Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[buutenks]

Well as i wrote some pages back:

base form=ssj3 tier or so
ssj=ssj vegetto
ssj blue=god tier

Or in the 1-10 scale

base form to small to be on the 1-10 scale
ssj would be like 0.1-0.7
ssj blue 8/9

So in turn frost/base cabe r ssj3 tier max

Mageta is insanely durable but lacks the power of someone on buuhan level. so he is mostly ssj3 tier also

And hit obviously god tier.

The 2 base theory IMO should be disproven now since, vegeta went ssj blue instead of using god ki in his base form.

So this lines up with what whis stated that base saiyans r a tree compared to beerus.

If they r in the ssj3 tier range then it would make sense they would be a tree while beerus is the castle, considering beerus beat ssj3 goku with a few finger flicks.

Edit: About vegeta tanking cabes hit, cabe's punch shook the entire planet,so i doubt he was running out of energy, he only stopped and calmed down when he saw that vegeta was unphased.

Cabe was a ssj when he punched vegeta and he was a ssj after vegeta told him to remember that feeling and after that he reverted to his base form. Plus vegeta smiled and easily destroyed with one hand swipe all those ki blasts enraged cabe was firing.

Vegeta was clearly holding back allot of his power. He merely showed cabe ssj blue for cabe to see how far he can get.

[Chiki]

Having two base powers is a nightmare.

We don't have any way of knowing when they are using god ki or not in base.

Yep, it is a nightmare, but that doesn't mean it's false.

Why is it ridiculous? The only God tiers are Super Saiyan Cabba and Magetta, the rest of the fighters are around Base Goku/Vegeta level of power, which I specifically stated are around Super Boo in power. Monaka is God tier and he came out of nowhere.

I consider Goku and Vegeta to be god level since they started to be able to sense god ki. Anyone who can sense god ki through training has achieved the power of a god, but that doesn't mean they can fight against Beerus of course, in base.

How did Piccolo achieve Base Goku/Vegeta level of power in a bit of training?

Yes, Monaka came out of nowhere, but that doesn't mean it's okay to keep coming up with gods who come out of nowhere. Hit, Monaka, Goku, Vegeta, Frieza are enough. Why add Piccolo Frost etc.?

Piccolo was weaker than base Goku on Namek then suddenly got to a strength level on-par with Super Saiyans. It's not unbelievable to think he got around Super Boo's strength level considering how ridiculous his boosts in strength throughout the series were.

There's no evidence he was on par with Super Saiyans prior to absorbing Kami.

I didn't say he was God level. He was clearly much weaker than Super Saiyan Goku.

Yes, so was Namek Saga Frieza.

Btw, you haven't addressed the argument that Frost had no reason to train in U6. The manga even says that he never trains, just like Namek Saga Frieza. Why would Frost be able to reach God level without training and Frieza not be able to? If Frost is an even bigger prodigy than Frieza, why doesn't he have a Golden form?

Because they never needed Blue.

Ok, but my point is that it gives us reason to believe that Goku/Vegeta aren't using god ki at all, even in base or SS.

This is baseless speculation only because some people can't accept that the U6 characters are super strong.

The manga has already proven you wrong (Frost never trains) so it's not baseless lol.

The 2 base theory IMO should be disproven now since, vegeta went ssj blue instead of using god ki in his base form.

Um no, he was just trying to show Cabba another Super Saiyan transformation.. it doesn't disprove anything lol. He was showing Cabba the pinnacle of a Saiyan's power at that point in time.

[Doctor.]

I consider Goku and Vegeta to be god level since they started to be able to sense god ki. Anyone who can sense god ki through training has achieved the power of a god, but that doesn't mean they can fight against Beerus of course, in base.

How did Piccolo achieve Base Goku/Vegeta level of power in a bit of training?

Yes, Monaka came out of nowhere, but that doesn't mean it's okay to keep coming up with gods who come out of nowhere. Hit, Monaka, Goku, Vegeta, Frieza are enough. Why add Piccolo Frost etc.?

Do you think Kaio, Dende and the Oracle Fish are God level too? Anyone can sense God ki if they train.

Shit writing. Same way Vegeta achieved Super Saiyan God on his own.

I didn't say they were God level, you're the one who keeps bringing it up. To me, those are around the Boo forms and Vegetto in power.

There's no evidence he was on par with Super Saiyans prior to absorbing Kami.

He was destroying Dr. Gero. He gained a MASSIVE power boost regardless.

Yes, so was Namek Saga Frieza.

Btw, you haven't addressed the argument that Frost had no reason to train in U6. The manga even says that he never trains, just like Namek Saga Frieza. Why would Frost be able to reach God level without training and Frieza not be able to? If Frost is an even bigger prodigy than Frieza, why doesn't he have a Golden form?

I don't get what Namek arc Freeza has to do with anything here?

Who says Frost never trained? You're assuming things. Goku never said he didn't train, he said he could become stronger by training like Freeza did. Considering Frost was a much more active fighter than Freeza was (since he was fighting in wars, unlike Freeza who let his goons take care of everything for him), it makes sense he was much stronger than Namek arc Freeza from the get-go.

Ok, but my point is that it gives us reason to believe that Goku/Vegeta aren't using god ki at all, even in base or SS.

God Ki is ingrained into their bodies. I see no reason to believe they can turn it off at will.

The manga has already proven you wrong (Frost never trains) so it's not baseless lol.

The manga didn't prove anything. Goku assumed Frost didn't train, Frost didn't confirm it. And even if Frost never trained, it's obvious he was much, much more powerful than Freeza was on Namek. How? His assault form was on-par with base Goku. Are you telling me base Goku is in the low millions in terms of strength?

[buutenks]

It is obvious that vegeta did not use god ki,if he had his ssj form would be blue not golden. Vegeta most likely used the power he had from training with whis, which as whis stated, compared to beerus(castle), base vegeta is a mere tree.

[LowRyder2005]

The 2 base theory IMO should be disproven now since, vegeta went ssj blue instead of using god ki in his base form.

This makes no sense. The only stated purpose was that he wanted to let Cabba see him at his highest power to motivate him to train. He would have probably beaten him in Super Saiyan form if he wanted to.

[dbgtFO]

Meh, I too hold the notion that U6 fighters are absolute weaklings and even weaker than we thought. The point being that their universe is far more peaceful and so they didn't have the need to push themselves as hard as the U7 guys did. Frost has zero reason to train(he only fights evil-doers in his assault form and is probably too strong for them anyways, considering he fucking employs them) and likewise Cabba hadn't even achieved SS before the newest episode, which might imply extreme weakness, rather than extreme strength.

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan Blue
Saiyan Beyond God(only used in RoF, probably not used in Champa arc, due to its potential for creating confusion)
.
.
.
.
.
Super Saiyan Goku/Vegeta - Perhaps at SS3 tier, incorporating that power into the SS form, double mastering SS after already having done so in Cell Arc.
Mr. Buu - kicked out the tournament, because Toriyama rightly thought he'd have owned everyone bar Hit on U6's team. Was held in higher regard in RoF, Champa Arc has yet to establish him being surpassed by scrubs Piccolo and Gohan, so he gets the benefit of the doubt.
.
.
Super Saiyan Cabba - stronger than Gohan, because fuck Gohan apparently ^_^
Super Saiyan Gohan - got some fanservice training, which is probably filler. He's also nerfed, but all Super Saiyans in the main timeline surpass Freeza at the very least, even this jobber Gohan, who almost dies going Super Saiyan
.
Final Form Frost = 100% Freeza prior to RoF training, strongest hand to hand fighter according to Vados in the manga(though I probably still need a proper translation of that line, any help?) Kinda lines up with Freeza being the strongest guy in the universe outside of Gods and ancient Demons and what not.
.
Magetta - Stronger than base Saiyans, can take more punishment than Frost, because of insane durability owing to being a Metal Man and his ultimate attack is enough to trouble Super Saiyans.
Base Goku/Vegeta - Weaker than 100% Freeza in BoG and still the case in their natural base forms in U6 arc.
Base Cabba - unknown to him, he's gained enough power to become a Super Saiyan.
Base Gohan
Piccolo - nerfed, because fuck him apparently ^_^
Botamo - let's just say he's the weakest of all the competitors.

[pacz360]

It amazing how people can't accept u6 fighters being this strong i mean unless its been confirmed by tori this whole on and off god ki just sounds ridiculous.

[namekiansaiyan]

God Ki is always on and there are now only 3 forms:
They have base form
The next level is Super Saiyan
The current final form is Super Saiyan Blue
That is easy to understand.
Throughout this whole tournament people keep making excuses for characters Power level instead of using what is given in the episode.

I say:

Whis/Vados
Beerus/Champa
Hit/Monaka( Unless Beerus is lying)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Super Saiyan Goku/ Super Saiyan Vegeta/ Super Saiyan Cabba/Magetta
Frost Final Form/Piccolo
Base Goku/Base Vegeta/Base Cabba
Frost Assualt Form/Botamo
Frost First Form

It amazing how people can't accept u6 fighters being this strong i mean unless its been confirmed by tori this whole on and off god ki just sounds ridiculous.

I know I have been trying to tell everyone for weeks now..

[dbgtFO]

It amazing how people can't accept u6 fighters being this strong

And how strong is this strong? They range from being stronger than Piccolo(whose strength is not clarified compared to anything either) to being weaker than Super Saiyan Goku/Super Saiyan Vegeta. That's all we know for sure.

[namekiansaiyan]

It amazing how people can't accept u6 fighters being this strong

And how strong is this strong? They range from being stronger than Piccolo(whose strength is not clarified compared to anything either) to being weaker than Super Saiyan Goku/Super Saiyan Vegeta. That's all we know for sure.

You compare Piccolo to Final Form frost.

[ZombieVito]

God Ki is always on and there are now only 3 forms:
They have base form
The next level is Super Saiyan
The current final form is Super Saiyan Blue
That is easy to understand.
Throughout this whole tournament people keep making excuses for characters Power level instead of using what is given in the episode.

I say:

Whis/Vados
Beerus/Champa
Hit/Monaka( Unless Beerus is lying)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Super Saiyan Goku/ Super Saiyan Vegeta/ Super Saiyan Cabba/Magetta
Frost Final Form/Piccolo
Base Goku/Base Vegeta/Base Cabba
Frost Assualt Form/Botamo
Frost First Form

It amazing how people can't accept u6 fighters being this strong i mean unless its been confirmed by tori this whole on and off god ki just sounds ridiculous.

I know I have been trying to tell everyone for weeks now..

No way. Dump him a tier or two.

Cabba and Botamo should also be a tier lower.

[dbgtFO]

It amazing how people can't accept u6 fighters being this strong

And how strong is this strong? They range from being stronger than Piccolo(whose strength is not clarified compared to anything either) to being weaker than Super Saiyan Goku/Super Saiyan Vegeta. That's all we know for sure.

You compare Piccolo to Final Form frost.

Yes, Piccolo is far weaker than Frost, who's far weaker than Super Saiyan Goku/Super Saiyan Vegeta.

[TheMikado]

Question, how can they have a single God base and SSJ multiplier still be intact?
Final form Frieza was at or above Buu level which is SSJ3.
Even at 5% of Beerus for SSJ3 if Goku is now that in base, x50 SSJB would be a 25 on that God scale. That's not even SSJB yet.

[namekiansaiyan]

God Ki is always on and there are now only 3 forms:
They have base form
The next level is Super Saiyan
The current final form is Super Saiyan Blue
That is easy to understand.
Throughout this whole tournament people keep making excuses for characters Power level instead of using what is given in the episode.

I say:

Whis/Vados
Beerus/Champa
Hit/Monaka( Unless Beerus is lying)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Super Saiyan Goku/ Super Saiyan Vegeta/ Super Saiyan Cabba/Magetta
Frost Final Form/Piccolo
Base Goku/Base Vegeta/Base Cabba
Frost Assualt Form/Botamo
Frost First Form

It amazing how people can't accept u6 fighters being this strong i mean unless its been confirmed by tori this whole on and off god ki just sounds ridiculous.

I know I have been trying to tell everyone for weeks now..

No way. Dump him a tier or two.

Cabba and Botamo should also be a tier lower.

Piccolo was doing well against Frost in my opinion and Vegeta said him and Cabba are even in base.

And how strong is this strong? They range from being stronger than Piccolo(whose strength is not clarified compared to anything either) to being weaker than Super Saiyan Goku/Super Saiyan Vegeta. That's all we know for sure.

You compare Piccolo to Final Form frost.

Yes, Piccolo is far weaker than Frost, who's far weaker than Super Saiyan Goku/Super Saiyan Vegeta.

If Piccolo was far weaker than Frost he would have not been able to do what he did in his fight and to me what he did says he has to close to Frost.

[LightBing]

God Ki is always on and there are now only 3 forms:
They have base form
The next level is Super Saiyan
The current final form is Super Saiyan Blue
That is easy to understand.
Throughout this whole tournament people keep making excuses for characters Power level instead of using what is given in the episode.

I say:

Whis/Vados
Beerus/Champa
Hit/Monaka( Unless Beerus is lying)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Super Saiyan Goku/ Super Saiyan Vegeta/ Super Saiyan Cabba/Magetta
Frost Final Form/Piccolo
Base Goku/Base Vegeta/Base Cabba
Frost Assualt Form/Botamo
Frost First Form

It amazing how people can't accept u6 fighters being this strong i mean unless its been confirmed by tori this whole on and off god ki just sounds ridiculous.

I know I have been trying to tell everyone for weeks now..

The underlined part is false. Here:

Spoiler:

Episode 24
Minute: 21
Context: Goku transforms into SSGSS.

Kuririn: "I can't sense any ki from Goku at all now!"
Gohan: "It seems he's somehow become a Super Saiyan God."
Kuririn: "But Gohan, take a good look at him. Goku's hair is blue!"
Tenshinhan: "If I remember it right, it was red when he fought Beerus."
Kame-Sen'nin: "Has Goku reached a level even higher than what he was at back then?"

Freeza: "You've simply become a Super Saiyan, have you not?"
Goku: "Actually, that's not quite right. It's a little complicated and hard to explain, but... This is a Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan."

The Saiyans only have God Ki while in SSJB. It's clear. Kuririn can't sense God Ki and it's said nobody but the Gods can feel it, therefore Goku and Vegeta never had God Ki in base.

[ZombieVito]

Is it really that hard to see? Vegeta was not going all out against Cabba.

Piccolo asking Frost to change forms pretty much confirms he can't do anything to his final form except with the Makankosappo.

[Sandubadear]

So in my opinion the power hierarchy between the U6 fighters is this:

First form Frost < Botamo < Assault Frost < Cabba < True form Frost < SSJ Cabba < Magetta < Hit

Magetta gave more trouble to SSJ Vegeta than Cabba. Vegeta also said that he'd better avoid Magetta's physical blows, but he didn't have much trouble against Cabba's blows.

I'm assuming First form Frost is the weakest, but it could be Botamo since he never even bothers to attack while Frost does.

[dbgtFO]

Yes, Piccolo is far weaker than Frost, who's far weaker than Super Saiyan Goku/Super Saiyan Vegeta.

If Piccolo was far weaker than Frost he would have not been able to do what he did in his fight

But you have no proof of that.

and to me what he did says he has to close to Frost.

Yes, your interpretation, but again no proof.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

It is obvious that vegeta did not use god ki,if he had his ssj form would be blue not golden. Vegeta most likely used the power he had from training with whis, which as whis stated, compared to beerus(castle), base vegeta is a mere tree.

Was Whis's comparison made before or after the training was complete?

[namekiansaiyan]

God Ki is always on and there are now only 3 forms:
They have base form
The next level is Super Saiyan
The current final form is Super Saiyan Blue
That is easy to understand.
Throughout this whole tournament people keep making excuses for characters Power level instead of using what is given in the episode.

I say:

Whis/Vados
Beerus/Champa
Hit/Monaka( Unless Beerus is lying)
Super Saiyan Blue Goku/Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Super Saiyan Goku/ Super Saiyan Vegeta/ Super Saiyan Cabba/Magetta
Frost Final Form/Piccolo
Base Goku/Base Vegeta/Base Cabba
Frost Assualt Form/Botamo
Frost First Form

It amazing how people can't accept u6 fighters being this strong i mean unless its been confirmed by tori this whole on and off god ki just sounds ridiculous.

I know I have been trying to tell everyone for weeks now..

The underlined part is false. Here:

Spoiler:

Episode 24
Minute: 21
Context: Goku transforms into SSGSS.

Kuririn: "I can't sense any ki from Goku at all now!"
Gohan: "It seems he's somehow become a Super Saiyan God."
Kuririn: "But Gohan, take a good look at him. Goku's hair is blue!"
Tenshinhan: "If I remember it right, it was red when he fought Beerus."
Kame-Sen'nin: "Has Goku reached a level even higher than what he was at back then?"

Freeza: "You've simply become a Super Saiyan, have you not?"
Goku: "Actually, that's not quite right. It's a little complicated and hard to explain, but... This is a Saiyan with the power of a Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan."

The Saiyans only have God Ki while in SSJB. It's clear. Kuririn can't sense God Ki and it's said nobody but the Gods can feel it, therefore Goku and Vegeta never had God Ki in base.

Even without God ki their base still has a power of a God and it is their only base and this is the main point I am trying to get people to understand and therefore everyone in this tournament is strong and not as weak as everyome is saying.
Goku and Vegeta still then only have 3 forms.