Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[DBZGTKOSDH]

U. Gohan & SS3 Gotenks were stronger than Evil Boo, while SS3 Goku & SS2 Vegeta combined were stated to be no match for Evil Boo, except if they use Fusion/Potara. Then, SS3 Goku can definitely manage something against Pure Boo.

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh... Pure Boo just can't be stronger than Evil Boo.

Unless of course Goku was lying.

And why would Goku be lying?

[khalildh]

U. Gohan & SS3 Gotenks were stronger than Evil Boo, while SS3 Goku & SS2 Vegeta combined were stated to be no match for Evil Boo, except if they use Fusion/Potara. Then, SS3 Goku can definitely manage something against Pure Boo.

Yeeeeaaaaahhhhh... Pure Boo just can't be stronger than Evil Boo.

Unless of course Goku was lying.

And why would Goku be lying?

So he could let one of boys finish off Boo. I also think its a bit odd that at that point in time Goku had not used SSJ3 at all while inside Boo.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Dude, there's no reason for him to lie here.... That train of thought is completely void of logic. I can understand why people write off Goku claiming Gotenks would be stronger than he was when he was trying to flaunt the importance of teaching the kids fusion, but inside Buu's body? Yeah, that makes no sense.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If Goku lied, he would have said so to Vegeta later. He admitted that he lied about not being able to beat Fat Boo because he wanted the kids to beat him, but he never said anything about Evil Boo. Goku was literally scared of Evil Boo (even though he was acting cocky in frond of him). When Evil Boo changed to S. Kaioshin Boo, Goku was still freaking scared because he was getting even stronger, but when he changed to Pure Boo, he was confident all the time that with Super Saiyan 3, he could beat Boo.

[KentalSSJ6]

If Goku lied, he would have said so to Vegeta later. He admitted that he lied about not being able to beat Fat Boo because he wanted the kids to beat him, but he never said anything about Evil Boo. Goku was literally scared of Evil Boo (even though he was acting cocky in frond of him). When Evil Boo changed to S. Kaioshin Boo, Goku was still freaking scared because he was getting even stronger, but when he changed to Pure Boo, he was confident all the time that with Super Saiyan 3, he could beat Boo.

Basically its this.

SSJ3 Goku > Fat Buu

SSJ3 Goku < Super Buu

SSJ3 Goku > Kid Buu (If at full power)

[RandomGuy96]

SSJ3 Goku > Kid Buu (If at full power)

No, Pure Buu dominated the fight and Goku heavily implied Pure Buu had a decent lead, since he said that he'd need to get faaaaaar better if he was ever going to beat him one on one.

[TheMightyOzaru]

If Goku were to concentrate a full power Kamehameha, he could kill Pure Buu, that's what KentalSSJ6 is implying. Goku said he could do so himself.

[KentalSSJ6]

If Goku were to concentrate a full power Kamehameha, he could kill Pure Buu, that's what KentalSSJ6 is implying. Goku said he could do so himself.

Indeed, I'm going off the old Z english dub here by Vegeta basically says "Come on Kakarot, at Super Saiyan 3 you could crush this blob!"

To which Goku says "Maybe, if I was at full power."

So yeah, SSJ3 Goku at full power > Kid Buu

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku and Vegeta have the exact same exchange in the manga too....

[KentalSSJ6]

Goku and Vegeta have the exact same exchange in the manga too....

Which only further proves my point.

[dbzfan7]

Is it safe to come back now?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Is it safe to come back now?

Probably.

[kuartus4]

These are my power levels:

Namek:

SSJ Goku=150,000,000
100% Frieza=136,365,000

Trunks Saga:

King Cold=75,000,000
Suppressed Mecha Frieza=75,000,000
100% Mecha Frieza=150,000,000
SSJ Future Trunks=150,000,000
SSJ Yardrat Goku=165,000,000

Androids Saga:

Android 19=110,000,000
Android 20=121,900,000
Andriod 20 post yamcha=122,000,000
Android 20 post piccolo absorbtion=122,500,000
Sick SSJ Goku=146,250,000
Goku post khh=110,000,000
Android 19 post khh=146,250,000
Android 19(vs Vegeta)=150,000,000
Android 19 post vegeta absorbtion=184,125,000
Vegeta post absorbtion=170,625,000
Vegeta post Big Bang=121,875,000
Piccolo=163,800,000
SSJ Trunks=170,625,000
Healthy SSJ Goku=195,000,000
SSJ Vegeta=204,750,000
Imperfect Cell pre absorbtions=247,750,000
Android 18=273,000,000
Android 17=286,650,000
Kamiccolo=286,650,000
Android 16=430,000,000
Imperfect Cell post absorbtions=430,000,000

Cell Saga:

Initial Semi Perfect Cell=645,000,000
SSJ Trunks=764,425,000
SSJ Vegeta=802,646,000
Full power Semi Cell=903,000,000
ASSJ Trunks=1,146,638,000
ASSJ Vegeta=1,203,970,000
Initial Perfect Cell=1,605,250,000
USSJ Trunks=1,911,063,000
50% MSSJ Goku=2,293,210,000
Ultra Buff Initial Perfect Cell=4,013,125,000

Cell Games:

Piccolo=2,750,000,000
SSJ Trunks=3,284,000,000
SSJ Vegeta=3,448,200,000
100% MSSJ Goku=4,586,420,000
Power Up Perfect Cell=5,045,060,000
MSSJ Gohan=5,801,800,000
Cell Jr.=3,200,000,000

SSJ2 Gohan=11,603,600,000
Full power Perfect Cell=7,567,600,000
Cell after khh & regen=4,540,560,000
Giant Buff Perfect Cell=8,475,710,000
Super Perfect Cell=10,090,120,000


Buu Saga:

Kibito=50,000,000
Piccolo=3,300,000,000
MSSJ Goten=3,485,680,000
MSSJ Trunks=3,694,820,000
MSSJ Gohan=4,357,100,000
MSSJ Pre Majin Vegeta=4,586,420,000
Kaioshin=4,600,000,000
MSSJ Goku=6,100,000,000
MSSJ Majin Vegeta=6,100,000,000
Dabura=5,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan=8,714,200,000
SSJ2 Goku=12,200,000,000
SSJ2 Majin Vegeta=12,200,000,000

SSJ2 Gohan(post z sword)=33,950,000,000
SSJ3 Goku=48,800,000,000
SSJ Gotenks(pre rosat)=51,250,000,000
Fat Buu=39,040,000,000

SSJ Trunks(post rosat)=5,625,730,000
SSJ Goten(post rosat)=5,307,295,000
Kibitoshin=11,000,000,000


SSJ Gotenks(post rosat)=78,033,250,000
SSJ3 Gotenks=624,266,000,000
Super Buu=567,515,000,000
Mystic Gohan=822,896,000,000
Gotenks Buu=1,194,980,000,000
Piccolo buu=572,275,665,000
Gohan Buu=1,395,170,000,000
Super Vegetto=2,092,755,000,000

Buff Buu=881,000,000,000
Kid Buu=48,000,000,000

[RandomGuy96]

If Goku were to concentrate a full power Kamehameha, he could kill Pure Buu, that's what KentalSSJ6 is implying. Goku said he could do so himself.

Indeed, I'm going off the old Z english dub here by Vegeta basically says "Come on Kakarot, at Super Saiyan 3 you could crush this blob!"

To which Goku says "Maybe, if I was at full power."

So yeah, SSJ3 Goku at full power > Kid Buu

Doesn't happen in the manga. This quote does, but he was probably referring to a big Kamehameha, which is especially implied by his last line:

Chapter: 510 (DBZ 316), P13.1-6
Vegeta: “Don’t hesitate for my sake, and finish him off! With that Super Saiyan 3, you should be able to completely wipe out Boo with your ki once you gather it with all your might…!”
Goku: “Ye…yeah…I’ve been thinking of doing that as well since awhile back, but…I haven’t gotten the chance.”
Vegeta: “Eh?”
Goku: “If I want to wipe him out, I gotta gather ki for about one minute.”
Vegeta: “One minute?!”
Goku: “Dammnit~~~If it was with the Potara, I could have done it in one blast..."

So yeah, Pure Buu > SS3 Goku.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I don't see what you're trying to convey here. All you're doing is further cementing the fact that Goku believes he can beat Buu with his full power. Yeah, I agree that Pure Buu is stronger than Goku in a battle of fisticuffs, but a full power Kamehameha aught to finish him.

These are my power levels:

Spoiler:

Namek:

SSJ Goku=150,000,000
100% Freeza=136,365,000

Trunks Saga:

King Cold=75,000,000
Suppressed Mecha Freeza=75,000,000
100% Mecha Freeza=150,000,000
SSJ Future Trunks=150,000,000
SSJ Yardrat Goku=165,000,000

Androids Saga:

Android 19=110,000,000
Android 20=121,900,000
Andriod 20 post yamcha=122,000,000
Android 20 post piccolo absorbtion=122,500,000
Sick SSJ Goku=146,250,000
Goku post khh=110,000,000
Android 19 post khh=146,250,000
Android 19(vs Vegeta)=150,000,000
Android 19 post vegeta absorbtion=184,125,000
Vegeta post absorbtion=170,625,000
Vegeta post Big Bang=121,875,000
Piccolo=163,800,000
SSJ Trunks=170,625,000
Healthy SSJ Goku=195,000,000
SSJ Vegeta=204,750,000
Imperfect Cell pre absorbtions=247,750,000
Android 18=273,000,000
Android 17=286,650,000
Kamiccolo=286,650,000
Android 16=430,000,000
Imperfect Cell post absorbtions=430,000,000

Cell Saga:

Initial Semi Perfect Cell=645,000,000
SSJ Trunks=764,425,000
SSJ Vegeta=802,646,000
Full power Semi Cell=903,000,000
ASSJ Trunks=1,146,638,000
ASSJ Vegeta=1,203,970,000
Initial Perfect Cell=1,605,250,000
USSJ Trunks=1,911,063,000
50% MSSJ Goku=2,293,210,000
Ultra Buff Initial Perfect Cell=4,013,125,000

Cell Games:

Piccolo=2,750,000,000
SSJ Trunks=3,284,000,000
SSJ Vegeta=3,448,200,000
100% MSSJ Goku=4,586,420,000
Power Up Perfect Cell=5,045,060,000
MSSJ Gohan=5,801,800,000
Cell Jr.=3,200,000,000

SSJ2 Gohan=11,603,600,000
Full power Perfect Cell=7,567,600,000
Cell after khh & regen=4,540,560,000
Giant Buff Perfect Cell=8,475,710,000
Super Perfect Cell=10,090,120,000


Buu Saga:

Kibito=50,000,000
Piccolo=3,300,000,000
MSSJ Goten=3,485,680,000
MSSJ Trunks=3,694,820,000
MSSJ Gohan=4,357,100,000
MSSJ Pre Majin Vegeta=4,586,420,000
Kaioshin=4,600,000,000
MSSJ Goku=6,100,000,000
MSSJ Majin Vegeta=6,100,000,000
Dabura=5,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan=8,714,200,000
SSJ2 Goku=12,200,000,000
SSJ2 Majin Vegeta=12,200,000,000

SSJ2 Gohan(post z sword)=33,950,000,000
SSJ3 Goku=48,800,000,000
SSJ Gotenks(pre rosat)=51,250,000,000
Fat Buu=39,040,000,000

SSJ Trunks(post rosat)=5,625,730,000
SSJ Goten(post rosat)=5,307,295,000
Kibitoshin=11,000,000,000


SSJ Gotenks(post rosat)=78,033,250,000
SSJ3 Gotenks=624,266,000,000
Super Buu=567,515,000,000
Mystic Gohan=822,896,000,000
Gotenks Buu=1,194,980,000,000
Piccolo buu=572,275,665,000
Gohan Buu=1,395,170,000,000
Super Vegetto=2,092,755,000,000

Buff Buu=881,000,000,000
Kid Buu=48,000,000,000

A lot of those numbers are quite arbitrary . I don't mean that as an insult BTW, they are just look random from a far. I would like to point out though that the Daizenshuu makes it quite clear that Freeza's max is 120,000,000. No more, no less. I would also like to know how Trunks maimed Freeza if they were equals?

[kuartus4]

I don't see what you're trying to convey here. All you're doing is further cementing the fact that Goku believes he can beat Buu with his full power. Yeah, I agree that Pure Buu is stronger than Goku in a battle of fisticuffs, but a full power Kamehameha aught to finish him.

These are my power levels:

Spoiler:

Namek:

SSJ Goku=150,000,000
100% Freeza=136,365,000

Trunks Saga:

King Cold=75,000,000
Suppressed Mecha Freeza=75,000,000
100% Mecha Freeza=150,000,000
SSJ Future Trunks=150,000,000
SSJ Yardrat Goku=165,000,000

Androids Saga:

Android 19=110,000,000
Android 20=121,900,000
Andriod 20 post yamcha=122,000,000
Android 20 post piccolo absorbtion=122,500,000
Sick SSJ Goku=146,250,000
Goku post khh=110,000,000
Android 19 post khh=146,250,000
Android 19(vs Vegeta)=150,000,000
Android 19 post vegeta absorbtion=184,125,000
Vegeta post absorbtion=170,625,000
Vegeta post Big Bang=121,875,000
Piccolo=163,800,000
SSJ Trunks=170,625,000
Healthy SSJ Goku=195,000,000
SSJ Vegeta=204,750,000
Imperfect Cell pre absorbtions=247,750,000
Android 18=273,000,000
Android 17=286,650,000
Kamiccolo=286,650,000
Android 16=430,000,000
Imperfect Cell post absorbtions=430,000,000

Cell Saga:

Initial Semi Perfect Cell=645,000,000
SSJ Trunks=764,425,000
SSJ Vegeta=802,646,000
Full power Semi Cell=903,000,000
ASSJ Trunks=1,146,638,000
ASSJ Vegeta=1,203,970,000
Initial Perfect Cell=1,605,250,000
USSJ Trunks=1,911,063,000
50% MSSJ Goku=2,293,210,000
Ultra Buff Initial Perfect Cell=4,013,125,000

Cell Games:

Piccolo=2,750,000,000
SSJ Trunks=3,284,000,000
SSJ Vegeta=3,448,200,000
100% MSSJ Goku=4,586,420,000
Power Up Perfect Cell=5,045,060,000
MSSJ Gohan=5,801,800,000
Cell Jr.=3,200,000,000

SSJ2 Gohan=11,603,600,000
Full power Perfect Cell=7,567,600,000
Cell after khh & regen=4,540,560,000
Giant Buff Perfect Cell=8,475,710,000
Super Perfect Cell=10,090,120,000


Buu Saga:

Kibito=50,000,000
Piccolo=3,300,000,000
MSSJ Goten=3,485,680,000
MSSJ Trunks=3,694,820,000
MSSJ Gohan=4,357,100,000
MSSJ Pre Majin Vegeta=4,586,420,000
Kaioshin=4,600,000,000
MSSJ Goku=6,100,000,000
MSSJ Majin Vegeta=6,100,000,000
Dabura=5,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan=8,714,200,000
SSJ2 Goku=12,200,000,000
SSJ2 Majin Vegeta=12,200,000,000

SSJ2 Gohan(post z sword)=33,950,000,000
SSJ3 Goku=48,800,000,000
SSJ Gotenks(pre rosat)=51,250,000,000
Fat Buu=39,040,000,000

SSJ Trunks(post rosat)=5,625,730,000
SSJ Goten(post rosat)=5,307,295,000
Kibitoshin=11,000,000,000


SSJ Gotenks(post rosat)=78,033,250,000
SSJ3 Gotenks=624,266,000,000
Super Buu=567,515,000,000
Mystic Gohan=822,896,000,000
Gotenks Buu=1,194,980,000,000
Piccolo buu=572,275,665,000
Gohan Buu=1,395,170,000,000
Super Vegetto=2,092,755,000,000

Buff Buu=881,000,000,000
Kid Buu=48,000,000,000

A lot of those numbers are quite arbitrary . I don't mean that as an insult BTW, they are just look random from a far. I would like to point out though that the Daizenshuu makes it quite clear that Freeza's max is 120,000,000. No more, no less. I would also like to know how Trunks maimed Freeza if they were equals?

They do look random. But that because I used a calculator to arrive at exact PL's given the power gaps I use.

As for frieza, he was suppressed vs trunks, which is why he got killed easily.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Why would he be suppressed?

[kuartus4]

Why would he be suppressed?

He just was. Gohan said he gets a lot more powerful than that when he sensed mecha frieza's ki.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Why would he be suppressed?

He just was. Gohan said he gets a lot more powerful than that when he sensed mecha Freeza's ki.

What prevents him from powering up against Trunks?

[Super Vegetto]

His body mass didn't incrise and he obviously can't incrise his strenght to 100% in instant as showed on Namek.

His power level never changed since Gohan stated it, and no, he can't incrise his power in ki attack...