"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

Dragon Ball, however, is not Pokémon. They're different beasts from each other. Pokémon isn't about the trainers, it's more about the world, where I feel Dragon Ball is more about the characters. Remove and replace the characters I follow the series for and I just stop watching altogether. If they got rid of Gokû and Vegeta and replaced them, I'd retire from the series too. I just don't have a strong enough interest in DB's world. They'd need to stick around at least as secondary characters for me to care at all.

I don't really want them to just kick Goku and Vegeta out of the way forever, either. What I'm asking is for Super to progressively build up the next generation instead of leaving them to rot like the new movies have been doing and then mid-way through the series give them the spotlight with some future appearances by Goku and Vegeta. Kinda like how the series itself did with Gohan in the Cell Games through until Gohan gets absorbed.

[Ushabtis]

As long as Super adds some interesting new characters that are fun and remember-able I'm good. Getting time to shine and beat a villain or two would be icing on the cake. Goku/Vegeta being the focus characters won't bug me too much long as the other cast members are there to do something other than be named character fodder, I don't want them to add interesting characters and kick them to the curb just so they can show off how powerful a villain is and how awesome Goku/Vegeta are.
(which seems to be Gohans fate at the moment but it could change down the road)

[Doctor.]

For Gohan, I'd like to see his hidden potential finally run out and, if he gets back into the fighting scene again, for him to train to get powerful.

[Ushabtis]

well his "hidden potential" is his shtick really, take that away all he has left is being scholar and rage boost. I'd just like them to explain how come he always has crazy hidden powers hiding even though its been unlocked multiple times.

And for once I'd kinda like to see Gohan train for that hidden power instead of some old guy touching him and poof he's super powerful now.

[Avery]

IMO they're worst than Pokemon.... Hmmm that would be interesting but I have this feeling that DBS will probably be the last DB series, and at least the cast actually grows old (with the exception of Goku and Vegeta appearance wise) Conan's been a 7yrs old for 700+ep....

Lol. Conan's apparent immortality annoyed me so much that I wrote a long article about it a year ago.

On a side note, why the hell did Toriyama make Bulma an ugly hag at EOZ ? Future Bulma still looked pretty even for an old woman.

It's because of the hair

Her face is exactly like Future Bulma's otherwise.

And looking at Resurrection 'F', Bulma looks the prettiest there than ever in the series, for some reason.

My Japanese is not that great (neither is my English) but I found a comment from Toriyama on the Jap wikipedia. He says that she developed a special solution or something.
Anyways...
Now I think about it, did AT decide to give Vegeta some attention just to please his fans? He's never been given a proper role in any of the movies before BOG (yeah, they're not canon, but still...)

[JulieYBM]

Re: pokémon

I remember being so upset when they replaced Brock/Takeshi with Tracey/Kenji. As a result, the me of that time resented Tracey and never could enjoy the character. Brock wasn't even a favorite or anything, I liked Satoshi/Ash. To be fair I did stick it out through the Orange Islands and only left at the start of Johto, even after they brought back Brock, but that was because the plot began repeating itself imo at the time.
Man, if they'd jettisoned Kasumi/Misty when they temp-dropped (and at the time I had no way of knowing it was temporary) Brock, I would've dropped the show then and there. I'm happy I left before they retired Misty.

That said, I do conversely think they should've dumped the whole cast of pokémon and rebooted with a full new cast each time a new set of games came out. No reason for Ash to still be the lead. He should've been retired ages ago.


Dragon Ball, however, is not Pokémon. They're different beasts from each other. Pokémon isn't about the trainers, it's more about the world, where I feel Dragon Ball is more about the characters. Remove and replace the characters I follow the series for and I just stop watching altogether. If they got rid of Gokû and Vegeta and replaced them, I'd retire from the series too. I just don't have a strong enough interest in DB's world. They'd need to stick around at least as secondary characters for me to care at all.

Takeshi was dropped because it was felt he was too Japanese. Imagine the production crew's surprise when they found out kids liked Takeshi better. Still, I wish more had been done with Takeshi and Kasumi. Alas, Haruka and Hikari definitely brought up the quality of the animated franchise. Dent was also a tremendous amount of fun as the 'successor' for Takeshi. Citron and Eureka have been pretty damned awesome in their own way, too.

Anyway, there's no reason to get rid of Satoshi yet. The restrictions on the storylines simply need to be lifted. Satoshi has yet to enter the Champion League, participate in national leagues (assuming Kantou and the other regions are part of a nation) or in a global league.

[alakazam^]

Would you guys like to have a thread for each episode like the we have for Kai? It's a great way to discuss, imo.

[Chuquita]

Re: Takeshi

I do remember reading about that about his design and the viewers, but this was years after I'd left the fandom (my username here still dates from that era, that's about it). I wasn't around for whenever Kasumi was dropped, but I do remember reading they left her at her home gym with her sisters, so...? I like Haruka and Hikari's designs, but I know nothing about their personalities/backstories. The rest of the names you mentioned I don't know at all.

I did not know they added additional rungs of leagues since I've been gone. If Satoshi does legit still have stuff to do, then I don't mind them keeping him on until he accomplishes that stuff. It doesn't affect me anyway, as I said I haven't watched since early Johto.

EDIT: I did some googling just now, found an old post of mine from another site from 9 years ago where I say the reason I dropped the show was I figured out during early Johto that the format of the series meant the pairing I was shipping was never going to happen; that sounds about right for the me of that time. I left because I realized my ship was never even going to leave the harbor. I had a feeling that was part of why.


Re: threads for episodes

I would like this; have individual episode threads while retaining this thread as a general-type Super thread of sorts.

[fadeddreams5]

I thought Brock was black as a kid.

[Retan]

Would you guys like to have a thread for each episode like the we have for Kai? It's a great way to discuss, imo.

I though Vegetto EX and them already said this was going to happen, and besides there the only ones who can post a new topic anyway?


Also is the trailer and picture supposed to be released on sunday as in our sunday, their sunday, or late their sunday so both?

[Ajay]

Yeah, weekly threads are happening. It actually says so in the pinned thread for this subforum:

We will start a thread for each individual episode each week.

Should be a fun/frustrating time!

[JulieYBM]

Discussion will be so heavy and focused we will need these separate threads, probably.

Hopefully I can get a separate thread going for the animation staff once we begin getting information on them in the monthly magazines.

[dbzfan7]

I've always wondered why even though I love Goku so much, he's been pissing me off. But the comparisons has really answered that question. Especially the Ash Ketchum one. I do not want Goku to be the next Ash Ketchum or John Cena. I want Goku to feel legendary....but he just feels old. Goku doesn't have to leave, but I want a new cast of faces to be the next generation. I love the next generation as it makes the previous one reach legendary status and feel monumental. It's like that feeling when Muten Roshi finally starts fighting, and it's incredible. Every time in Dragon Ball it was great when he fought, and then he eventually let a new wave of fighters join. I know it's personal preference as some people hate new protagonists, so this action would leave a divided fan base. I would maybe like then at least a future like series that maybe could coincide with the past, so we can have the old and a new generation.

That's a good point. If there were new generations taking the helm for most of the time, it'd be an event when Goku did occasionally step back into the ring. Like meeting Red in a later Pokemon game, Kamen Rider #1 appearing for a team-up, Earth-2 Superman...

Exactly. It's why stuff like History of Trunks, Father of Goku, and Heroe's Legacy stand out for me. We have the future world with a new different Gohan, a younger inexperienced Trunks, and killer Cyborgs who don't act the same as the one's in the present. Goku is a legend in this time and is looked back as the guy Gohan wanted to try and reach and live up to, even training. In Heroes Legacy while it's kinda poor since Goku Jr is just Gohan again, the end stuck out to me. Goku being there was exciting. Holy shit here's Goku after he disappeared with the Dragon Balls. It was really special. Him talking to Jr was great as well as him being clueless as to how many greats he is as a grandparent. I never get that feel now cause Goku is always around...woopie.

It'd be like if Tommy Oliver was always a ranger by the time Dino Thunder happened. It wouldn't be nearly as special when he took on the black dino powers (even though he joined the cast too soon). Goku feels like Ash Ketchum. A guy who never really changes all that much and is always around. His shtick gets really old and tiresome, and it feels like he refuses to let the next generation exist. It's really funny how according to Toriyama, Goten and Trunks didn't join the battle of F as they wanted to preserve the next generation of fighters....but that means nothing. They never try to be that as we see in the EOZ, nor is there any sign there ever will be a next generation of fighters like the time Muten Roshi stepped aside. Instead it feels like Ash Ketchum syndrome where we're forever stuck in the Goku age forever, like how Pokemon is forever in the Ash Ketchum age.

[soulnova]

It's really funny how according to Toriyama, Goten and Trunks didn't join the battle of F as they wanted to preserve the next generation of fighters....but that means nothing.

Where was this stated?

also, that worked so well for them right?

[dbzfan7]

It's really funny how according to Toriyama, Goten and Trunks didn't join the battle of F as they wanted to preserve the next generation of fighters....but that means nothing.

Where was this stated?

also, that worked so well for them right?

From the script handed out.

AT’s Inside Story
Why don’t Goten or Trunks put in an appearance?
It’s because everyone didn’t want to risk losing the next generation of warriors. By the way, they also figured Mister Satan wouldn’t be any help at all, so he’s just relaxing at home in blissful ignorance.

It's funny how they think this, when in reality they never do become the next generation of warriors at the EOZ. Quotes like this would be meaningful if EOZ didn't already predetermine everyone's future.

[Araki]

I find the Goku/Ash comparison absolutely nonsensical. Ash Ketchum never aged one day and never had to change about anything.
We not only saw Goku growing up, the character underwent changes that can't be ignored. Even the 'oh no Goku doesn't change anymore!!" can't be taken seriously as the only recent material we had were two movies! It's simply not fair to expect the character (or anything, really) would change in a significant way for a couple movies meant to make people catch up with old favorites and not much else.
Now with a new series it's actually reasonable to demand character developments (which the end of FnF seemed to imply, so i'll wait and see).

also, that worked so well for them right?

It could still work. EoZ was the only canon moment we've seen older Goten and Trunks, and that wasn't a time of crisis.

It's funny how they think this, when in reality they never do become the next generation of warriors at the EOZ. Quotes like this would be meaningful if EOZ didn't already predetermine everyone's future.

How can we say everything was predetermined, really? I think that's just an assumption. Gohan never cared about fighting but was forced to become a warrior. Meeting Goten and Trunks in a time when nothing was happening doesn't mean they would never be forced to take the stage again.

[dbzfan7]

It's funny how they think this, when in reality they never do become the next generation of warriors at the EOZ. Quotes like this would be meaningful if EOZ didn't already predetermine everyone's future.

How can we say everything was predetermined, really? That's just an assumption. Gohan never cared about fighting but was forced to become a warrior. Meeting Goten and Trunks in a time when nothing was happening doesn't mean they would never be forced to take the stage again.

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P1.3
Context: Bulma complains about how Goku never comes to visit
Bulma: “5 years! 5 years ago, when everyone was getting together, and even then you said you were training and didn’t come!”

Chapter: 518 (DBZ 324), P3.5
Vegeta: “Hmph. It pains us both how weak our children act.”
Goku: “Haha, that’s true. Well, that’s peace for you.”

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P1.3
Goten: “Th-that can’t be! How can I go up against Boo right in the first round?!”
Goku: “It’s only a problem because you keep slacking off in your training.”

Daizenshuu 2

Ten years after the battle with Majin Buu, Goten had completely become a young man, and had changed his hair as well. Since peace had thrown off his training, power-wise he hasn't had any explosive growth since when he was a boy

Having fully become an adult, he is now at about the same age as adult Trunks. Since he doesn't train very often, he hasn't explosively powered up.

They like Gohan both slack off and do nothing. The only thing that can even be considered a next gen warrior is Oob. Not too fond of his sudden appearance, nor him being a Gohan clone. Nonetheless Oob is the sole next generation character. Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are nothing more than the extra's at this point. The end has pretty much determined their future. Unless the Super goes post Z and they change their minds. As of now they don't care about being fighters period. So there is no next generation that has saiyans in it. Well maybe Pan if she's given some focus. Considering the only people who've had any real care are Goku and Vegeta, that's all to really expect. Everyone else is more or less slowly pushed aside.

[soulnova]

also, that worked so well for them right?

It could still work. EoZ was the only canon moment we've seen older Goten and Trunks, and that wasn't a time of crisis.

I meant, they were killed with the rest of the Earthling when the planet exploded before the do-over. xD If they had been with them, the kids would have survived the first time.

[Ushabtis]

They like Gohan both slack off and do nothing. The only thing that can even be considered a next gen warrior is Oob. Not too fond of his sudden appearance, nor him being a Gohan clone. Nonetheless Oob is the sole next generation character.

Well Super could introduce several new characters to be potential earth protectors. Perhaps Super will put Goku into a Roshi style mentor, watching him train the young ones that come to learn from him? I'd love to see Goku make his trainees wear those Turtle shell backpacks and have them run around delivering Milk.

So there is no next generation that has saiyans in it. Well maybe Pan if she's given some focus.

I know there are people who want to see pan do something But i pray she doesn't do anything crazy. I really hated the fact Trunks and Goten could so easily turn into Super saiyans with little to no effort and the thought of quarter saiyan coming out and being a super fighter with all the bells and whistles of the previous fighters just because shes related to Goku/Gohan. I'll be disappointed.

[dbzfan7]

Well Super could introduce several new characters to be potential earth protectors. Perhaps Super will put Goku into a Roshi style mentor, watching him train the young ones that come to learn from him? I'd love to see Goku make his trainees wear those Turtle shell backpacks and have them run around delivering Milk.

Highly doubt it. I'd like to think that is the case, but I think it's far more likely that we're just getting GT lite. I don't think the formula from the previous 2 movies is really gonna be changed for the show. Only 4 characters really matter outside of whoever the opposition is, cause Goku has to punch someone, so they need some significance so he can punch them.

I know there are people who want to see pan do something But i pray she doesn't do anything crazy. I really hated the fact Trunks and Goten could so easily turn into Super saiyans with little to no effort and the thought of quarter saiyan coming out and being a super fighter with all the bells and whistles of the previous fighters just because shes related to Goku/Gohan. I'll be disappointed.

There's no real need to worry. It's unlikely she'll get any focus. So long as the realm of the gods are around, she's irrelevant unless she reaches their level.