Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Ajay]

I don't know where this ridiculous misconception comes from that Z had worse animation than Super. It really doesn't.

Z's biggest issue, and the thing that's been highlighted for years, has been the overbearing animation supervisors who weren't very good. Their style was ugly, and so stills of their frames have been passed around the internet for years. Kanzenshuu's very own animation style guide hosts many of them.

You know the names: Yukio Ebisawa and Masayuki Uchiyama.

But they seldom animated themselves, and when they did, it was poor, sure, but more often than not it was much better than many scenes in Super. I think some people forget that it's the talent that works under these supervisors that matter, rather than just the supervisors themselves. It's their work that gets overlooked, because really, ugly corrections aside, the animation in these episodes was not outright horrible.

Under Uchiyama, we had the likes of Naotoshi Shida and Tai’ichirō Ohara, who are both fantastic animators. Under Ebisawa, there was Toshiyuki Kan’no, who singlehandedly saved so many scenes under Ebisawa's lead. You wouldn't believe Vegeta's sacrifice was an Ebisawa-lead episode!

Super's issue is that nobody with anything resembling talent is working under these supervisors, and when they do, they seldom have the time to actually do anything of worth. There are a few cases where weaker members of Ebisawa and Uchiyama's team have been brought back for Super.

Honestly, here's a near-8 minute long video comprised of clips from what many people consider Z and GT's worst episodes. Super has dipped below this quality many a time when it's come to action. It's very depressing.

Z and GT had the decency to at least ensure one episode of a fight looked great, even if the surroundings ones were spotty. Super zooms along, rushing through fights, and leaving them looking like utter garbage. No wonder last night's episode was so spotty! Two full fights in one episode?! There was no way that was ever going to go well.

Cutaways to other characters in Z were there to prevent the anime from overtaking the manga, but they were also there to save time and frames for the fights. That's not happening here. They're biting off more than they can chew, they're not compensating for it, and the show is suffering as a result.

With the likelihood that someone is changing things last second at Toei, this is only making things much, much worse. Throwing away cuts, changing keys, really?! You can't afford to do that on a weekly show, especially one with such a cut-throat schedule.

I really feel like a lot of people focus too much on model quality, rather than the motion on screen. The number of digitally transformed stills last night were embarrassing. Goku flipping and flopping during his flurry of punches was laughable. It was only a small portion of that Frost fight I consider acceptable.

[Patrolman Jaco]

So what are the chances of Toei having the animators working on One Piece Film Gold moved to Dragon Ball Super once the movie is finished?

[Bansho64]

I don't know where this ridiculous misconception comes from that Z had worse animation than Super. It really doesn't.

Z's biggest issue, and the thing that's been highlighted for years, has been the overbearing animation supervisors who weren't very good. Their style was ugly, and so stills of their frames have been passed around the internet for years. Kanzenshuu's very own animation style guide hosts many of them.

You know the names: Yukio Ebisawa and Masayuki Uchiyama.

But they seldom animated themselves, and when they did, it was poor, sure, but more often than not it was much better than many scenes in Super. I think some people forget that it's the talent that works under these supervisors that matter, rather than just the supervisors themselves. It's their work that gets overlooked, because really, ugly corrections aside, the animation in these episodes was not outright horrible.

Under Uchiyama, we had the likes of Naotoshi Shida and Tai’ichirō Ohara, who are both fantastic animators. Under Ebisawa, there was Toshiyuki Kan’no, who singlehandedly saved so many scenes under Ebisawa's lead. You wouldn't believe Vegeta's sacrifice was an Ebisawa-lead episode!

Super's issue is that nobody with anything resembling talent is working under these supervisors, and when they do, they seldom have the time to actually do anything of worth. There are a few cases where weaker members of Ebisawa and Uchiyama's team have been brought back for Super.

Honestly, here's a near-8 minute long video comprised of clips from what many people consider Z and GT's worst episodes. Super has dipped below this quality many a time when it's come to action. It's very depressing.

Z and GT had the decency to at least ensure one episode of a fight looked great, even if the surroundings ones were spotty. Super zooms along, rushing through fights, and leaving them looking like utter garbage. No wonder last night's episode was so spotty! Two full fights in one episode?! There was no way that was ever going to go well.

Cutaways to other characters in Z were there to prevent the anime from overtaking the manga, but they were also there to save time and frames for the fights. That's not happening here. They're biting off more than they can chew, they're not compensating for it, and the show is suffering as a result.

With the likelihood that someone is changing things last second at Toei, this is only making things much, much worse. Throwing away cuts, changing keys, really?! You can't afford to do that on a weekly show, especially one with such a cut-throat schedule.

I really feel like a lot of people focus too much on model quality, rather than the motion on screen. The number of digitally transformed stills last night were embarrassing. Goku flipping and flopping during his flurry of punches was laughable. It was only a small portion of that Frost fight I consider acceptable.

Thank you for saying this. Z had a lot of off model moments as shown in those clips. But none of them were as bad as Super. Also, a lot of those clips have some good animation. Look at the explosions that Vegeta makes firing at Cell. The blasts look pretty good.

[Bansho64]

Many others may not feel like this but on another vote, I feel that the pacing in the Super anime is way too fast. (Universe 6 arc portion). I know we just got into this episode, but things went down really quick. It felt like the fights were rushed through. It didn't help that the animation was abysmal.

[ekrolo2]

Many others may not feel like this but on another vote, I feel that the pacing in the Super anime is way too fast. (Universe 6 arc portion). I know we just got into this episode, but things went down really quick. It felt like the fights were rushed through. It didn't help that the animation was abysmal.

Considering the fact the multiverse arc has taken about a whole year longer to happen than it should've (because fuck F the movie & their re-tellings) I'd say this is pretty damn appropriate pacing.

[Hit!!]

I don't know where this ridiculous misconception comes from that Z had worse animation than Super. It really doesn't.

If you're referring to me, I never said that Z was worse animated than Super. Thats not true AT ALL!!

What I mean't was that Z definitely had worse episodes than episode 33. Yes, I saw the episode again and yer, at least the fight with Botamo was utter garbage, but I think people in this forum are making it out to be even worse than it really is. I mean, we've been getting amazing episodes for 5 weeks in a row, it's only normal that we get a sub par one at a given moment. Don't get me wrong, there's absolutely no excuse whatsoever, but its not THAAAAAAAAAAAT bad!!!

As I said before, episode 24 and 25 looked 10 times worse and people didn't bitch that much. But I think it's because we've been a bit spoiled, which is a good thing.

What I do agree with, is that if they were going to do poor animation, they should've don it in one of the previous episodes.

[ArchedThunder]

You know, they're racking up a pretty good amount of well drawn key frames, especially for waist up (or higher) shots when characters are still, I wonder why they haven't started recycling some of those in new episodes to allow the team to focus on things unique to an episode.

[Hit!!]

Also what you say about someone changing key animation at the last moment is pretty scary. One badly animated episode in the uni 6 arc is nothing, but if they keep fucking up like this, Super can start digging its own grave

[PMD]

Hi everyone! First message! I love this topic (and the entire forum). I always come here after every episode to see what you say about animation and drawing.

Sorry if this is off-topic, but can someone please tell me if there is a topic to introduce myself? I don't want to be bothering here since I'm a rookie. Very exciting to be here! Greetings to everyone from Argentina!

[Wezenheim]

Hi everyone! First message! I love this topic (and the entire forum). I always come here after every episode to see what you say about animation and drawing.

Sorry if this is off-topic, but can someone please tell me if there is a topic to introduce myself? I don't want to be bothering here since I'm a rookie. Very exciting to be here! Greetings to everyone from Argentina!

Welcome to the forum, glad to see that you seem to be enjoying it thus far! As far as introducing yourself goes, this thread might be a good place to start, as you can post the languages you speak and country you live in: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=2008 The Website and Community Discussion Forum is a good place in general to interact with the community. Hope that helps, happy posting and hope you enjoy yourself here!

[Cursemark505]

So what are the chances of Toei having the animators working on One Piece Film Gold moved to Dragon Ball Super once the movie is finished?

Little to none.
Theres a chance someone like Onishi will animate for Super again in the distant future, and maybe they'll consider getting some other decent animators to do small cuts, but other than that, Toei doesn't seem interested in having some their better key animators work on Super.

The animators from Gold will go back to the One Piece anime, whichever studios they came from, some other Toei series, or to the 2 One Piece specials they're doing every year now.

[PMD]

Hi everyone! First message! I love this topic (and the entire forum). I always come here after every episode to see what you say about animation and drawing.

Sorry if this is off-topic, but can someone please tell me if there is a topic to introduce myself? I don't want to be bothering here since I'm a rookie. Very exciting to be here! Greetings to everyone from Argentina!

Welcome to the forum, glad to see that you seem to be enjoying it thus far! As far as introducing yourself goes, this thread might be a good place to start, as you can post the languages you speak and country you live in: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... f=1&t=2008 The Website and Community Discussion Forum is a good place in general to interact with the community. Hope that helps, happy posting and hope you enjoy yourself here!

Thank you very much, I did it.

My favourites key animators are Kitano, Tate and specially Osamu Ishikawa. And of course, Tadaoishi Yamamuro.

Thanks Ajay for this awesome topic and all the info.

[Psykomatik]

Wow. I hate Kitano. And unfortunately, i have the feeling Yamamuro is seeing in him the future of Dragon Ball. It seems to me like Kitano is like the pupil of Yamamuro... And i juste HATE Kitano. ;(

[Ajay]

Hi everyone! First message! I love this topic (and the entire forum). I always come here after every episode to see what you say about animation and drawing.
Thanks Ajay for this awesome topic and all the info.

First and foremost, welcome to Kanzenshuu! There's an overwhelming amount of information on this site, so you're definitely in the right place.

Thanks for the kind words regarding this topic. If you're interested to learn more about the process, the animation guide on the main page was recently updated - http://www.kanzenshuu.com/production/animation-process/ - so you may find something of interest there.

Happy posting!

[TheMikado]

Episode title spoilers

[Ajay]

Episode 34:

Spoiler:

Animation Supervisor:
Yoshitaka Yashima

Key Animators
Yashima Yoshitaka, Yokoyama Miyuki, Tu Yeong-chaek, and TAP.

I still think the show looks like garbage, but eh. I wasn't cringing like the first half of last week. Yashima as a supervisor is so hit and miss for me. Sometimes his style works nicely, and other times, the noses are hugely pointy and far up the face. It looks very bizarre. I get the feeling many of the pristine on-model shots are corrections by the chief supervisor.

In terms of actual movement, it's pretty pitiful, if we're honest. It's deeply depressing to be watching an arc that centers so heavily around action. In a tournament, you can't exactly not have fights for episodes at a time like you can with regular arcs. Just feels like they've pushed themselves into a corner now. I'll be interested to see what the future holds. Next episode looks incredibly on-model, at the very least. Here's hoping for something special since it's a Vegeta episode!

[Wezenheim]

Using multiple supervisors for episodes helps to get it done quicker right? I hope that later fights look a little better. Next week characters will actually be on model, so hooray for that!

[VejituhTheWarriorGuy]

Just want to let everyone know that Super is on break next week along with One Piece so you'll have to wait 2 weeks for the next ep.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

One moment that I thought was handled really well in this episode was when Piccolo was shot by Frost:

Spoiler:

I love how they decided to add a purple tone to when Frost leaps in front of Piccolo and then give everything a negative colour when he shoots him.

[Sodhi]

One moment that I thought was handled really well in this episode was when Piccolo was shot by Frost:

Spoiler:

I love how they decided to add a purple tone to when Frost leaps in front of Piccolo and then give everything a negative colour when he shoots him.

Looks like this was another one of those last minute changes. This is how it looked like in the last episode preview, unless it was a different scene.