Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

[Vegeta_Sama]

Apparently, the great toll of the limit-breaking power of gods only last even loss, cuz Goku is already fine and fighting next episode.

Ok, THIS triggers me. Where in the hell did you get that idea from? All the preview showed is Goku flying towards Jiren. He's sevearly wounded, and banged up, it clearly shows.Nowhere is it indicated that he's fine. He's in his base form for Christ's sake. You know, his WEAKER FORM?? It makes perfect sense for him to push himself even further in the final 30 seconds of the whole tournament. He fought for the entirety of it, do you think he's just gonna stand there in the final deciding moments? His universe is on the line, so it's totally belivable that he would do his best, even if his body took seveare punishment. I get the complaints about stamina in the last couple of episodes, but this is just bitching for no reason

[Doctor.]

The amount of people saying the writing is atrocious because Goku cares for his friends is mind blowing to me, do we all watch the same series? Goku can't fight for his friends?

What series have you guys been following for the last 20 years? Goku has always fought to protect his friends and gotten angry when they were hurt/killed.

At this point, I'm not sure if you people are purposefully misreading what we're saying for the sake of starting an argument. That's not the point we're making. That's not the point anyone was making. We're talking about the way it was presented, in an over-the-top, melodramatic, kitsch way that has no place in Dragon Ball and is better suited to a series like Fairy Tail where these kinds of cheesy speeches give you nonsensical and arbitrary power-ups for the sake of the spectacle. Goku caring about his friends doesn't need to be verbalized and shoved down your throat because it was always very clear subtext.

And I can predict the response to be the "B-But Super Saiyan! Super Saiyan 2!" false equivalency and I, once again, respond that the difference is in subtlety and nuance.

[Gaffer Tape]

I never post over in the Super section, but, geez, this episode was just absolutely terrible. If there's one thing that amazes me about this series is how, every time I think it's hit rock bottom, it always, always, ALWAYS finds a new way to disappoint. The only thing this episode had going for it was good animation, but that just means it looks pretty while having no substance. For the first two-thirds of the episode, I was just bored, but that's nothing new for me. This tournament has just gone on for so long that it's impossible for me to stay invested in it. Well, I should add that there's very little emotion in this arc to get me invested in the first place. But even if it did, it has long overstayed its welcome to the point that I can barely remember anything that happens anymore. It all just runs together. Case in point: when the recap started up this time, I honestly had to check to make sure I didn't skip an episode because none of that was ringing a bell.

But then, lo and behold, the episode finally managed to get my attention. I did somewhat enjoy the flashbacks and speeches. Although they were slightly cringy in their shonen stereotype kind of way, at least they seemed like they were finally trying to make this about something. And I was very curious to see where it went. And then Jiren, the most boring antagonist in Dragon Ball's history... cracked. And he attacked the stands. And for the first time in months, this show had my full, undivided attention. What was going to happen now? Had Jiren gone maverick? After all, that was coming dangerously close to hitting his own gods. What were they going to do about this? Well, turns out, and I really shouldn't have been surprised, the answer is nothing. As always, this show continues to take an interesting idea and do absolutely nothing creative with it.

And yet I could still overlook it to a degree because at least it motivated Goku, so it wasn't a total waste. So I was all prepared to witness the endgame, and concede that at least it ended on a relatively high note. Granted, for a second it looked like Goku was going to do that stupid ki-sharing thing again since this arc can't do anything without aping the Freeza Arc. But it didn't. Instead, in a very cool-looking segment, Goku's back exploded, and he went down. I was on the edge of my seat. What could have happened? For a moment, it occurred to me that maybe Freeza finally betrayed the team. To what end, who knows, but I couldn't wait to find out. And then, in the clunkiest bit of exposition in a tournament filled to the brim with clunky exposition, Whis reveals that Goku's Ultra Instinct just crapped out. What?

Do these people just not know how to end a story? Because it was the same problem with the Trunks Arc too. They had what could have been a satisfying ending and couldn't follow through with it because throwing in a lame twist was more important. And they didn't manage to learn their lesson with that! They had to do it again! But I still held out a glimmer of hope that if Goku did get taken out, maybe, just maybe, they'd manage to come up with an unpredictable ending. Maybe. But, no, they couldn't even do that. They just had to keep Goku safe. Oh, and then #17 just casually wandered back in going, "Hey, guys. I was just hiding under a rock for no reason. Oh? You thought I was dead? What in that scene made you think I was dead? I don't see how anybody would have even assumed that in the first place. Honestly, I can't imagine how you could have had any idea what was going on at all. Oh? The Grand Priest told you I was dead, and since that was literally all you had to go on, you just assumed he knew what he was talking about? No, he's an idiot. I'm alive. I just decided to make you sweat it out for the past month thinking I was dead for... reasons."

And now what? The next episode wraps everything up, right? So now what? A whole episode to deal with the aftermath would have been the smart thing to do. Now we have to have the final final battle and deal with the erasure and the winning and the wishing and the ending all in less than half an hour? I don't see how that could possibly be anything but rushed and disappointing. And maybe I'll be wrong. And if so, I'll gladly admit it. But I'm sick of giving this garbage the benefit of the doubt. Every single time I try to give it credit, I end up, at best, furious, and, more likely, just looking at my watch hoping this snooze-fest ends soon. This is going to be manga Freeza Arc ending all over again. They'll just hold on an image of the dragon and have the narrator rush through exposition of what everybody did.

I tried. I really tried. I've tried to give this show credit for the small successes it has had. I came into this arc hyped as all get out. I want to like this. But it's finally broken me. This show is a disaster. An absolute disaster. I hope it ends and never comes back again.

[Bebi Hatchiyack]

This episode was lit as fudge ^^

Loved everything from it damn.

10/10 my notation, also I loved the scene who looked similar to the one from HappinessCharge PreCure! ♥

[OverHeaven]

Apparently, the great toll of the limit-breaking power of gods only last even loss, cuz Goku is already fine and fighting next episode.

Ok, THIS triggers me. Where in the hell did you get that idea from? All the preview showed is Goku flying towards Jiren. He's sevearly wounded, and banged up, it clearly shows.Nowhere is it indicated that he's fine. He's in his base form for Christ's sake. You know, his WEAKER FORM?? It makes perfect sense for him to push himself even further in the final 30 seconds of the whole tournament. He fought for the entirety of it, do you think he's just gonna stand there in the final deciding moments? His universe is on the line, so it's totally belivable that he would do his best, even if his body took seveare punishment. I get the complaints about stamina in the last couple of episodes, but this is just bitching for no reason

1-Can you calm the fuck down? For fuck's sake, I wasn't bitching and it didn't even bother me, I was just saying what I think is going on. Jeez. Nowhere in my post, it shows that I'm pissed off at it, the last part was just talking about the 48 minutes in general. I already said how much I enjoyed this episode, and it's my favorite DBSuper episode of all time. but apparently, we are not even allowed to express our few "not so positive" thoughts now.

2-What you're saying makes no sense at all. Base form or not, doing his best or whatever, he can move freely, spin and fly around as he like. The after effects of MUI are clearly gone, except he may not be able to transform or something. Similar to Vegeta in 128.

[CriticalThinker]

I never post over in the Super section, but, geez, this episode was just absolutely terrible. If there's one thing that amazes me about this series is how, every time I think it's hit rock bottom, it always, always, ALWAYS finds a new way to disappoint. The only thing this episode had going for it was good animation, but that just means it looks pretty while having no substance. For the first two-thirds of the episode, I was just bored, but that's nothing new for me. This tournament has just gone on for so long that it's impossible for me to stay invested in it. Well, I should add that there's very little emotion in this arc to get me invested in the first place. But even if it did, it has long overstayed its welcome to the point that I can barely remember anything that happens anymore. It all just runs together. Case in point: when the recap started up this time, I honestly had to check to make sure I didn't skip an episode because none of that was ringing a bell.

But then, lo and behold, the episode finally managed to get my attention. I did somewhat enjoy the flashbacks and speeches. Although they were slightly cringy in their shonen stereotype kind of way, at least they seemed like they were finally trying to make this about something. And I was very curious to see where it went. And then Jiren, the most boring antagonist in Dragon Ball's history... cracked. And he attacked the stands. And for the first time in months, this show had my full, undivided attention. What was going to happen now? Had Jiren gone maverick? After all, that was coming dangerously close to hitting his own gods. What were they going to do about this? Well, turns out, and I really shouldn't have been surprised, the answer is nothing. As always, this show continues to take an interesting idea and do absolutely nothing creative with it.

And yet I could still overlook it to a degree because at least it motivated Goku, so it wasn't a total waste. So I was all prepared to witness the endgame, and concede that at least it ended on a relatively high note. Granted, for a second it looked like Goku was going to do that stupid ki-sharing thing again since this arc can't do anything without aping the Freeza Arc. But it didn't. Instead, in a very cool-looking segment, Goku's back exploded, and he went down. I was on the edge of my seat. What could have happened? For a moment, it occurred to me that maybe Freeza finally betrayed the team. To what end, who knows, but I couldn't wait to find out. And then, in the clunkiest bit of exposition in a tournament filled to the brim with clunky exposition, Whis reveals that Goku's Ultra Instinct just crapped out. What?

Do these people just not know how to end a story? Because it was the same problem with the Trunks Arc too. They had what could have been a satisfying ending and couldn't follow through with it because throwing in a lame twist was more important. And they didn't manage to learn their lesson with that! They had to do it again! But I still held out a glimmer of hope that if Goku did get taken out, maybe, just maybe, they'd manage to come up with an unpredictable ending. Maybe. But, no, they couldn't even do that. They just had to keep Goku safe. Oh, and then #17 just casually wandered back in going, "Hey, guys. I was just hiding under a rock for no reason. Oh? You thought I was dead? What in that scene made you think I was dead? I don't see how anybody would have even assumed that in the first place. Honestly, I can't imagine how you could have had any idea what was going on at all. Oh? The Grand Priest told you I was dead, and since that was literally all you had to go on, you just assumed he knew what he was talking about? No, he's an idiot. I'm alive. I just decided to make you sweat it out for the past month thinking I was dead for... reasons."

And now what? The next episode wraps everything up, right? So now what? A whole episode to deal with the aftermath would have been the smart thing to do. Now we have to have the final final battle and deal with the erasure and the winning and the wishing and the ending all in less than half an hour? I don't see how that could possibly be anything but rushed and disappointing. And maybe I'll be wrong. And if so, I'll gladly admit it. But I'm sick of giving this garbage the benefit of the doubt. Every single time I try to give it credit, I end up, at best, furious, and, more likely, just looking at my watch hoping this snooze-fest ends soon. This is going to be manga Freeza Arc ending all over again. They'll just hold on an image of the dragon and have the narrator rush through exposition of what everybody did.

I tried. I really tried. I've tried to give this show credit for the small successes it has had. I came into this arc hyped as all get out. I want to like this. But it's finally broken me. This show is a disaster. An absolute disaster. I hope it ends and never comes back again.

Not saying you don't have some valid points here mate just like some others in this thread, but you do seem to be over reacting just a tiny bit. Anyways there's a movie coming out in December which follows up after this arc ends so we might not get everything wrapped up here. Also sad to say this but the show will most likely continue, now wether or not it will be under the guise of Super has yet to be determined.

[8bitdee]

But I'm sick of giving this garbage the benefit of the doubt.

...

I tried. I really tried. I've tried to give this show credit for the small successes it has had. I came into this arc hyped as all get out. I want to like this. But it's finally broken me. This show is a disaster. An absolute disaster. I hope it ends and never comes back again.

I love it when people say this type of thing at the end of a show. You already gave Toei your time and money for 131+ weeks. It's like being in an abusive relationship and finally leave the relationship only because the guy got arrested and is going to jail, but if he hadn't you'd still be in it. When you could've bailed on your own and sent Toei a message a long time ago that this shit doesn't fly well with you. But you didn't. And I'm not just saying you, Gaffer Tape, but the general you of people who have complained about how terrible this show is and shit on it every week but still come back every single week and give Toei another reason to keep this "terrible" thing going.

Stop watching something you don't like. Seriously, it's that simple. I did it, I never finished GT and am glad for it because I decided to stop torturing myself. What's the point getting emotionally angry every week about something you can just... quit?

Oh well.

Spring break is over for me. See y'all next weekend!

[Vegeta_Sama]

Apparently, the great toll of the limit-breaking power of gods only last even loss, cuz Goku is already fine and fighting next episode.

Ok, THIS triggers me. Where in the hell did you get that idea from? All the preview showed is Goku flying towards Jiren. He's sevearly wounded, and banged up, it clearly shows.Nowhere is it indicated that he's fine. He's in his base form for Christ's sake. You know, his WEAKER FORM?? It makes perfect sense for him to push himself even further in the final 30 seconds of the whole tournament. He fought for the entirety of it, do you think he's just gonna stand there in the final deciding moments? His universe is on the line, so it's totally belivable that he would do his best, even if his body took seveare punishment. I get the complaints about stamina in the last couple of episodes, but this is just bitching for no reason

1-Can you calm the fuck down? For fuck's sake, I wasn't bitching and it didn't even bother me, I was just saying what I think is going on. Jeez. Nowhere in my post, it shows that I'm pissed off at it, the last part was just talking about the 48 minutes in general. I already said how much I enjoyed this episode, and it's my favorite DBSuper episode of all time. but apparently, we are not even allowed to express our few "not so positive" thoughts now.

2-What you're saying makes no sense at all. Base form or not, doing his best or whatever, he can move freely, spin and fly around as he like. The after effects of MUI are clearly gone, except he may not be able to transform or something. Similar to Vegeta in 128.

1)No, I won't calm down. Bite me.
2)Yes, it does make sense. What you wrote on the other hand... You're talking like you experienced Ultra Instinct yourself How do you know that the toll of UI makes you unable to spin, fly and kick? Did you unlock it? Lol, I don't think so.

[Gaffer Tape]

I love it when people say this type of thing at the end of a show. You already gave Toei your time and money for 131+ weeks. It's like being in an abusive relationship and finally leave the relationship only because the guy got arrested and is going to jail, but if he hadn't you'd still be in it. When you could've bailed on your own and sent Toei a message a long time ago that this shit doesn't fly well with you. But you didn't. And I'm not just saying you, Gaffer Tape, but the general you of people who have complained about how terrible this show is and shit on it every week but still come back every single week and give Toei another reason to keep this "terrible" thing going.

Stop watching something you don't like. Seriously, it's that simple. I did it, I never finished GT and am glad for it because I decided to stop torturing myself. What's the point getting emotionally angry every week about something you can just... quit?

Because... as I said in the post, I only got to this point NOW. Because it's only started to become truly intolerable over the past few months while still managing to pull out a win every once in a while, and it would be stupid to get that close to the end without at least trying to see if it would all come together at the end.

I've seen this "defense" all over this subsection (which is one of the reasons I almost never venture in here), and it's really disingenuous. If you've been following something for 20 years, are you really not going to at least try to give it the benefit of the doubt? If you've been a regular member of the same Dragon Ball forum for nine years, are you going to just ignore it immediately? If you've been painstakingly analyzing the franchise on YouTube for six years, and your viewers expect you to get to Super one day, are you really going to drop the series one episode before it ends?

Trust me, I'm getting close to that point now. Super sucks. Dragon Ball Minus sucked. Resurrection 'F' sucked. If Super returns after this, I really will have to question whether it's worth it to continue. But I'd rather you debate my points, because throwing out the old chestnut of "if you don't like it, why don't you stop watching?" is about as tired and dismissive of actual thought as calling someone a "weeaboo." Each individual person has their own breaking point for dropping something, and theirs is no more or less valid than anyone else's. And rest assured, if I had dropped it months ago, someone would be claiming it wasn't fair for me to say it sucked because I don't know how it ended.

[Okara]

It really should’ve been Goku and Frieza or Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza instead of squeezing 17 back in where he clearly doesn’t belong. What a disappointment. Can’t wait until this series is over.

Unfortunately for you, there's a Super movie coming and probable return in in 2019. Ouchie.

“Probable” nothing. Dragon Ball Super is done. Hopefully they stick to movies, because they suck at writing it as a tv show.

Dragon Ball never should’ve been brought back as an episodic Television series. 90% of Super was nothing but a lazy cash grab with atrocious, disjointed writing.

[Asura]

For a moment, it occurred to me that maybe Freeza finally betrayed the team. To what end, who knows, but I couldn't wait to find out. And then, in the clunkiest bit of exposition in a tournament filled to the brim with clunky exposition, Whis reveals that Goku's Ultra Instinct just crapped out. What?

Your reaction makes sense seeing as how you have not much interest in this show and clearly weren't paying attention to some of the dialogue in previous episodes. At the very beginning of 129, Whis points out that Goku is running on a clock and he won't be able to maintain the form for long. In fact, every time Goku has activated Ultra Instinct it's been on a timer, with people like Whis and Jiren commenting that his time is up. I don't know how you haven't realized that by now.

“Probable” nothing. Dragon Ball Super is done. Hopefully they stick to movies, because they suck at writing it as a tv show.

Regardless of the show's poor writing, Super is almost most certainly not done. Toriyama even said in his most recent letter regarding the movie that "the animated version on TV will be ending for the time being."

[Gohan123]

https://www.reddit.com/r/dbz/comments/8 ... n_various/

Wow some country really like this episode

[Doctor.]

Your reaction makes sense seeing as how you have not much interest in this show and clearly weren't paying attention to some of the dialogue in previous episodes. At the very beginning of 129, Whis points out that Goku is running on a clock and he won't be able to maintain the form for long. In fact, every time Goku has activated Ultra Instinct it's been on a timer, with people like Whis and Jiren commenting that his time is up. I don't know how you haven't realized that by now.

Omen isn't the same form as """Mastered""" Ultra Instinct.

[Master Xar]

The amount of people saying the writing is atrocious because Goku cares for his friends is mind blowing to me, do we all watch the same series? Goku can't fight for his friends?

What series have you guys been following for the last 20 years? Goku has always fought to protect his friends and gotten angry when they were hurt/killed.

At this point, I'm not sure if you people are purposefully misreading what we're saying for the sake of starting an argument. That's not the point we're making. That's not the point anyone was making. We're talking about the way it was presented, in an over-the-top, melodramatic, kitsch way that has no place in Dragon Ball and is better suited to a series like Fairy Tail where these kinds of cheesy speeches give you nonsensical and arbitrary power-ups for the sake of the spectacle. Goku caring about his friends doesn't need to be verbalized and shoved down your throat because it was always very clear subtext.

And I can predict the response to be the "B-But Super Saiyan! Super Saiyan 2!" false equivalency and I, once again, respond that the difference is in subtlety and nuance.

...So? What’s the problem in Goku announcing it? They weren’t even being melodramatic about it, it’s two conflicting ideals being brought out in the open, melodramatic would be Goku giving a whole minute speech, Jiren breaking down to crying like a baby or talking about killing everyone then himself or some crap, but instead he is reasonably upset that he is losing again due to being too weak to win over somebody who has all the power he has, has the happiness that he doesn’t, and has people cheering him on because they actually like him for being him unlike Jiren who is cheered on for his power, not himself. He is a traumatized man and shows signs of PTSD. You don’t call a vietnam veteran having flashbacks and having a breakdown being “melodramatic”

Goku never gave a “cheesy speech” he said one line, that he is not a hero and he will not forgive those that bring harm to his friends, he also announced earlier that he would show Jiren than having allies and trust is a good thing. The power-ups were negligible and adrenaline fueled at best as well

Cheesy/cliché =/= objectively bad. There’s a said reality that years down the line that everything in media will be “cheesy/cliché” yet still well done.

[Master Xar]

Like honestly having your worldview and ideals crash around you as your about to literally cease to exist from someone who has your opposing, better one and succeeding all the while beating the ever living crap out of you, isn’t something you just take on the chin, smile, and walk away from, that fucks you up on the inside in some way, you see people being being more “melodramatic” in real life in politics and religion every other day.

[Asura]

Your reaction makes sense seeing as how you have not much interest in this show and clearly weren't paying attention to some of the dialogue in previous episodes. At the very beginning of 129, Whis points out that Goku is running on a clock and he won't be able to maintain the form for long. In fact, every time Goku has activated Ultra Instinct it's been on a timer, with people like Whis and Jiren commenting that his time is up. I don't know how you haven't realized that by now.

Omen isn't the same form as """Mastered""" Ultra Instinct.

Who ever said that mastering the form would get rid of the time limit? That was never implied. The "Omen" form was incomplete because he nailed the defensive aspect of the form but not the offensive aspect. "Mastered" Ultra Instinct was just him learning to fight without thinking as well as dodging without thinking. No one ever said that the time limit would go away if he mastered it.

[The Patrolman]

While I know for a fact that Goku has cared about his loved one more than a fight, the way this episode portrays this is very weak and generic. Like Doctor said this felt like Naruto or Fairy Tail. This is what I was talking about Super it tries to be a modern shounen when it just doesn't work. The loved ones and Power of Friendship as some sort of secret power does not work in a series like Dragon Ball.

[OverHeaven]

Ok, THIS triggers me. Where in the hell did you get that idea from? All the preview showed is Goku flying towards Jiren. He's sevearly wounded, and banged up, it clearly shows.Nowhere is it indicated that he's fine. He's in his base form for Christ's sake. You know, his WEAKER FORM?? It makes perfect sense for him to push himself even further in the final 30 seconds of the whole tournament. He fought for the entirety of it, do you think he's just gonna stand there in the final deciding moments? His universe is on the line, so it's totally belivable that he would do his best, even if his body took seveare punishment. I get the complaints about stamina in the last couple of episodes, but this is just bitching for no reason

1-Can you calm the fuck down? For fuck's sake, I wasn't bitching and it didn't even bother me, I was just saying what I think is going on. Jeez. Nowhere in my post, it shows that I'm pissed off at it, the last part was just talking about the 48 minutes in general. I already said how much I enjoyed this episode, and it's my favorite DBSuper episode of all time. but apparently, we are not even allowed to express our few "not so positive" thoughts now.

2-What you're saying makes no sense at all. Base form or not, doing his best or whatever, he can move freely, spin and fly around as he like. The after effects of MUI are clearly gone, except he may not be able to transform or something. Similar to Vegeta in 128.

1)No, I won't calm down. Bite me.
2)Yes, it does make sense. What you wrote on the other hand... You're talking like you experienced Ultra Instinct yourself How do you know that the toll of UI makes you unable to spin, fly and kick? Did you unlock it? Lol, I don't think so.

1-ok

2-Please tell me you are not trolling? By that childlish logic of yours, with all respect but let's be honest, there is no point in discussing anything regarding shonen cartoons as we haven't experienced anything ourselves. I can also use your own logic against you, but nah.

I said that because Goku clearly was completely unable to move at the end of this episode, take a look at his shaking arm for a bonus.
Even 17 and Frieza talked as though Goku should be completely useless right now (in that condition = MUI aftereffect)

[Olympian]

Cool to great coreography and fluid animation. Nice sequence with the gang (altho Super not showing once how Yamcha was Goku`s first real fight is balloney but consistant with how they portray the character, oh what was that? Goku wasn`t even Roshi`s pupil then? Neither was the other guy) but at least we see Chiatzu in the rest of the main DB antagonista cards - yes!

In terms of character, Freeza being a sneaky bum is also cool and well, it makes sense. 17 surviving does not. Pass. Goku for that one sequence looking and sounding like the Goku I personaly like, unlike so many other times in Super was refreshing but not wholly enough to save the main issue with the TOP. It`s been mostly boring and cliché. I still enjoy it time to time. I don`t hate it and I am glad new material is being made but I don`t find it amazing or must see either.

The less good from the episode? Anime Jiren looks even duller in full Tenshinahn Steroid mode. No hats from you sir.

The even less good? Ultra Limit was made (akin to early DB styles) to actually look like a fighting style and more than half of the coreography is bang bang shot you dead with dodging. I know, I know we`re in the XXI Century but I look at UL and imagine how cool it would have been in early Bodukai against the Crane or Wolf Fang Fist.

[Asura]

The loved ones and Power of Friendship as some sort of secret power does not work in a series like Dragon Ball.

Can you actually explain why not?
Funny, I don't remember anyone bitching about this when Goku got a power boost after hearing what happened to Chi-Chi and Goten.