"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Matches Malone]

Even if Goku was a sociopath and low on empathy this behaviour is ridiculous. He'd at least care about himself to know Moro is gonna kill him.

Especially when you take this into account.



This is who Goku thought had the potential of being reformed...great writing.

[Ziegander]

I am just numbed by this. I no longer care how this arc ends. I'm going to keep reading so that, in however many more months it takes to get there, I eventually know how it ends, but it just doesn't matter anymore. They're planning the next arc? Great. It's gonna be about fighting angels or Zalama or something. The scale is just broken now. We're going to have Evolved Ultra Instinct Vegetto fighting Zeno before you know it. Might as well throw Gohan Blanco in there while we're at it.

All because some android from somewhere out in U7 has the power to just copy the power level of an Angel. Because that makes any kind of sense. Was it just me or did anyone else get the impression in the beginning of the arc that 7-3 only copied specific techniques? In the beginning, the android copied that teleporting power. Then he copied Piccolo's special beam cannon. Then he showed that he had Moro's energy absorption technique installed as a backup - but even then it never seemed to imply that, when 7-3 was using Moro's energy absorption that he was somehow on the same power scale as Moro himself was. But he was?

I'm just stunned. Maybe it'll be cool if Whis fights him.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Even if Goku was a sociopath and low on empathy this behaviour is ridiculous. He'd at least care about himself to know Moro is gonna kill him.

Especially when you take this into account.



This is who Goku thought had the potential of being reformed...great writing.

He literally kills his own henchmen for petty reasons. He'd do the same to the ones that had been recaptured had they won their fights eventually. He sees his henchmen as tools that he can toss out at will.

Kid Buu is more redeemable than this fucker. Moro is pure evil, he needs to die. I think Moro will need to snap Gohan's neck for Goku to realize how evil he is.

[JewyB]

He literally kills his own henchmen for petty reasons. He'd do the same to the ones that had been recaptured had they won their fights eventually. He sees his henchmen as tools that he can toss out at will.

Kid Buu is more redeemable than this fucker. Moro is pure evil, he needs to die. I think Moro will need to snap Gohan's neck for Goku to realize how evil he is.

Imagine thinking a character that kills their henchmen can be redeemed smh.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

He literally kills his own henchmen for petty reasons. He'd do the same to the ones that had been recaptured had they won their fights eventually. He sees his henchmen as tools that he can toss out at will.

Kid Buu is more redeemable than this fucker. Moro is pure evil, he needs to die. I think Moro will need to snap Gohan's neck for Goku to realize how evil he is.

Imagine thinking a character that kills their henchmen can be redeemed smh/

I don't think Tori planned for Vegeta to be redeemed at that point. Had he not been popular Vegeta likely would have stayed dead after Namek.

Moro is still a planet eating monster. What do you think is gonna happen if he's spared?

[JewyB]

I don't think Tori planned for Vegeta to be redeemed at that point. Had he not been popular Vegeta likely would have stayed dead after Namek.

Moro is still a planet eating monster. What do you think is gonna happen if he's spared?

I dont know but i wont just assume it will be a terrible decision before it plays but, I'm open to anything happening.

Anyone who thinks Moro is too evil to be redeemed by DB standards musth ate 70% of the DB supporting cast because they werent all pure hearted heroes from day 1.

[Matches Malone]

Imagine thinking a character that kills their henchmen can be redeemed smh.

Goku didn't give him a senzu bean, he just let him go. The issue people have isn't Goku deciding to not kill Moro, it's him going out of his way to help him. There's also the fact that Vegeta wasn't someone out of Goku's league like Moro is, so even if he did try anything (which he did in the Buu arc), he could handle it. Letting Moro live, much less helping him is the equivalent of doing that with Kid Buu.

[JewyB]

Imagine thinking a character that kills their henchmen can be redeemed smh.

Goku didn't give him a senzu bean, he just let him go. The issue people have isn't Goku deciding to not kill Moro, it's him going out of his way to help him. There's also the fact that Vegeta wasn't someone out of Goku's league like Moro is, so even if he did try anything (which he did in the Buu arc), he could handle it. Letting Moro live, much less helping him is the equivalent of doing that with Kid Buu.

Vegeta was above Goku. Moro is vastly below Goku.

[Matches Malone]

Moro is vastly below Goku.

Moro with his angle abilities, his ability to copy anyone's power, his magic, and his planet absorbing powers is below Goku ? That's the equivalent of saying 2+2=7.

[Magnificent Ponta]

This comment explains things far better than I ever could:

I sincerely hope that you could do better than this, because the comment you've quoted is, frankly, unacceptably tendentious, and talks past the point being made, which is that Goku has spared people he arguably shouldn't have when considered according to the dictates of common sense.

Firstly, what does "100% over and not a threat" even mean, in this context? That someone has simply declared the fight 'over'? Yeah, okay. If you consent to completely heal a rival, who literally gored you five minutes ago, back to full strength (Piccolo), or turn your back on a guy who can still slice you in half (Freeza), what does 'not a threat' even mean? By those benchmarks, Moro isn't a threat to Goku either. There's nothing he can directly do to him in that state, as Chapter 64 spent many pages showing us.

The only relevant comparisons given are Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza (the rest is a waste of word count because it's busy discussing irrelevant examples), and the first two are hand-waved with basically 'it turned out okay in the end, so it's fine', which has nothing to do with Goku's decision-making process and the question of whether letting those people go was strictly sensible at the time - for Vegeta, Goku himself conceded that it wasn't smart, even as he asked Kuririn to do it. If Vegeta hadn't been diverted from his original purpose by Freeza's actions, he'd've been back 36 days later to kill them all.

So, what? It's smart because it didn't happen to turn out badly (when it easily could have)? How is that a reasonable argument about the quality of Goku's decision-making process as a character?

As for Freeza, Goku goes as far as to do it twice, which the comment you've quoted completely elides. On the first one, he tells him to go off and cower, and is lucky not to get sliced in half for doing so - but he nevertheless calls it giving him a last chance, and he calls Freeza stupid for not taking it. Because this is the way that Goku thinks. He goes on to say he should train some more and come back if he wants to settle things.

On the second one, it's in response to begging for his life, and Goku recognises this would be treating him in a way Freeza treated nobody else. But he does it anyway, for some reason (presumably because he thinks such an end "isn't worthy of you"), and then he tells him to "learn the value of life" - how likely is this outcome, in your estimation (answer: not at all, because Freeza immediately tries to kill him)? But no, Goku telling Moro to submit is the 'out-of-character' action, apparently.

And what does 'always learning from his mistakes' mean? As far as that comment is concerned, Goku hasn't even made any mistakes to learn from.

Maybe you should stick to making comments for yourself.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

Imagine thinking a character that kills their henchmen can be redeemed smh.

Goku didn't give him a senzu bean, he just let him go. The issue people have isn't Goku deciding to not kill Moro, it's him going out of his way to help him. There's also the fact that Vegeta wasn't someone out of Goku's league like Moro is, so even if he did try anything (which he did in the Buu arc), he could handle it. Letting Moro live, much less helping him is the equivalent of doing that with Kid Buu.

Vegeta was above Goku. Moro is vastly below Goku.

And then he took Merus's powers. Now he's stronger than before. Sparing Moro blew up in all of their face. Still think sparing him is a good idea?

[JewyB]

And then he took Merus's powers. Now he's stronger than before. Sparing Moro blew up in all of their face. Still think sparing him is a good idea?

Moro with his angle abilities, his ability to copy anyone's power, his magic, and his planet absorbing powers is below Goku ? That's the equivalent of saying 2+2=7.

You both seem to be working under the assumption that Goku gave Moro a senzu bean after he got angel powers. When Goku gave Moro a senzu bean Moro was doing less than stellar against Goku.

[Matches Malone]

When Goku gave Moro a senzu bean Moro was doing less than stellar against Goku.

What did Goku think was going to happen by healing someone like that ? There's also the fact that Goku knows MUI isn't stable, so even if he didn't get angle powers, what if MUI switched off ? what then ? No matter what way you look at it, it was a terrible move on his part. At this point in his "career", he should know better.

[SupremeKai25]

Spoiler:

Guessing' we'll be seeing Goku taking on the angels soon enough.

I really don't want that. He is a Saiyan who makes the same kind of decisions over and over again. Angels are the overseers of the Universes possibly since their creation.. There is no point to make a fighting monkey race be equal with literal creators, except for powerlevel wanking.

DBS would be fine if it ended with Goku being on Beerus tier, that should be enough of a benchmark for Saiyans. Any higher and the plot literally has nowhere to go from there.

Tags again just for the sake of it:

Spoiler:

The truth is they were already at that point at the end of Z and then basically pulled a "but wait, there's more!" as a justification for this continuation. They whipped up a new god hierarchy and went from there. I wouldn't put anything past them at this point in terms of a willingness to graft on expansions to the universe. I'm just guessing that's the ride they have in store for us which is kind of a bummer, but I'll still mostly enjoy it along the way.

P.S. - That said, if this whole thing ends up being some fanfic-esque galaxy brain play where Zamasu corrupted Zen-Oh somehow I think my eyes will roll into the back of my head so fast that they will spin dash out of the back of my skull ala Sonic the Hedgehog.

The "Zamasu = Future Zeno" theory was always far-fetched, I won't deny it, but it's the sort of whacky, crazy shenanigans that would fit Dragon Ball lol.

[JewyB]

When Goku gave Moro a senzu bean Moro was doing less than stellar against Goku.

What did Goku think was going to happen by healing someone like that ? There's also the fact that Goku knows MUI isn't stable, so even if he didn't get angle powers, what if MUI switched off ? what then ? No matter what way you look at it, it was a terrible move on his part. At this point in his "career", he should know better.

It was a terrible move yes, Goku is not above making bad decisions, however, in context its not as bad as you are making out. Goku didn't go "Oh man, remember that fight i was unconscious for where Moro absorbed Merus' powers but then left his hand aside in case he got healed later? I'm really looking forward to him one upping me with this trump card when i heal him".

Goku was thinking "This goat boy is on a level 5 bazillion times lower than me, lets give hi ma bean, no worries".

If you pick up a glass, then trip over a random cat and drop and smash that glass, you can't then go "i'm gonna not pick up this glass now before this happens." as much as, before picking it up, you cant go "it's gonna really suck when after i pick this up i trip over on that cat and break this glass, oh well, at least i'm always aware of every possible outco-woops".

[Matches Malone]

The "Zamasu = Future Zeno" theory was always far-fetched, I won't deny it, but it's the sort of whacky, crazy shenanigans that would fit Dragon Ball lol.

Considering Zamasu is one of the best things to come out of this revival, I wouldn't be against it. Zamasu somehow switching bodies with Zeno and taking his time until he can strike while plotting in the background would be an amazing twist. I know it won't happen, but considering what we've been stuck with since his tragic passing (Jiren, Broly, Moro), I'd accept just about anything if it meant bringing him back.

[Femme Fatale Kikaza]

And then he took Merus's powers. Now he's stronger than before. Sparing Moro blew up in all of their face. Still think sparing him is a good idea?

Moro with his angle abilities, his ability to copy anyone's power, his magic, and his planet absorbing powers is below Goku ? That's the equivalent of saying 2+2=7.

You both seem to be working under the assumption that Goku gave Moro a senzu bean after he got angel powers. When Goku gave Moro a senzu bean Moro was doing less than stellar against Goku.

Still its a bad idea. Goku seemed aware Moro was not gonna change but gave him a chance when he was battered. He legit said ,"Moro, I'm gonna give you this healing bean if you turn yourself in and never do evil again." Moro took the bean and attacked Goku in response and Goku seemed to expect this reaction. Moro has shown himself to be pure evil, what else can you expect when you heal someone like that? Its still a bad decision.

[Lionel]

So far Moro hasn't taken any steps to distance himself from the character trappings that help to define him as being twisted and malevolent. It is his debut arc and villains frequently remain on the path of damnation until they're faced with an even bigger menace than themselves that requires an alliance of necessity between themselves and the Z-Warriors. On top of that, the nature of his strength is seeped in too much plague and wide-scale sacrifice for his survival to continue in the manner that it does.

At the very least Goku is being short-sighted here. I question if he gave any thought as to what Moro's future would entail with the law enforcement agency having effectively put Moro on death row and with Seven-Three still trapped inside of the guy. Do they have Vegeta forcibly expel the remaining souls and Seven-Three from Moro before turning him over to the custody of the Galactic Patrol only for them to try and kill him themselves? It's a moot point since Moro has been restored to full strength here. They could take a drastic measure such as lobotomising or physically crippling a la Nappa but such an outcome would be grim and unorthodox for a surviving villain by Dragon Ball standards -- entrapment like Garlic Jr or Daimou historically are the closest equivalents that spring to mind.

[Matches Malone]

Goku was thinking "This goat boy is on a level 5 bazillion times lower than me, lets give hi ma bean, no worries".

Even if he never grabbed Merus, Moro 7-3 fully powered up is still strong enough to take out everyone if Goku's MUI ran out, which it has a habit of doing. It's risky any way you look at it. One thing Goku could've done is have Vegeta separate them before giving them beans, that way even fully powered up neither would be a threat.

[Matches Malone]

I remember when the arc started Toyotaro said Moro would be written so badly (as in evil) that there'd be no chance of anyone believing he could be reformed...yet he has the main character believe he can be reformed.