How do you feel about the trope where everyone waits for Goku?

[Kenji]

The difference is that Mr. Satan was firmly established as weak, a fraud, a coward and a side gag character.
Videl was established as a fighter, brave, strong and a main character alongside Gohan, Trunks and Goten.

No one is going to complain Mr. Satan is weak because he's nowhere near as serious as VIdel was as a martial artist.

[super michael]

The difference is that Mr. Satan was firmly established as weak, a fraud, a coward and a side gag character.
Videl was established as a fighter, brave, strong and a main character alongside Gohan, Trunks and Goten.

No one is going to complain Mr. Satan is weak because he's nowhere near as serious as Videl was as a martial artist.

True you are right, everyone that knows the truth about Mr Satan see him as a weak coward, who lied to make himself famous. He thinks he is too good to train, the wrong mentality to have.

Videl is far better than Mr Satan in everything.
Videl counts as part of the new generation like Gohan, Goten and Trunks.

[super michael]

In DBS Chi Chi doesn't allow Goku to teach or train Goten at all, basically he isn't allowed to be a father. Chi Chi didn't want Gohan to raise Pan as he likes, she put Bulma above Gohan. Basically Gohan being a father means nothing to Chi Chi.

Funny how JulieYBM doesn't care about that. But JulieYBM cares about Videl being weak compared to the villains and Z fighters and even makes accusations towards a member for not having the same opinion and saying that talking to said member is a waste of time.

In DBS Goten and Trunks are weak compared to the Z fighters and they are treated like pest if they want to join a fight, competition or to save the world, but again I don't see JulieYBM say anything. If they want to train, again they are treated like pest. So they want to gain power, but are clearly not allowed to do so.

[Majin Buu]

There is nothing wrong with Videl being weak compared to the Z fighters, when she is written to be a ordinary human who didn't do any special training.

She's no ordinary human. That's factually incorrect. On a couple levels:

1. She's the daughter of the "savior of the world", a celebrity- that fights crime as a side gig. Not an ordinary human.

2. She's a martial artist acknowledged in the story to be far stronger than her martial artist celebrity father- who's far more of an "ordinary human" as a martial artist than she ends up being due to...

3. Training with Gohan to learn how to use ki to eventually fly. Considering most normal humans on Earth seemingly have no clue about ki (not even her martial artist father, who's in a story where many martial artists are at least aware of its existence) , I'd call that "special training" by normal human standards.

4. The strongest thing she's shown doing is twisting Spopovich's neck 180 degrees with a full strength kick. Literal magic was the only reason Spopovich wasn't killed (and she's about to be disqualified because it initially looks like she straight up killed him). NOT AN ORDINARY HUMAN.

It makes sense for your position that you're underselling the character in trying to defend how the story treats her.

[super michael]

There is nothing wrong with Videl being weak compared to the Z fighters, when she is written to be a ordinary human who didn't do any special training.

She's no ordinary human. That's factually incorrect. On a couple levels:

1. She's the daughter of the "savior of the world", a celebrity- that fights crime as a side gig. Not an ordinary human.

2. She's a martial artist acknowledged in the story to be far stronger than her martial artist celebrity father- who's far more of an "ordinary human" as a martial artist than she ends up being due to...

3. Training with Gohan to learn how to use ki to eventually fly. Considering most normal humans on Earth seemingly have no clue about ki (not even her martial artist father, who's in a story where many martial artists are at least aware of its existence) , I'd call that "special training" by normal human standards.

4. The strongest thing she's shown doing is twisting Spopovich's neck 180 degrees with a full strength kick. Literal magic was the only reason Spopovich wasn't killed (and she's about to be disqualified because it initially looks like she straight up killed him).

It makes sense for your position that you're underselling the character in trying to defend how the story treats her.

Before Master Roshi trained Goku and Kuririn, in the manga when he see both Goku and Kuririn speed in running he says this:

Master Roshi - Well, now... That was incredible... You're both quite amazing... But you are both still within human limits! In order to become a master of martial arts, you must break the wall of humanity! That is the challenge.

Goku time - 8.5 seconds
Kuririn time - 10.4 seconds
Master Roshi time - 5.6 seconds

Eventually both Kuririn and Goku surpassed wild animal such as shark, dinosaurs and even performed better than machines. Everything about their stamina, strength, speed and strength were beyond anything normal human has. Goku got so strong, that just a finger he could ring out his opponent and he was holding back.

For a human Mr Satan is strong, but he is still within the human limits.
As for Videl, with your third and fourth point that is proof that she is beyond the human limits. I guess it is easy to underestimate her, since we are used to seeing characters having the power the blow up the moon an example.
Both Master Roshi and Piccolo destroyed the moon like it was nothing.

With your example, it should be possible for Videl to out perform machines and outrun sharks and dinosaur very easy.

[super michael]

Now Pan in EOZ she is only 4 years old, but she is already above the human limit. She can fly around the entire world without any problem and she can beat up martial artist like they are nothing. The only one that she would lose is to the Saiyans, Uub or Buu.

For a moment pretend GT doesn't exist and pretend EOZ is new. People expected Pan to eventually gain Super Saiyans transform and even gain an Ultimate form or even something that combines SSJ and Ultimate. Pan is born intelligent and strong fight, which one of them has SSJ2/Ultimate form.


- Gohan > Goku in both power and intelligence when they had their kids. Plus Gohan forms were stronger.
- Videl > Chi Chi in both power and intelligence when they had their kids.

Pan has Videl and Gohan who can train and teach her.



Edit as for the Buu Saga Tournament, this is what the machine said about the fighters:

Mr Satan = 137
C18 holding back = 774
C18 holding back even more = 203 points
Kuririn holding back = 192
Goku holdin back = 186
Piccolo holidngb back = 210
Vegeta = Unknown he destroyed the machine


Videl is shocked at the Z fighters level of strength on the machine, she is surprised that Gohan isn't shocked at all that Vegeta broke the machine.

We didn't get to see Gohan and Videl punch the machine.