Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

^ Thank you!! 1% Beerus enraged SS2 Vegeta is reasonable in universe. 10% is pure fan fiction canonized....

[Overlord78]

Be glad u dont read comics then, because you will go mad due to the level of inconsistancy.

I take it how it is, they showed in bog how powerful ssg and beerus is and done. And in u6 arc, they tell us again, look beerus and champa are indeed that powerful BOG wasnt a mere fluke.

Plus showing the shockwaves again in ROf wouldnt make much sense since we saw them in BOG.

I do read comics and there is a lot of inconsistency but that's mainly due to comics having multiple writers most of the time. It doesn't help when some of these writers end up saying Odin is only planet level when we've seen much higher showings from him.

Exactly these are even different series across different eras.
I have NEVER in all my years of reading comics seen the SAME writer in the SAME series recont so many things so many times. This is not a level of inconsistency that is normal in any good manga or comic series.

You're not wrong. I've seen some writers retcon a lot in their series but I don't think I've seen anything on this level from just one writer alone.

[Overlord78]

^ Thank you!! 1% Beerus enraged SS2 Vegeta is reasonable in universe. 10% is pure fan fiction canonized....

We don't even know how much power Vegeta gained in that rage boost. Super describes it as a mutation so he could have been 2x the power of SSJ3 Goku or it could have been as high as 1000x.

[Lord Beerus]

^ Thank you!! 1% Beerus enraged SS2 Vegeta is reasonable in universe. 10% is pure fan fiction canonized....

Just like everything after the Freeza arc.

[Kuririn Fan]

^ Thank you!! 1% Beerus enraged SS2 Vegeta is reasonable in universe. 10% is pure fan fiction canonized....

Just like everything after the Saiyan arc.

Freeza, Cell and Boo are still amazing though, it's hard to deny it.

[buutenks]

Well, i dont understand whats the problem with vegeta gaining a massive rage boost. It was fun to watch and it gave a reason for him to be logically be able to pound on beerus for a bit, without depowering beerus.

So far i believe when vegeta became enraged, he surpassed all previous DBZ BPs, even vegettos.

[Lord Beerus]

^ Thank you!! 1% Beerus enraged SS2 Vegeta is reasonable in universe. 10% is pure fan fiction canonized....

Just like everything after the Saiyan arc.

Freeza, Cell and Boo are still amazing though, it's hard to deny it.

You know what the funny thing is, after I posted my comment, I took a minute to think about it and I decided to change my original comment from "Saiyan arc" to "Freeza arc", purely because despite its retcons, the Saiyan arc still remains the most entertaining portion of the story in all of Dragon Ball, so I decided to give it a pass.

[Overlord78]

Well, i dont understand whats the problem with vegeta gaining a massive rage boost. It was fun to watch and it gave a reason for him to be logically be able to pound on beerus for a bit, without depowering beerus.

So far i believe when vegeta became enraged, he surpassed all previous DBZ BPs, even vegettos.

It's just crazy that Vegeta can surpass everyone in DBZ with that rage boost, even Gohan's rage boosts don't even compare to the amount of power Vegeta gained. Why didn't he get a major power boost beforehand when he got enraged like with Cell?

[dbzfan7]

Well, i dont understand whats the problem with vegeta gaining a massive rage boost. It was fun to watch and it gave a reason for him to be logically be able to pound on beerus for a bit, without depowering beerus.

So far i believe when vegeta became enraged, he surpassed all previous DBZ BPs, even vegettos.

If you can't read that post, and not immediately see why at least some people would have a problem. I don't know what to say. Disagree with those people sure, but this post wreaks with everything that pisses some people off.

[Lord Beerus]

Well, i dont understand whats the problem with vegeta gaining a massive rage boost. It was fun to watch and it gave a reason for him to be logically be able to pound on beerus for a bit, without depowering beerus.

So far i believe when vegeta became enraged, he surpassed all previous DBZ BPs, even vegettos.

It's just crazy that Vegeta can surpass everyone in DBZ with that rage boost, even Gohan's rage boosts don't even compare to the amount of power Vegeta gained. Why didn't he get a major power boost beforehand when he got enraged like with Cell?

Because Toriyama wanted Gohan to kill Cell. Not Vegeta.

[TheMikado]

L

I do read comics and there is a lot of inconsistency but that's mainly due to comics having multiple writers most of the time. It doesn't help when some of these writers end up saying Odin is only planet level when we've seen much higher showings from him.

Exactly these are even different series across different eras.
I have NEVER in all my years of reading comics seen the SAME writer in the SAME series recont so many things so many times. This is not a level of inconsistency that is normal in any good manga or comic series.

You're not wrong. I've seen some writers retcon a lot in their series but I don't think I've seen anything on this level from just one writer alone.

To be honest I'm even fine with him retconning between different series, but I have to draw the line when the things we understood to be true in a previous arc or even a previous episode is suddenly thrown out the window. No one can make the argument that this is good writing. It's drains the story of all sense of tension as you're never sure if the protagonist is in actual danger or if they will just pull one of their long forgotten ability of some totally new rage boost/transformation and wreck everyone.

[TheMikado]

^ Thank you!! 1% Beerus enraged SS2 Vegeta is reasonable in universe. 10% is pure fan fiction canonized....

Just like everything after the Saiyan arc.

Freeza, Cell and Boo are still amazing though, it's hard to deny it.

The right way to do it is to provide an in universe explanation, the wrong way is to make up things as you go along with no explanation or foreshadowing whatsoever. Example Vegeta obtaining SSJ: He didn't this it was possible for him until Trunks appearance. Foreshadowing. Wrong way. SSB Vegeta. We are told the only way to obtain the SSG form is through that special ritual. In no way are we led to believe this is a form achievable through "special training" and yet up pops Vegeta, SSB no less. This is NOT good writing.

[buutenks]

Well, i dont understand whats the problem with vegeta gaining a massive rage boost. It was fun to watch and it gave a reason for him to be logically be able to pound on beerus for a bit, without depowering beerus.

So far i believe when vegeta became enraged, he surpassed all previous DBZ BPs, even vegettos.

It's just crazy that Vegeta can surpass everyone in DBZ with that rage boost, even Gohan's rage boosts don't even compare to the amount of power Vegeta gained. Why didn't he get a major power boost beforehand when he got enraged like with Cell?

EH, because it wasnt needed? Plot reasons.

Anyways i doubt ill understand so ye.

[LightBing]

Aren't almost all Super Saiyan transformations, rage boosts. Did Goku "steal" Gohan supposed trait by turning into one against Freeza? Why didn't Goku turned Super Saiyan after Tambourine killed Kuririn? I guess that makes the first time he did it pretty stupid, when he need it before, right?

Notwithstanding liking or not, the Vegeta moment. The arguments above don't have any logic behind it. Only if one forces it. Never was it said Gohan was the only that could power up due to rage, or whatever other stuff people are imagining.

It almost seems you guys just want some punches to throw. You guys can complain all you want about it, but when done in those terms it's hard to take people seriously and see the reasonable arguments.

[dbzfan7]

To be honest I'm even fine with him retconning between different series, but I have to draw the line when the things we understood to be true in a previous arc or even a previous episode is suddenly thrown out the window. No one can make the argument that this is good writing. It's drains the story of all sense of tension as you're never sure if the protagonist is in actual danger or if they will just pull one of their long forgotten ability of some totally new rage boost/transformation and wreck everyone.

Yes pulling out a random ass out of nowhere ability with no explanation at all is stupid. I guess Vegeta thought he was John Cena, and believed he could overcome the odds through bullshit. Too bad he isn't John Cena, so he still couldn't go the full mile . He no selled Beerus for a bit, but forgot to keep no selling, and hit that good ol AA. A lack of a reason, doesn't make a good reason.

[TheMikado]

Aren't almost all Super Saiyan transformations, rage boosts. Did Goku "steal" Gohan supposed trait by turning into one against Freeza? Why didn't Goku turned Super Saiyan after Tambourine killed Kuririn? I guess that makes the first time he did it pretty stupid, when he need it before, right?

Notwithstanding liking or not, the Vegeta moment. The arguments above don't have any logic behind it. Only if one forces it. Never was it said Gohan was the only that could power up due to rage, or whatever other stuff people are imagining.

It almost seems you guys just want some punches to throw. You guys can complain all you want about it, but when done in those terms it's hard to take people seriously and see the reasonable arguments.

You don't seem to understand the logic issue here. We have uber God SSB Kaioken multipled Goku after 3 years of RoSaT and additional Whis training coming up in a few episodes and Toriyama reveals that not only is it not surpassing Beerus but it's not even close.

Then we have preSSG SSJ2 Vegeta rage boosting to close to 10% of Beerus beyond even SSJ3.

On the power scale this means the combination of stacking God powers, SSJ and Kaioken would all yield a less than x20 boost against Gokus SSJ3 form while Vegeta gets like a x100 (10,000%) boost just because he gets angry.

[FTW395]

You don't seem to understand the logic issue here. We have uber God SSB Kaioken multipled Goku after 3 years of RoSaT and additional Whis training coming up in a few episodes and Toriyama reveals that not only is it not surpassing Beerus but it's not even close.

Then we have preSSG SSJ2 Vegeta rage boosting to close to 10% of Beerus beyond even SSJ3.

On the power scale this means the combination of stacking God powers, SSJ and Kaioken would all yield a less than x20 boost against Gokus SSJ3 form while Vegeta gets like a x100 (10,000%) boost just because he gets angry.

I'm pretty sure the 10% boost is going to be retconned too just like the 70% Goku Vs Beerus, because both of them wouldn't make much sense anymore in the current circumstances.

[TheMikado]

You don't seem to understand the logic issue here. We have uber God SSB Kaioken multipled Goku after 3 years of RoSaT and additional Whis training coming up in a few episodes and Toriyama reveals that not only is it not surpassing Beerus but it's not even close.

Then we have preSSG SSJ2 Vegeta rage boosting to close to 10% of Beerus beyond even SSJ3.

On the power scale this means the combination of stacking God powers, SSJ and Kaioken would all yield a less than x20 boost against Gokus SSJ3 form while Vegeta gets like a x100 (10,000%) boost just because he gets angry.

I'm pretty sure the 10% boost is going to be retconned too just like the 70% Goku Vs Beerus, because both of them wouldn't make much sense anymore in the current circumstances.

You do see the problem with just making a character however randomly strong and with whatever abilities they need just to make the plot move forward? It eliminates the sense of tension because you don't know if the protagonist is in real danger of he's suddenly a lot stronger for no reason and pulled a power boost out of his ass. The story isn't even consistent arc to arc let alone between episodes.

[dbzfan7]

I'm pretty sure the 10% boost is going to be retconned too just like the 70% Goku Vs Beerus, because both of them wouldn't make much sense anymore in the current circumstances.

Forgot about that one too. Yeah Kaio-Ken at minimum doubles attributes. So that would put Goku above Beerus. Though I doubt they'll put it that way in the show. Hopefully I can throw out 70% and especially 10% LOLRAGETALOL

[Lord Beerus]

To be honest I'm even fine with him retconning between different series, but I have to draw the line when the things we understood to be true in a previous arc or even a previous episode is suddenly thrown out the window. No one can make the argument that this is good writing. It's drains the story of all sense of tension as you're never sure if the protagonist is in actual danger or if they will just pull one of their long forgotten ability of some totally new rage boost/transformation and wreck everyone.

Yes pulling out a random ass out of nowhere ability with no explanation at all is stupid. I guess Vegeta thought he was John Cena, and believed he could overcome the odds through bullshit. Too bad he isn't John Cena, so he still couldn't go the full mile . He no selled Beerus for a bit, but forgot to keep no selling, and hit that good ol AA. A lack of a reason, doesn't make a good reason.

Hit knocks out Vegeta. Vegeta gets up at two.