Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

[JulieYBM]

But the anime doesn't change the script, does it? Plus, Dragon Ball Kai changed the music and it's still Dragon Ball. As long as the music's good and fits the series, it doesn't matter if it's changed. Okay, it DOES matter, but only because it SHOULDN'T be changed. I meant that changing the music doen't necessarily make it not Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball Kai isn't Dragon Ball Z. They adapt the same story, and Kai is basically using the DBZ footage, but they stand as two different interpretations of the original comic into animated format.

Dubs are supposed to be faithful and respectful adaptations from one language into another. The FUNimation dubs of DB are far to liberal for a lot of our tastes, espicially in comparison to their other dubs.

[m121akuma]

Music and voices are irrelevant because they're not in the comic.

By that logic, the anime itself is irrelevant. If all you care about is the imagery and script, it's far easier to just read the manga, and you get a more pure and original experience. It's not like the original anime script for DBZ is entirely Toriyama accurate, what with changes like Dodoria killing Cargo (which isn't a huge deal, but I'm using for the sake of argument) or Vegeta happily discovering a Super Saiya-Jin Goku on Namek (which, I'm sorry penguintruth, is a piece of filler that makes no sense for the character).

And before anyone jumps down my throat, yes, I totally agree, the Funimation dub is even farther from the original script than the original anime, and I agree that the characterizations in the dub don't really fit. As I've stated before, I prefer the Japanese version. But I have a problem with calling someone "more of a fan" than someone else. By that line of thought, the highest level of fan is someone who prefers/exclusively reads the Dragonball manga uncensored in the original Japanese without translation. Because the fact of the matter is, no matter how good the translation is, something WILL be lost in the translation from Japanese to English.

(As a slight example from another series that just popped into my brain: In Lucky Star, the scenes where Konata is chatting with her teacher in Lucky Star are hilarious because she has to type to her in complete, properly constructed sentences in the more polite "desu/masu" form, while everyone else, including her teacher, is using casual language with a hint of netspeak. That is lost without either knowledge of the language or someone explaining it to you)

[penguintruth]

All right, let's stop this flawed parallel.

To say that the anime itself is different from the manga, so we should excuse the English dub for being different than the Japanese script is such nonsense, it's hardly worth commenting on. The anime has to be dealt with as it is, how it came out.

The product is the anime, in this case. It's differences from the manga are irrelevant in this conversation. An English dub is, ideally, an English version translation of the Japanese script. Granted, lines may be changed to better suit mouth flap movement, or even improve conversation flow to some degree (though there is some controversy over that practice, too). If the Japanese script and the English script differ significantly, no matter how much of "the basics" the script has, it's not really much of a translation.

The 4Kids dub of One Piece had the basics, too. And the anime version is different from the manga.

I'm not really comparing that travesty of a dub to Funimation's dub of DBZ in terms of quality (or, at least, not in terms of enthusiasm), but the idea of a dub being different being acceptable because a TV version is different from its manga is silly.

[m121akuma]

I'm not really comparing that travesty of a dub to Funimation's dub of DBZ in terms of quality (or, at least, not in terms of enthusiasm), but the idea of a dub being different being acceptable because a TV version is different from its manga is silly.

I'm not trying to say that. I'm saying that ranking fans based on the purity of the source material they prefer is silly because most people don't experience Dragonball in its purest form.

[mystic trunks]

Vegetto EX wrote:
What I actually said and what you're conveniently ignoring is that two people watching two different versions of something will inherently and absolutely enjoy it for different reasons... because it's not the exact same thing, and therefore CANNOT be enjoyed the same way. That's common sense, right?




It's not impossible for me to enjoy the same things for the same reasons as you. It doesn't have to be EXACTLY the same for us to enjoy a common thing for the same reasosn.

[linkdude20002001]

But the anime doesn't change the script, does it? Plus, Dragon Ball Kai changed the music and it's still Dragon Ball. As long as the music's good and fits the series, it doesn't matter if it's changed. Okay, it DOES matter, but only because it SHOULDN'T be changed. I meant that changing the music doen't necessarily make it not Dragon Ball.

Dragon Ball Kai isn't Dragon Ball Z. They adapt the same story, and Kai is basically using the DBZ footage, but they stand as two different interpretations of the original comic into animated format.

Dubs are supposed to be faithful and respectful adaptations from one language into another. The FUNimation dubs of DB are far to liberal for a lot of our tastes, espicially in comparison to their other dubs.

I wasn't saying DBK is still DBZ ('cause I know that's not true). I was saying DBK is still Dragon Ball (as in the comic).

Music and voices are irrelevant because they're not in the comic.

By that logic, the anime itself is irrelevant. If all you care about is the imagery and script, it's far easier to just read the manga, and you get a more pure and original experience. It's not like the original anime script for DBZ is entirely Toriyama accurate, what with changes like Dodoria killing Cargo (which isn't a huge deal, but I'm using for the sake of argument) or Vegeta happily discovering a Super Saiya-Jin Goku on Namek (which, I'm sorry penguintruth, is a piece of filler that makes no sense for the character).

And before anyone jumps down my throat, yes, I totally agree, the Funimation dub is even farther from the original script than the original anime, and I agree that the characterizations in the dub don't really fit. As I've stated before, I prefer the Japanese version. But I have a problem with calling someone "more of a fan" than someone else. By that line of thought, the highest level of fan is someone who prefers/exclusively reads the Dragonball manga uncensored in the original Japanese without translation. Because the fact of the matter is, no matter how good the translation is, something WILL be lost in the translation from Japanese to English.

(As a slight example from another series that just popped into my brain: In Lucky Star, the scenes where Konata is chatting with her teacher in Lucky Star are hilarious because she has to type to her in complete, properly constructed sentences in the more polite "desu/masu" form, while everyone else, including her teacher, is using casual language with a hint of netspeak. That is lost without either knowledge of the language or someone explaining it to you)

I meant that what the characters sound like and what music is played does not make a show Dragon Ball. For example: DBK replaced the music and recast the characters, but it's still Dragon Ball.

And I know that DBZ isn't perfect. The filler doesn't count as Dragon Ball, the parts of the story that were changed doesn't count, the movies don't count, the dub doesn't count (dialogue-wise), etc. I'm not trying to say that fans of the dub aren't Dragon Ball fans, but they certainly aren't fans of the true Dragon Ball. I know that sounds mean, but I'm not saying it's a bad thing to not be a fan of the true version or that they're lesser fans; they're just as much fans as anyone else. The true version or FUNimation's version: if you're a fan of either one, you're a Dragon Ball fan.

[russ869]

It's not impossible for me to enjoy the same things for the same reasons as you. It doesn't have to be EXACTLY the same for us to enjoy a common thing for the same reasosn.

The fact that there's even an argument here is what's showing that we don't enjoy Dragonball for the same reasons.

Think of this. If an avid dub-watcher and an avid Japanese-watcher from this forum hooked up to watch some episodes together, would they both be fine with watching either version? Would both of them be able to enjoy watching just as much as when they watched it in their preferred version? It should be obvious to everyone who's posted in this topic that the wouldn't. And the reason for that is simply because they don't enjoy Dragonball for the same reasons.

I can see some people here don't like the sound/idea of this, but I think it's pretty obvious. And I don't have a problem with it; it makes perfect sense to me. I'll bet if Funimation had simply decided to call their version something else besides Dragonball Z, no one would be making such a fuss. Similar to the Macross/Robotech dichotomy.

[SSJ2bardock]

It's not impossible for me to enjoy the same things for the same reasons as you. It doesn't have to be EXACTLY the same for us to enjoy a common thing for the same reasosn.

The fact that there's even an argument here is what's showing that we don't enjoy Dragonball for the same reasons.

Why does it matter what reasons we're enjoying it for? We're both enjoying it, so that makes us both fans of the show, right?

[penguintruth]

It's not impossible for me to enjoy the same things for the same reasons as you. It doesn't have to be EXACTLY the same for us to enjoy a common thing for the same reasosn.

The fact that there's even an argument here is what's showing that we don't enjoy Dragonball for the same reasons.

Why does it matter what reasons we're enjoying it for? We're both enjoying it, so that makes us both fans of the show, right?

Again, we're not really both fans of the same show.

[Rory]

It's not impossible for me to enjoy the same things for the same reasons as you. It doesn't have to be EXACTLY the same for us to enjoy a common thing for the same reasosn.

The fact that there's even an argument here is what's showing that we don't enjoy Dragonball for the same reasons.

Why does it matter what reasons we're enjoying it for? We're both enjoying it, so that makes us both fans of the show, right?

Or, perhaps it means you're fans of.. different shows. -Twilight Zone theme-

[VegettoEX]

Why does it matter what reasons we're enjoying it for? We're both enjoying it, so that makes us both fans of the show, right?

It doesn't matter to me, that's for sure.

The dub fans seem to be the ones that keep bringing it up and demanding justification for it.

[saiyangerl]

Think of this. If an avid dub-watcher and an avid Japanese-watcher from this forum hooked up to watch some episodes together, would they both be fine with watching either version? Would both of them be able to enjoy watching just as much as when they watched it in their preferred version? It should be obvious to everyone who's posted in this topic that the wouldn't. And the reason for that is simply because they don't enjoy Dragonball for the same reasons.

Actually I'd have to say if I were in that situation I would be fine watching either but if I had the choice I prefer the dubbed version. Here's an example. My fiance's brother is visiting from Japan and he wanted to watch it with us but said he preferred Japanese so we both agreed to watch it in Japanese with him. It was not a big deal to me. I was just happy to be watching DB. We were actually watching DB Kai because that's the only version in Japanese I have at this time. I think it was good how they explained everything at the beginning so that his brother didn't have to watch a lot of episodes and really get into it to get it.

[Booney]

To me this whole debate is just ridiculous.

It's like someone tells you you're not drinking coffee because you drink it with sugar in it.

[SSJ2bardock]

The fact that there's even an argument here is what's showing that we don't enjoy Dragonball for the same reasons.

Why does it matter what reasons we're enjoying it for? We're both enjoying it, so that makes us both fans of the show, right?

Again, we're not really both fans of the same show.

So then I guess by that logic we should divide this forum up into different sections for the fans who watch the dub pertaining to them.

We are all enjoying Dragonball, so we are fans of the same franchise.

The dub fans seem to be the ones that keep bringing it up and demanding justification for it.

What I'm looking for is justification on how we're somehow "lesser fans".

[Rory]

Why does it matter what reasons we're enjoying it for? We're both enjoying it, so that makes us both fans of the show, right?

Again, we're not really both fans of the same show.

So then I guess by that logic we should divide this forum up into different sections for the fans who watch the dub pertaining to them.

We are all enjoying Dragonball, so we are fans of the same franchise.

Of the franchise? Sure. Of the show? Nnnnnot so much.

[B]

To me this whole debate is just ridiculous.

It's like someone tells you you're not drinking coffee because you drink it with sugar in it.

How so?

[penguintruth]

To me this whole debate is just ridiculous.

It's like someone tells you you're not drinking coffee because you drink it with sugar in it.

That's not an apt parallel at all.

I mean, I guess if the sugar is piled in to the point where you have more sugar than coffee, and it's no longer coffee anymore but flavored sugar.

Otherwise, not really a great parallel.

[Chrono Trigger]

So do some of you guys make a point of clarifying what version of the anime you like? If asked would you say "I'm a fan of Dragon Ball" or would you say "I'm a fan of the the Japanese version of Dragon Ball" or you know...any variation of that sort of thing?

[laserkid]

See, this is why I keep having to argue against you guys. I fundamentally agree with you, DBZ is a different show dubbed, then it was originally. Characters have different mannerisms and motivations, and the way they speak is well off the wall.

But good GOD people, liking a crappy version of something doesn't make someone a lesser fan. A tasteless boor, maybe, but lesser fan, no. Stop throwing un necessary divisiveness into an already divisive issue.

This goes to you dub fans too, stop assuming that the dub is so perfect and sticking your heads in the sands and screaming "la la la" when a relevant point is brought up as to why the dub is so different.

[B]

Eh, that seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

I do what most do, I'm a fan, wait for someone to use dublogic, then correct them.