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 18,000
Piccolo (Without Weights): 23,400
Chiatzou: 4,500
Yamcha: 7,000
Krillin: 8,000
Tien: 9,000
Amond: 15,000
Kakao: 11,000
Daiz: 13,000
Crusher Bros: 6,000 (Each)
Turles: 85,000
Kill Driver: 140,000
Turles (Post Fruit): 850,000
Turles (Post 2nd Fruit): 1,400,000

Movie 4: Lord Slug and Movie 5: Cooler's Revenge

Spoiler:

Movie 4
Goku (Supressed): 65,000
Goku (Full Power): 90,000
Kaioken x20: 1,800,000
FSS Goku: 4,500,000
Spirt Bomb: 10,000,000
Gohan: 30,000
Krillin: 29,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 47,000
Piccolo (Without Weights): 61,100
Zeun: 50,000
Angira: 44,000
Doradobo: 38,000
Medamatcha: 33,000
Mini Medamatchas: 4,000 (Each)
Slug (Old): 100,000
Slug (Young): 470,000
Giant Slug: 1,700,000
Giant Slug (Distracted): 800,000

Movie 5
Goku 6,250,000
Kaioken x10: 62,500,000
Kaioken x10 Kamehameha: 143,750,000
SS Goku: 250,000,000
Gohan: 900,000
Krillin: 840,000
Piccolo 4,200,000
Dore: 1,000,000
Neiz: 1,500,000
Salza: 2,800,000
Cooler (4%): 6,800,000
Cooler (100%): 170,000,000
5th Form Cooler: 190,000,000
Supernova: 240,000,000

Movie 6: Return of Cooler and Movie 7: Super Andriod 13

Spoiler:

Movie 6
Cooler's Guards: 9,900,000
Gohan: 8,500,000
Krillin: 8,000,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 120,000,000
Piccolo (Without Weights): 156,000,000
Goku: 10,200,000
Kaioken x10: 102,000,000
SS Goku: 306,000,000
Vegeta: 10,800,000
SS Vegeta: 324,000,000
Combined Attack: 630,000,000
Meta Cooler (Initital): 250,000,000
Meta Cooler (Repaired): 420,000,000
Meta Cooler's Head: 20,000,000

Movie 7
Goku: 15,000,000
SS Goku: 450,000,000
Spirt Bomb: 800,000,000
Spirt Bomb Absorbed: 1,250,000,000
Vegeta: 14,500,000
SS Vegeta: 435,000,000
Trunks: 14,000,000
SS Trunks: 420,000,000
Gohan: 9,000,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 455,000,000
Piccolo (Without Weights): 591,500,000
Krillin: 8,000,000
Andriod 14 (Supressed): 22,000,000
Andriod 14 (Full Power): 410,000,000
Andriod 15 (Supressed): 26,000,000
Andriod 15 (Full Power): 420,000,000
Andriod 13 (Supressed): 30,000,000
Andriod 13 (Full Power): 480,000,000
Super 13: 730,000,000

Movie 8: Broly, The Legendary Super Saiyan and Movie 9: Bojack Unbound

Spoiler:

Movie 8
Goku: 900,000,000
MSS Goku: 9,000,000,000
Kamehameha: 16,200,000,000
Combined Powers (Goku + Gohan + Piccolo + Trunks): 23,580,000,000
Combined Powers (Goku + Gohan + Piccolo + Trunks + Vegeta): 28,600,000,000
Vegeta: 502,000,000
SS Vegeta: 5,020,000,000
Trunks: 500,000,000
SS Trunks: 5,000,000,000
Gohan: 880,000,000
MSS Gohan: 8,800,000,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 600,000,000
Piccolo (Without Weights): 780,000,000
Paragus: 2,000
Broly: 1,000,000,000
RSS Broly (Initital): 918,000,000
RSS Broly (Less Restricted): 9,180,000,000
SS Broly: 10,000,000,000
LSS Broly: 25,000,000,000
LSS Broly (Limits Reached): 28,000,000,000

Movie 9
Hercule: 17
Krillin: 200,000,000
Tien: 500,000,000
Yamcha: 100,000,000
Piccolo (With Weights): 600,000,000
Piccolo (Without Weights): 780,000,000
Trunks: 500,000,000
SS Trunks: 5,000,000,000
Vegeta: 502,000,000
SS Vegeta: 5,020,000,000
Gohan: 1,775,000,000
MSS Gohan: 17,750,000,000
MSS Gohan (Weakened): 9,800,000,000
SS2 Gohan: 71,000,000,000
Doskoi: 25
Zangya: 9,000,000,000
Bido: 7,000,000,000
Bujin: 5,000,000,000
Gokua: 550,000,000
Gokua (Post-Transformation): 3,000,000,000
Bojack: 12,000,000,000
Bojack (Post-Transformation): 19,000,000,000
Goku: 900,000,000

Movie 10: Broly, Second Coming and Movie 11: Bio Broly

Spoiler:

Movie 10
Gohan: 3,000,000,000
MSS Gohan: 15,000,000,000
SS2 Gohan: 45,000,000,000
Goten: 375,000,000
SS Goten: 1,875,000,000
Goku: 4,800,000,000
MSS Goku: 24,000,000,000
Family Kamehameha (MSS Goku + SS2 Gohan + SS Goten): 163,012,500,000
Trunks 377,000,000
SS Trunks: 1,885,000,000
Videl: 23
Krillin: 90,000,000
Piccolo: 1,000,000,000
SS Broly (Supressed): 3,500,000,000
SS Broly: 28,000,000,000
LSS Broly: 70,000,000,000
Omega Blaster: 164,000,000,000
Omega Blaster (Distracted By Trunks): 100,000,000,000

Movie 11
Hercule: 19
Andriod 18: 525,000,000
Krillin: 90,000,000
Goten: 375,000,000
SS Goten: 1,875,000,000
Enraged SS Goten: 2,000,000,000
Trunks 377,000,000
SS Trunks: 1,885,000,000
Bio Clones: 1,000
Bio Broly: 190,000,000
SS Bio Broly: 950,000,000
LSS Bio Broly: 1,900,000,000
Goku: 4,800,000,000
SS Goku: 24,000,000,000 (Not Shown In The Movie)
SS2 Goku: 72,000,000,000 (Not Shown In The Movie)

Movie 12: Fusion Reborn and Movie 13: Wrath Of The Dragon

Spoiler:

Movie 12
Gohan: 900,000,000
Videl: 23
Hercule: 19
Freeza (1%): 2,800,000
Goten: 375,000,000
SS Goten: 1,875,000,000
Trunks 377,000,000
SS Trunks: 1,885,000,000
SS Gotenks: 375,000,000,000
Adolf Hitler: 5.5
Goku: 14,000,000,000
SS2 Goku: 210,000,000,000
SS3 Goku: 840,000,000,000
Vegeta: 4,800,000,000
SS2 Vegeta: 72,000,000,000
Veku: 24,000,000
Gogeta: 19,200,000,000,000
SS Gogeta: 96,000,000,000,000
Multi Janembas: 1,000,000,000
Fat Janemba: 650,000,000,000
Super Janemba (Heavily Supressed): 850,000,000,000
Super Janemba (Less Supressed): 1,800,000,000,000
Super Janemba (Full Power): 19,500,000,000,000

Movie 13
Goku: 1,200,000,000,000
SS2 Goku: 18,000,000,000,000
SS3 Goku: 72,000,000,000,000
Dragonfist: 300,000,000,000,000
Goten: 2,800,000,000
SS Goten: 14,000,000,000
Trunks: 2,800,000,000
SS Trunks: 14,000,000,000
SS3 Gotenks: 33,600,000,000,000
Mystic Gohan: 47,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 1,000,000,000,000
SS2 Vegeta: 15,000,000,000
Krillin: 90,000,000
Tapion: 5,000,000,000
Hirudegarn (Lower Half): 55,000,000,000,000
Hirudegarn (Full Body): 110,000,000,000,000
Hirudegarn (Post-Transformation): 190,000,000,000,000

Movie 14: Battle of Gods

Spoiler:

Goku: 210,000,000,000
MSS Goku: 840,000,000,000
SS2 Goku: 2,100,000,000,000
SS3 Goku: 7,350,000,000,000
SSG Goku: 735,500,000,000,000
Vegeta: 170,000,000,000
SS Vegeta: 680,000,000,000
SS2 Vegeta: 1,700,000,000,000
SS2 Enraged Vegeta: 340,000,000,000,000 (A lot of haxing for Vegeta if you ask me)
Mystic Gohan: 47,000,000,000,000
SS Mystic Gohan: 188,000,000,000,000
Goten: 60,000,000,000
SS Goten: 40,000,000,000
Trunks: 60,000,000,000
SS Trunks: 40,000,000,000
Gotenks: 3,000,000,000,000
SS Gotenks: 12,000,000,000,000
SS2 Gotenks: 30,000,000,00,000
SS3 Gotenks: 105,000,000,000,000
Good Buu: 100,000,000,000
Kibitoshin: 58,608,000,000
Piccolo: 4,000,000,000
Andriod 18: 525,000,000
Krillin: 90,000,000
Tien: 70,000,000
Billis: 1,050,000,000,000,000
Whis: 6,000,000,000,000,000

DBGT

Black-Star Dragon Ball Saga and Baby Saga

Spoiler:

Black-Star Dragon Ball Saga

A Devastating Wish
Goku : 19,000,000,000,000
Uub: 19,000,000,000,000
Pan: 1,500,000,000,000
Trunks: 670,000,000,000
SS Trunks: 1,675,000,000,000
Kibitoshin: 72,600,000,000

Space Adventures
Sheela: 80,000,000
Gale: 90,000,000
Goku: 19,000,000,000,000
SS Goku: 47,500,000,000,000
Ledgic: 20,000,000,000,000

Goku, Pan, and Trunks Vs The Sigma Force
Goku: 90,000,000,000,000
Pan: 1,500,000,000,000
Trunks: 670,000,000,000
Nutt: 55,000,000,000,000
Velse: 57,000,000,000,000
Neji: 59,000,000,000,000
Sigma Cannon Force: 70,000,000,000,000

Goku Vs Rildo
Goku: 90,000,000,000,000
SS Goku: 225,000,000,000,000
Pan: 1,500,000,000,000
Pan (Enraged): 100,000,000,000,000
Trunks: 670,000,000,000
SS Trunks: 1,675,000,000,000
Rildo: 82,000,000,000,000
Rlido (1st Transformation): 140,000,000,000,000
Rildo(2nd Transformation): 220,000,000,000,000
Dr. Myuu: 50,000,000
Infant Baby: 90,000,000,000

Baby Saga

Goten Vs Baby
Goten: 670,000,000,000
SS Goten: 1,675,000,000,000
Kamehameha: 3,852,500,000,000
Teen Baby (Supressed): 300,000,000,000
Teen Baby (Full Power): 10,000,000,000,000

Gohan Vs Baby Goten
Baby Goten: 5,000,000,000,000
SS Baby Goten: 12,500,000,000,000
Self-Destruct Attempt: 70,000,000,000,000
Gohan: 67,000,000,000,000
SS Gohan: 167,500,000,000,000
Piccolo (With Weights, Post-Training): 100,000,000,000,000

Vegeta Vs Baby Gohan & Goten
Baby Gohan: 71,000,000,000,000
SS Baby Gohan: 177,500,000,000,000
Goten (Baby possesed): 670,000,000,000
Vegeta : 80,000,000,000,000
SS Vegeta: 200,000,000,000,000

Goku Vs Baby Vegeta
Goku: 90,000,000,000,000
SS3 Goku: 371,250,000,000,000
Baby Vegeta: 380,000,000,000,000
Super Baby Vegeta: 480,000,000,000,000
Final Form Baby Vegeta: 550,000,000,000,000

Uub Vs Baby Vegeta
Uub: (Post-Training): 60,000,000,000,000
Good Buu: 100,000,000,000
Super Uub: 600,000,000,000,000
Final Form Baby Vegeta (Supressed): 70,000,000,000,000
Final Form Baby Vegeta: 550,000,000,000,000

SS4 Goku vs Baby Vegeta
Oozaru Goku: 950,000,000,000,000
Golden Oozaru Goku: 7,000,000,000,000,000
SS4 Goku: 7,000,000,000,000,000
Final Form Baby Vegeta: 550,000,000,000,000
Golden Oozaru Baby Vegeta: 7,000,000,000,000,000
Pan (Enraged): 100,000,000,000,000
Adult Baby: 90,000,000,000,000

Super 17 Saga and Shadow Dragon Saga

Spoiler:

Super 17 Saga

Villians Return!
Goku (Post-Training): 600,000,000,000,000
Frieza (Post-Training): 93,000,000,000,000
Super Perfect Cell (Post-Training): 98,000,000,000,000
Saibamen: 1,200
Nappa (Post-Training): 100,000
Vegeta (Post-Training): 380,000,000,000,000
Gohan: 90,000,000,000,000
Rildo: 90,000,000,000,000
Piccolo (With Weights, Post-Training): 600,000,000,000,000

Super 17 Is Formed!
Krillin: 90,000,000
Andriod 18: 545,000,000
Andriod 17: 525,000,000
Hell Fighter 17: 200,000,000,000,000
Super 17 (Initial): 2,300,000,000,000,000
Pan: 7,000,000,000,000
Goten: 670,000,000,000
SS Goten: 1,675,000,000,000
Trunks: 670,000,000,000
SS Trunks: 1,675,000,000,000
Gohan: 90,000,000,000,000
SS Gohan: 225,000,000,000,000
Vegeta: 380,000,000,000,000
SS Vegeta: 950,000,000,000,000
SS2 Vegeta: 1,045,000,000,000,000
Super Uub (Post-Training): 900,000,000,000,000

Goku Vs Super 17
Goku: 600,000,000,000,000
SS Goku: 1,500,000,000,000,000
Super Kamehameha: 3,450,000,000,000,000
SS4 Goku: 30,000,000,000,000,000
10x Kamehameha: 69,000,000,000,000,000
Super 17 (Initial): 2,300,000,000,000,000
Super 17 (Super Kamehameha absorbed): 5,750,000,000,000,000
Super 17: (10x Kamehameha absorbed): 74,750,000,000,000,000
Super 17 (Distracted by 18): 100,000,000,000,000
Goku (Injured): 10,000,000,000,000
Dragonfist: 1,000,000,000,000,000

Shadow Dragon Saga

The Shadow Dragons Appear!
Goku: (Post-Training): 2,500,000,000,000,000
SS4 Goku: 80,000,000,000,000,000
10x Kamehameha: 184,000,000,000,000,000
Pan: 12,000,000,000,000
Haze Shenron: 70
Rage Shenron: 600,000,000,000
Rage Shenron (Powered Up): 200,000,000,000,000,000
Oceanus Shenron: 2,300,000,000,000,000
Naturon Shenron: 50,000
Naturon Shenron (Pan Absorbed): 200,000,000,000,000,000
Naturon Shenron (True Form): 1,000
Nuova Shenron: 7,500,000,000,000,000
Nuova Shenron (True Form): 75,000,000,000,000,000
Eis Shenron: 60,000,000,000,000,000
Syn Shenron: 250,000,000,000,000,000

Z-Fighters Vs Omega Shenron
SS4 Goku (Beyond Limits): 500,000,000,000,000,000
Dragonfist: 2,000,000,000,000,000,000
Omega Shenron: 2,500,000,000,000,000,000
Goten: 670,000,000,000
SS Goten: 1,675,000,000,000
Trunks: 670,000,000,000
SS Trunks: 1,675,000,000,000
Gohan: 90,000,000,000,000
SS Gohan: 225,000,000,000,000
Super Uub (Post-Training): 1,000,000,000,000,000

SS4 Gogeta Vs Omega Shenron
Vegeta (Post-Training): 800,000,000,000,000
Oozaru Vegeta (Blutz Waves): 8,000,000,000,000,000
Golden Oozaru Vegeta (Blutz Waves): 30,000,000,000,000,000
SS4 Vegeta (Blutz Waves): 30,000,000,000,000,000
SS4 Goku (Supressed): 30,000,000,000,000,000
SS4 Gogeta: 6,000,000,000,000,000,000
Big Bang Kamehameha: 13,800,000,000,000,000,000
Omega Shenron: 2,500,000,000,000,000,000
Nuova Shenron: 75,000,000,000,000,000

The Universal Genkai Dama!
SS2 Vegeta: 2,200,000,000,000,000
Omega Shenron: 2,500,000,000,000,000,000
Universal Genkai Dama: 100,000,000,000,000,000,000

100 Years Later
Goku Jr.: 100
SS Goku Jr.: 5,000
Vegeta Jr.: 100
SS Vegeta Jr.: 5,000
Pan: 500,000,000
Goku (Post 100 Years of Training): 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku's weaker than Freeza in base. SSJ2 is also 2x SSJ according to the Super Exciting Guide.

[Gogeta8001]

Goku's weaker than Freeza in base. SSJ2 is also 2x SSJ according to the Super Exciting Guide.

Theres nothing to back up Frieza > Base Saiyans other than BoG which was filled with inconsistinsies. All evidence in the manga would suggest otherwise.

SEG's numbers are wack IMO. SSJ2 needs to be bigger than 2x SSJ if Gohan was able to have the sheer advantage he had over FP Perfect Cell.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku's weaker than Freeza in base. SSJ2 is also 2x SSJ according to the Super Exciting Guide.

Theres nothing to back up Freeza > Base Saiyans other than BoG which was filled with inconsistinsies. All evidence in the manga would suggest otherwise.

SEG's numbers are wack IMO. SSJ2 needs to be bigger than 2x SSJ if Gohan was able to have the sheer advantage he had over FP Perfect Cell.

It was created as a continuation of the manga and the manga has far more inconsistencies than BoG. 2 times works. There's really no need to change it.

[Gogeta8001]

Goku's weaker than Freeza in base. SSJ2 is also 2x SSJ according to the Super Exciting Guide.

Theres nothing to back up Freeza > Base Saiyans other than BoG which was filled with inconsistinsies. All evidence in the manga would suggest otherwise.

SEG's numbers are wack IMO. SSJ2 needs to be bigger than 2x SSJ if Gohan was able to have the sheer advantage he had over FP Perfect Cell.

It was created as a continuation of the manga and the manga has far more inconsistencies than BoG. 2 times works. There's really no need to change it.

The manga has more inconsistencies? You do realize that the manga is more canon than BoG will ever dream to be. Regardless if it's canon or not.

But now that were on the topic of BoG, I think you should read this thread I made sometime ago.

http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8429233/1/

2x doesn't work if your going to fill in the huge gaps between MSSJ Gohan, FP Perfect Cell, Buff Cell, Super Perfect Cell, and SSJ2 Kid Gohan. I don't see why these multipliers are even regarded as official. Is SEG written by somone close to Toriyama or something?

[TheMightyOzaru]

There is no freaking canon . I get so tired of this whole canon argument. Where is it stated that something is canon and something isn't when it comes to Dragon Ball? I'll tell you. Nowhere! Whether you like it or not, GT and Battle of Gods exist. There are statements that are made and there is power scaling to follow. How you decipher that is entirely up to you, but claiming what Battle of Gods states is bull shit because it's "non canon" is bull shit in and of itself because there's no canon to begin with. The SEG is a guide book like the Daizenshuu, and many people here have made the 2 times multiplier work. Gohan also doesn't have to be exactly 2 times. It's stated that his power increased through anger. It can be a 4 times boost for him if you really think that's necessary.

[Gogeta8001]

There is no freaking canon . I get so tired of this whole canon argument. Where is it stated that something is canon and something isn't when it comes to Dragon Ball? I'll tell you. Nowhere! Whether you like it or not, GT and Battle of Gods exist. There are statements that are made and there is power scaling to follow. How you decipher that is entirely up to you, but claiming what Battle of Gods states is bull shit because it's "non canon" is bull shit in and of itself because there's no canon to begin with. The SEG is a guide book like the Daizenshuu, and many people here have made the 2 times multiplier work. Gohan also doesn't have to be exactly 2 times. It's stated that his power increased through anger. It can be a 4 times boost for him if you really think that's necessary.

This isn't a debate about whether or not BoG is canon. As much as I hate to say it, BoG is canon. I'm just saying that even though BoG is apart of Toriyamas work, the manga that he originally wrote should take preccedent over what he did in that one movie. It was already established that Base Kids could hold their own against #18 who was clearly superior to Frieza (this was before Goten and Trunks went into the RoSaT). Base Goku and Base Vegeta beat foes that Kaioshin was crapping his pants against. WIth that, you get something like...

Base Goku > Yakon >> Base Vegeta >>> Pui-Pui > Kaioshin ~ Piccolo >>> #18 > Base Kids >> Frieza

Billis statement about Goku being weaker then Frieza can easily be percived in different ways. Check out the link I posted and you'll know what I mean.

I never said that it couldn't work. I just said you needed a bigger multiplier to make the gaps make sense. FP Perfect Cell had a huge lead over all the Z-Fighters that were present in the Cell Games. Top that off with his power weighted form and his post Zenkai form, that's a huge gap to fill. Having SSJ2 4x SSJ satisfies that (note that my SSJ2 multiplier drops to 3x in the Buu Saga and in GT, it's 1.1x SSJ).

Of course, theres a lot of ways you can make SSJ2 being 2x SSJ work as well. That goes without saying.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The manga also suggests base Gohan is above Piccolo, even though that's bull shit . The Buu arc is full of outlandish statements and suggestions, and lolno. Kaioshin states that he is surpassed by Goku when he goes SSJ. Goku isn't stronger than Kaioshin in base.
Kaioshin > Piccolo > Yakon > C-18 > Freeza > Base Goku > Base Vegeta > Base Gohan > Base Kid Trunks > Base Goten >>>>> Pui Pui. I honestly don't think there's a way around Beers' statement about Goku. Goku doesn't argue with it and Goku argued with Tarble when he claimed Goku was weak. it's also clear Beers can sense energy. He sensed SSJ3 Goku just fine.

[Gogeta8001]

The manga also suggests base Gohan is above Piccolo, even though that's bull shit . The Buu arc is full of outlandish statements and suggestions, and lolno. Kaioshin states that he is surpassed by Goku when he goes SSJ. Goku isn't stronger than Kaioshin in base.
Kaioshin > Piccolo > Yakon > C-18 > Freeza > Base Goku > Base Vegeta > Base Gohan > Base Kid Trunks > Base Goten >>>>> Pui Pui. I honestly don't think there's a way around Beers' statement about Goku. Goku doesn't argue with it and Goku argued with Tarble when he claimed Goku was weak. it's also clear Beers can sense energy. He sensed SSJ3 Goku just fine.

I don't think it was ever implied that Base Gohan > Piccolo being that he got weaker from the Cell Games to the 25th Budokai Tenkachi.

Kaioshin was suprised by everything. He's suprised that Vegeta was able to kill Pui-Pui so easily even though he thought he would lose. To top it all off, he even insisted that he, Gohan, and Vegeta help Goku fight Yakon because he was scared that Goku wouldn't get the job done.

Base Goku > Yakon >> SSJ Goku (Kaioshin's expectations) > Base Vegeta >>> Pui-Pui > SSJ Vegeta (Kaioshin's expectations) > Kaioshin

I disagree. Given the context of the scene, it's very plausible that Goku could have been supressed when Billis made that statement. We've seen Goku supressed on manyvoccasions before (being @ 5,000 when confronting Vegeta/Nappa and when confronting the Ginyu Force). Whatever BoG says doesn't invalidate what was stated befofe in the manga.

I take it you don't believe Base Gotenks Post > SSJ Gotenks Pre either granted you said that the Buu Saga is full wifh outlandish suggestions.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Dabura explicitly states 3 of them possess incredible power that could revive Buu quickly. He then proceeds to stone Piccolo and Krillin and kill Kibito, implying Piccolo wasn't one of the 3. Kaioshin is a dumb ass that's scared of anything with an M on it's forehead, or in Yakon's case, his abdomen. Honestly it truly baffles me how someone can think Pui Pui, a guy that thinks 10 Gs is impressive, comes close to Krillin, let alone Kaioshin. Goku has no reason to be suppressed, he wants to impress Beers. He was also training prior to his arrival. Suppression is a rather weak excuse in the grand scheme of things.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

About Pui Pui, Yakon, Kaioshin:

There isn't any implication that Kaioshin is weaker than Pui Pui & Yakon. Kaioshin was afraid of them because he was underestimating the Saiyans (because they are mortals), and overestimating Babidi's minions (because he only collects strong fighters). He also wasn't afraid that the Saiyans would lose, what he was afraid was that they would take damage & transfer it to Boo. Kaioshin however, is stated to be stronger than Piccolo, who is stronger than the base Saiyans, but below the Super Saiyans, and his physic powers were strong enough to stop SS2 Gohan from moving. So, he is stronger than the base Saiyans, but weaker than the Super Saiyans. Which means that there isn't any implication in the manga that the base Saiyans are above Freeza.

As for Gotenks pre & post RoSaT, here is what I posted very recently:

Gotenks is a moron that believes he is the strongest, so he thinks that he got so strong that he can beat Boo in base. Piccolo sees that Gotenks powered-up through training, and he sees Gotenks' confidence that he can win. He got quickly excited, only to realize that he was a fool for thinking that Gotenks was that strong. Long story short, Piccolo made a quick & mistaken judgment for Gotenks' strength. So, depending on how you interpret the line, it doesn't necessarily mean that base Gotenks > SS Gotenks.

Is SEG written by somone close to Toriyama or something?

No, but Toriyama supervised & approved SEG.

[Gogeta8001]

Dabura explicitly states 3 of them possess incredible power that could revive Buu quickly. He then proceeds to stone Piccolo and Krillin and kill Kibito, implying Piccolo wasn't one of the 3. Kaioshin is a dumb ass that's scared of anything with an M on it's forehead, or in Yakon's case, his abdomen. Honestly it truly baffles me how someone can think Pui Pui, a guy that thinks 10 Gs is impressive, comes close to Krillin, let alone Kaioshin. Goku has no reason to be suppressed, he wants to impress Beers. He was also training prior to his arrival. Suppression is a rather weak excuse in the grand scheme of things.

Supression is a weak excuse? I don't see how it's weak when Goku has been seen supressed in the Saiyan Saga, Namek Saga, an the 2008 special. The possiblility of him being supressed isn't entirely impossibe.

But what's an even more weaker excuse is the excuse that "Kaioshin is a dumb ass that's scared of anything to do with Babidi". He downright wants Vegeta, Gohan, and himself to help Goku in his fight with Yakon. If he felt his own power was sufficient, he would have been all like "okay screw you guys Imma kill this guy with ease". That pretty much says a lot about his power.

Dabura wants to get rid of the 3 strongest fighters? So that makes Piccolo > Kibito > Krillin > Base Saiyans fact then right?

About Pui Pui, Yakon, Kaioshin:

There isn't any implication that Kaioshin is weaker than Pui Pui & Yakon. Kaioshin was afraid of them because he was underestimating the Saiyans (because they are mortals), and overestimating Babidi's minions (because he only collects strong fighters). He also wasn't afraid that the Saiyans would lose, what he was afraid was that they would take damage & transfer it to Boo. Kaioshin however, is stated to be stronger than Piccolo, who is stronger than the base Saiyans, but below the Super Saiyans, and his physic powers were strong enough to stop SS2 Gohan from moving. So, he is stronger than the base Saiyans, but weaker than the Super Saiyans. Which means that there isn't any implication in the manga that the base Saiyans are above Freeza.

As for Gotenks pre & post RoSaT, here is what I posted very recently:

Gotenks is a moron that believes he is the strongest, so he thinks that he got so strong that he can beat Boo in base. Piccolo sees that Gotenks powered-up through training, and he sees Gotenks' confidence that he can win. He got quickly excited, only to realize that he was a fool for thinking that Gotenks was that strong. Long story short, Piccolo made a quick & mistaken judgment for Gotenks' strength. So, depending on how you interpret the line, it doesn't necessarily mean that base Gotenks > SS Gotenks.

1) Read above. Even if you think Kaioshin > Piccolo, that's more the reason why Base Saiyans > Kaioshin > Piccolo.

2) How Gotenks performed against Buu isn't important. Piccolo's confidence in Gotenks is what matters.

Piccolo on SSJ Pre RoSaT Gotenks: This guy has no chance of winning! Buu is going going to kill this guy without any problems!

Piccolo on Base Post RoSaT Gotenks: This guy might have a chance of beating Buu!

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kaioshin also directly states that he's only surpassed when they go SSJ . It's a far better excuse that Goku being suppressed because Kaioshin contradicts what's clearly the case on some occasions. Kaioshin himself claimed he was above the base Saiyans, yet we see Goku casually ripping Yakon a new one. Pui Pui thinks 10 Gs is impressive, yet we know Kaioshin is stronger than Piccolo. Kaioshin is just very paranoid. Pui Pui and Yakon are far below Kaioshin. No... Dabura wants to keep the 3 strongest around... Please read my statement in it's entirety.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Read above. Even if you think Kaioshin > Piccolo, that's more the reason why Base Saiyans > Kaioshin > Piccolo.

Everyone was suppressed when they were spying Babidi & Dabra, yet they could tell who was valuable & who was trash, but without knowing how strong they were. So, since they are both magical beings, they could tell which of them had valuable energy (SS2 Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan) & which of them didn't (Piccolo & Kuririn).

How Gotenks performed against Buu isn't important. Piccolo's confidence in Gotenks is what matters.

Piccolo on SSJ Pre RoSaT Gotenks: This guy has no chance of winning! Buu is going going to kill this guy without any problems!

Piccolo on Base Post RoSaT Gotenks: This guy might have a chance of beating Buu!

It was more like this:

Piccolo on SSJ Pre RoSaT Gotenks: This guy has no chance of winning! Buu is going going to kill this guy without any problems!

Piccolo on Base Post RoSaT Gotenks: This guy might have a chance of beating Buu!... (2 seconds later)... Wait it's hopeless after all.

[TheMightyOzaru]

The scene with Piccolo and Gotenks is a gag, nothing more.

[dbzfan7]

I believe emotions can get in the way of the ability to sense ki. Piccolo thought Cell killed Gohan even though Goku pointed out Gohan was fine and that his ki hadn't dropped at all.

For BOG power levels we have this.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... -toriyama/

Compared to Beerus, God of Destruction, how strong is [Super Saiyan] God?
I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.

Also SSJ God may be a strict multiplier as it apparently is different for everyone

Is it possible that other Saiyans will be able to become [Super Saiyan] God in the future?
Of course. However, strength will vary depending on the battle power of the Saiyan who becomes [Super Saiyan] God.

[Gogeta8001]

@TheMightyOzaru

Does it matter when Kaioshin made the statement? He was just recalling evergthing that he had seen during those 2 fights and came to ths conclusion that he was surpased.

We know from direct evidence that Kaioshin wanted help from the other Saiyans in beating Yakon. If he wanted help in beating him, what makes you think he would beat Yakon by himself?

If he really felt confident that he could have beaten the two, he would have killed them on the spot instead of being scared out of his mind throughout all the fights. Pui-Pui had no idea that the Saiyans would be able to withstand 10X gravity.

As for the Dabura thing, what does that prove at all? If anything, that supports Base Saiyans > Piccolo even more because Dabura got rid of him along with Krillin and Kibito instead of going for the Saiyans.

@DBZGTKOSDH

1) Now look who's using the "supressed card". You guys were berating me for saying that Goku was supressed when Beers sensed him but now it's fine and dandy because your using it? Sorry for being rude but that's a pretty big double standard right there.

2) Your not getting what i'm saying.

Piccolo had confidence that Base Gotenks Post could stand a chance against Super Buu where as he thought SSJ Pre Gotenks wod stand no chance against. By that fact alone, we know that Base Post > SSJ Pre.

Buu's ki is a lie as stated by many of the characters. The energy Piccolo sensed from Buu is what he based his judgement on.

SSJ3 Gotenks Post ~ Super Buu (Real Power) >>>>>>>> SSJ Gotenks Post >> Base Gotenks Post ~ Super Buu (What Piccolo sensed on the lookout) >> SSJ Gotenks Pre

[Kaboom]

Not really the place to get into these kinds of debates, is it?