Unpopular DB opinions

[Ree]

Isn't Teen Gohan the same as Ss2 "kid Gohan" or do you mean Teen Gohan in regular form?

[ABED]

Besides that, everything happens too quickly. More so than every other DBZ movie; there's no proper build-up to anything, IIRC.
-Everyone is already at Namek
-Giant colony and robotssssss everywhere.
-Cooler is randomly the main culprit
-Him and Goku immediately start fighting.

No need for "build" they already have a previous movie to set up the villain, and how is it negative to jump into the story? DB movies aren't complex, so a lot of pipe doesn't need to be layed. Everyone isn't already on Namek, the movie starts with the Z Team flying towards Namek. I fail to see any issue with Goku and Coola starting the fight immediately.

What was random about Coola being the culprit?

[MajinMan]

Isn't Teen Gohan the same as Ss2 "kid Gohan" or do you mean Teen Gohan in regular form?

The video games call him "Teen Gohan," but he was only like 9 or 10 years old in the manga. The "Kid Gohan" I'm talking about is the one during the Cell Games. My "Teen Gohan" is the Buu Arc one.

[Soppa Saia People]

Isn't Teen Gohan the same as Ss2 "kid Gohan" or do you mean Teen Gohan in regular form?

Teen gohan is boo saga gohan. Ssj 2 kid gohan is cell games gohan. (Side note 30th post cue ff7 victory theme)

[fadeddreams5]

I thought the bad animation was incredibly noticeable especially in the fight between base/Kaioken Goku and Coola, and even early parts of the SS fight. Completely destroyed my enjoyment the first time I watched it. It's just as bad to look at as most of episode 5 of Super.

Really? I just rewatched the battle. There are a few noticeable iffy shots, but the battle itself looks good and flows well enough to be enjoyable, imo. And I don't even like the movie. lol.

No need for "build" they already have a previous movie to set up the villain, and how is it negative to jump into the story? DB movies aren't complex, so a lot of pipe doesn't need to be layed. Everyone isn't already on Namek, the movie starts with the Z Team flying towards Namek. I fail to see any issue with Goku and Coola starting the fight immediately.

What was random about Coola being the culprit?

What's not random about Cooler being the main culprit? He's supposed to be dead. We saw him get blasted to the sun. The movie starts off by showing us this strange sentient colony devouring New Namek. Like Kamiccolo said, that could have been the main villain, and any humanoid incarnation of it. But instead... Cooler randomly reveals himself to be the mastermind. Like, he literally just randomly steps into the scene. This is something common in fanfics: no build up; just throw in an old enemy into the story because.

As for everything else, a lot of DBZ movies start up with some build up to the battle with the villain. It doesn't need to be complex. Like, the first one begins with Gohan being kidnapped and Piccolo being easily defeated. Goku wants to save his son and Piccolo wants revenge. Meanwhile, Kami has to face an old enemy. Gohan has a humorous little experience with the villains, and then the gang arrive to defeat the bad guys before the final battle with Garlic Jr. In the Broly movie, first they head to the new Planet Vegeta in search of a mysterious SSJ, and Gohan notices the residents of the planets being enslaved before the truth is revealed and Broly shows his true colors. In Return of Cooler, you have a quick narrative saying shit is happening on New Namek, the guys get there by the time the opening theme ends, and Goku starts fighting Cooler 8 minutes in while everyone else fights robots. That's basically the entire movie...

[Hellspawn28]

Movie 6 was one of the better movies.

I've always thought so. I've never really understood the criticisms against it.

"It's a rehash of Mecha Freeza!!!!" "How?" "It's got a Metal Freeza guy!" "Okay, but how is Cooler anything like Mecha Freeza apart from being metal?" "HE'S A RE-HASH!!!!"

Well given how they both destroyed into pieces after fighting SSj Goku and both where drifting in space until their remains where found. Both where rebuild into cyborgs and went to the opposite planets that they where last on in mechanical form (Freeza went to Earth and Coola to Namek). That's why people feel like Metal Coola is a rehash of Cyborg Freeza.

[ABED]

What's not random about Cooler being the main culprit? He's supposed to be dead

Pick another adjective. Using a villain from a previous film, even a dead one doesn't equal random. You keep using the word random. I do not think it means what you think it means.

And there is build up, Namek is being destroyed again, Goku and friends travel there to help, a battle ensues. The buildup was in the previous movie. Goku has history with the villain. Coola got an upgrade that allows up to fight on a higher level than before.

In the Broly movie, first they head to the new Planet Vegeta in search of a mysterious SSJ, and Gohan notices the residents of the planets being enslaved before the truth is revealed and Broly shows his true colors. In Return of Cooler, you have a quick narrative saying shit is happening on New Namek, the guys get there by the time the opening theme ends, and Goku starts fighting Cooler 8 minutes in while everyone else fights robots. That's basically the entire movie...

And? KISS - Keep it simple, stupid. Great advice, hurts my feelings every time. Everyone can easily understand revenge as a motive, and Coola is continuing his expansionist ways. No reason to go any more complex than that.

[Hellspawn28]

I thought most complaints came from the animation of the movie, rather than the plot itself.

Movie 6 has some really bad writing. Here's what wrong with the story in DBZ Movie 6:

- How did the hell did Vegeta show up in the movie? How did he know that Goku and the others where on New Namek?
- How did Vegeta get the Saiyan Pod in the film if the others where destroyed? Won't he used a Capsule Corp ship instead?
- If the movie is also set before #19 and Dr. Gero show up then how did they know where New Namek is at? Goku had no idea where it was until he visit King Kai later on in the Cell saga.
- If the movie is set before #19 and Dr. Gero show up then how is Dende the god of the Earth?
- If the movie is set before Dr. Gero and #19 show up then why leave Earth if the cyborgs are roaming Earth and causing havoc. They won't leave the Earth in danger so easily.
- If Kami and Piccolo had already merged in this film, so why is Piccolo so weak all of the sudden? He should be as strong as Goku or Vegeta, if not stronger?
- Why did Goku go Kaioken right off the bat during his battle with Coola when he go SSj anytime now seeing that he knows Coola is stronger now and he knew that Super Saiyan would be required to beat him?
- Both Metal Coola and Goku can teleport without concentrating on a particular individual's ki signature. So how come Goku can teleport without locking on a ki signature in the movie, but he still needs to in the anime TV series and manga?
- Why would Coola create 500,000,000,000 Coola clones if you are going to make them much weaker then yourself? Why didn't he just made them just as powerful as himself?
If the movie is set during the 7 days Cell game break then where the hell is Trunks, why Gohan is still shorter then Krillin, why can't Gohan go SSj, why don't Goku and Vegeta go beyond SSj? Also Goku should be in his FPSSj form instead his base form if it's during the 7 day break for the Cell games.
- When Coola was rebuild as Metal Coola, why did he chose to go to New Namek instead Earth? Earth was the Planet that Goku and the others live on. I doubt that he knew that Goku and the others where going to New Namek.

Everything about the writing in Movie 6 is terrible. The more you watch the movie, the more that the plot holes start to show.

[ABED]

- If the movie is also set before #19 and Dr. Gero show up then how did they know where New Namek is at? Goku had no idea where it was until he visit King Kai later on in the Cell saga.

Dende is the one that told them about the problem. The movie isn't in continuity, so the events of the film don't need to track with the events of the series.

[fadeddreams5]

Pick another adjective. Using a villain from a previous film, even a dead one doesn't equal random. You keep using the word random. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Squeezing him into a plot that didn't need him to work sort of is. We don't see any connection between him and the star, or any build up to his appearance. The movie is clearly about the Geti Star. He just sort of... appeared and claimed he merged with it. So many other villains could have taken his place, like Dr. Wheelo, who would have actually made more sense.

And there is build up, Namek is being destroyed again, Goku and friends travel there to help, a battle ensues. The buildup was in the previous movie. Goku has history with the villain. Coola got an upgrade that allows up to fight on a higher level than before.

What build up? Cooler's story ended with the first movie. He died. We saw him die! This movie was set up to be about the giant colony devouring Namek.

[ABED]

Squeezing him into a plot that didn't need him to work sort of is. We don't see any connection between him and the star, or any build up to his appearance. The movie is clearly about the Geti Star. He just sort of... appeared and claimed he merged with it. So many other villains could have taken his place, like Dr. Wheelo, who would have actually made more sense.

None of it is "necessary". The movie wasn't ever about the Geti Star, that's the McGuffin. Dr. Wheel would've been a very random pull, he's a C-Grade villain.

[Kamiccolo9]

I thought most complaints came from the animation of the movie, rather than the plot itself.

Movie 6 has some really bad writing. Here's what wrong with the story in DBZ Movie 6:

- How did the hell did Vegeta show up in the movie? How did he know that Goku and the others where on New Namek?
- How did Vegeta get the Saiyan Pod in the film if the others where destroyed? Won't he used a Capsule Corp ship instead?
- If the movie is also set before #19 and Dr. Gero show up then how did they know where New Namek is at? Goku had no idea where it was until he visit King Kai later on in the Cell saga.
- If the movie is set before #19 and Dr. Gero show up then how is Dende the god of the Earth?
- If the movie is set before Dr. Gero and #19 show up then why leave Earth if the cyborgs are roaming Earth and causing havoc. They won't leave the Earth in danger so easily.
- If Kami and Piccolo had already merged in this film, so why is Piccolo so weak all of the sudden? He should be as strong as Goku or Vegeta, if not stronger?
- Why did Goku go Kaioken right off the bat during his battle with Coola when he go SSj anytime now seeing that he knows Coola is stronger now and he knew that Super Saiyan would be required to beat him?
- Both Metal Coola and Goku can teleport without concentrating on a particular individual's ki signature. So how come Goku can teleport without locking on a ki signature in the movie, but he still needs to in the anime TV series and manga?
- Why would Coola create 500,000,000,000 Coola clones if you are going to make them much weaker then yourself? Why didn't he just made them just as powerful as himself?
If the movie is set during the 7 days Cell game break then where the hell is Trunks, why Gohan is still shorter then Krillin, why can't Gohan go SSj, why don't Goku and Vegeta go beyond SSj? Also Goku should be in his FPSSj form instead his base form if it's during the 7 day break for the Cell games.
- When Coola was rebuild as Metal Coola, why did he chose to go to New Namek instead Earth? Earth was the Planet that Goku and the others live on. I doubt that he knew that Goku and the others where going to New Namek.

Everything about the writing in Movie 6 is terrible. The more you watch the movie, the more that the plot holes start to show.

The only real "issue" here is Vegeta.

The movie never claims to be in the timeline of the show. That's just you assuming it has to be.
Since it's not a part of the main timeline, the powers not matching up precisely doesn't mean anything. And Piccolo fought Metal Cooler after he had powered up against Goku and Vegeta anyway.
Goku and Cooler were sensing each other.

[fadeddreams5]

Squeezing him into a plot that didn't need him to work sort of is. We don't see any connection between him and the star, or any build up to his appearance. The movie is clearly about the Geti Star. He just sort of... appeared and claimed he merged with it. So many other villains could have taken his place, like Dr. Wheelo, who would have actually made more sense.

None of it is "necessary". The movie wasn't ever about the Geti Star, that's the McGuffin. Dr. Wheel would've been a very random pull, he's a C-Grade villain.

Or it could have been Dr. Gero, who accessed the colony through some Ultron/Braniac-level nonsense.

At the very least Dr. Wheelo's death was a bit more ambiguous. Cooler was shown disintegrating into nothing after being blasted by a kamehameha into the sun.

Case in point, given the story, it didn't have to be Cooler. It didn't have to be any other past villain, in fact. They decided him to squeeze him in. If nobody reads the title of the flick before watching it, his appearance comes off as random.

And? KISS - Keep it simple, stupid. Great advice, hurts my feelings every time. Everyone can easily understand revenge as a motive, and Coola is continuing his expansionist ways. No reason to go any more complex than that.

My gripe isn't Cooler returning to exact revenge. It's how he's just thrown into the movie.

[ABED]

None of it HAS to be, but it's fun that it was. Obviously your mileage varies. However, I stand completely about what I wrote before that the movies don't follow series continuity so many of the errors you pointed out are a moo point. Part of the appeal of using a previous villain is you don't need to lay as much pipe.

Wheelo's death isn't any more ambiguous than Coola's.

If nobody reads the title of the flick before watching it, his appearance comes off as random.

1 - who doesn't read the title?
2 - not random.

[fadeddreams5]

Part of the appeal of using a previous villain is you don't need to lay as much pipe.

If I've seen that villain die before, I expect a bit more than "Ha! I'm back! Let's fight!" from the start of the movie to the end. There's simplicity and then there's over-simplicity. This entire film was just lazy, even by DBZ standards. The icing on the cake? It's boring too, and that comes entirely from the execution (and music choice in the dub...).

Building up to something is important because it creates a sense of anticipation. In the first Cooler movie, they start out by revealing the brother of Frieza, who saw him destroy Planet Vegeta. We know what's coming. The cast is having a nice time out before they're interrupted by minions. They are shocked at the sight of Cooler. Goku is down after protecting Gohan. We now anticipate the final battle, making the movie enjoyable to sit through if you're a fan of the series. Its sequel? Basically, remove everything, and begin the final battle between Goku and Cooler 8 minutes into the movie (6 minutes if we omit the opening). This movie is 45:52 minutes long. 21:32 minutes consist of the Cooler battle. The rest? About 4 minutes from the opening and ending, and 20 minutes of the cast fighting robots, along with one humorous scene with Yajirobe. There's no downtime, no build up to Cooler's appearance, no intrigue or exploration of New Namek before engaging in combat, and it all concludes with the villain getting blown up for being a complete idiot.

Wheelo's death isn't any more ambiguous than Coola's.

The spirit bomb blasted him deep into space. We saw no remains after his explosion. Also, he's a super genius who already managed to transfer his brain into a mechanical body once before. It works better.

Cooler was blasted into the sun. This was visibly seen, as well as him disintegrating.

That said, my personal preference would have been the Geti Star being its own thing; no past villains. That's just me.

[ABED]

If I've seen that villain die before, I expect a bit more than "Ha! I'm back! Let's fight!" from the start of the movie to the end. There's simplicity and then there's over-simplicity

But why? If they already know each other, there's little reason to not have them go at it from the jump. There would be animosity, so why draw it out? The fight against Coola was way more interesting and exciting than the one against Broly.

Building up to something is important because it creates a sense of anticipation.

The film is pretty short and there was already one prior film. Jumping straight to the point is refreshingly different from the typical formula. Your breakdown of the plots disregard the different contexts. In the first one, it's a moment of peace that was interrupted. In the sequel, they are going on a mission to save the Namekians, it's a completely different scenario that calls for action off the bat.

it all concludes with the villain getting blown up for being a complete idiot.

He was trying to drain the Super Saiyans of their power. Surprise, surprise, a villain's hubris is his undoing.

The spirit bomb blasted him deep into space. We saw no remains after his explosion. Also, he's a super genius who already managed to transfer his brain into a mechanical body once before. It works better.

Yes, there were no remains because he was vaporized

That said, my personal preference would have been the Geti Star being its own thing

You mean just some amorphous blob?

[ekrolo2]

The Gohan VS Cell fight is without a doubt one of the most boring in the franchise. A pointlessly prolonged one sided curb stomp that almost got interesting when Cell came back only to turn into a beam struggle.

[fadeddreams5]

But why? If they already know each other, there's little reason to not have them go at it from the jump. There would be animosity, so why draw it out? The fight against Coola was way more interesting and exciting than the one against Broly.

It's boring, imo. The other movie is another movie; this one is something new. I feel there should be some form of reintroduction and build up to the final battle. Just keeps it more entertaining.

The film is pretty short and there was already one prior film. Jumping straight to the point is refreshingly different from the typical formula. Your breakdown of the plots disregard the different contexts. In the first one, it's a moment of peace that was interrupted. In the sequel, they are going on a mission to save the Namekians, it's a completely different scenario that calls for action off the bat.

It didn't have to start and end with action (i.e. one dragged on fight sequence) just because Namek was in trouble. There doesn't necessarily have to be a moment of peace, but 30+ minutes out of 45 being punch, punch, punch, kick, kick, kick? Meh.

You mean just some amorphous blob?

I was thinking more like Unicron.

[jcogginsa]

i just assumed Cooler Teleported out of the sun with IT

[fadeddreams5]

i just assumed Cooler Teleported out of the sun with IT

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't be able to concentrate while he was burning alive. lol.