Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

So, how strong do ya'll think android arc Piccolo is?

God: “Things turned out this way against the androids…Even for that ‘Trunks’ boy who came from the future and instantly obliterated Freeza and his father…and even for Vegeta, whose abilities are even greater than Trunks…”

This seems to imply that he's weaker than King Cold of all people.

[Kaboom]

Piccolo's power during the Androids arc is "wherever the hell you want him," really. He could be on-par with the Super Saiyans, or he could still be weaker than Freeza, or what have you. All it would really change is how strong Androids 19 and 20 are, since he could still wail on No.20 even after the 'droid was powered up through absorption. Toriyama left a lot of wiggle room in this regard, even inserting a line saying "did we get too strong, OR are you weaker than you were made out to be? Who knows?"

I personally put him up with the Super Saiyans to give the Androids some due credit as serious threats (ending up surpassing Freeza via absorption), but if something official came along saying otherwise, I could easily and gladly do a 180 on that.

[RandomGuy96]

Piccolo's power during the Androids arc is "wherever the hell you want him," really. He could be on-par with the Super Saiyans, or he could still be weaker than Freeza, or what have you. All it would really change is how strong Androids 19 and 20 are, since he could still wail on No.20 even after the 'droid was powered up through absorption. Toriyama left a lot of wiggle room in this regard, even inserting a line saying "did we get too strong, OR are you weaker than you were made out to be? Who knows?"

I personally put him up with the Super Saiyans to give the Androids some due credit as serious threats (ending up surpassing Freeza via absorption), but if something official came along saying otherwise, I could easily and gladly do a 180 on that.

What do you make of Kami's comment, then? If he was in the same league as the Super Saiyans, he should easily be able to dispatch suppressed Mecha Freeza and King Cold.

On Beers: I don't have a number for him, but given the way that film is structured, I think he should at least bit somewhat stronger than SS3 Vegetto.

[Kamiccolo9]

Piccolo's power during the Androids arc is "wherever the hell you want him," really. He could be on-par with the Super Saiyans, or he could still be weaker than Freeza, or what have you. All it would really change is how strong Androids 19 and 20 are, since he could still wail on No.20 even after the 'droid was powered up through absorption. Toriyama left a lot of wiggle room in this regard, even inserting a line saying "did we get too strong, OR are you weaker than you were made out to be? Who knows?"

I personally put him up with the Super Saiyans to give the Androids some due credit as serious threats (ending up surpassing Freeza via absorption), but if something official came along saying otherwise, I could easily and gladly do a 180 on that.

What do you make of Kami's comment, then? If he was in the same league as the Super Saiyans, he should easily be able to dispatch suppressed Mecha Freeza and King Cold.

On Beers: I don't have a number for him, but given the way that film is structured, I think he should at least bit somewhat stronger than SS3 Vegetto.

Wait, are you asking how strong Piccolo is before the timeskip?

[RandomGuy96]

No, after. Kami's comment implies that Android Arc Piccolo couldn't do what Mecha Arc Trunks did- that is, one-shot King Cold and a suppressed Mecha Freeza.

[Kaboom]

What do you make of Kami's comment, then? If he was in the same league as the Super Saiyans, he should easily be able to dispatch suppressed Mecha Freeza and King Cold.

I just think it's easiest at this point to use Super Saiyans as the measuring sticks. It's simple to say "these Androids can even defeat Super Saiyans," and adding "and also Piccolo who's about as strong as the Super Saiyans" is just kind of unnecessary.

Though heck, Kuririn even did the same thing talking about Piccolo himself. "He's so strong, and he's not even a Super Saiyan!"

[RandomGuy96]

What do you make of Kami's comment, then? If he was in the same league as the Super Saiyans, he should easily be able to dispatch suppressed Mecha Freeza and King Cold.

I just think it's easiest at this point to use Super Saiyans as the measuring sticks. It's simple to say "these Androids can even defeat Super Saiyans," and adding "and also Piccolo who's about as strong as the Super Saiyans" is just kind of unnecessary.

Though heck, Kuririn even did the same thing talking about Piccolo himself. "He's so strong, and he's not even a Super Saiyan!"

But the point is that he's using Freeza and Cold as measuring sticks. Like "this guy beat those two, so obviously you can't beat someone that he couldn't". Wouldn't that imply that Android Arc Piccolo is weaker than King Cold?

[Saiga]

Hmm, that's a good point. So if you were to accept he was weaker than Cold, where would you put Piccolo and 19/20?

[RandomGuy96]

Hmm, that's a good point. So if you were to accept he was weaker than Cold, where would you put Piccolo and 19/20?

If I were to think that, I suppose I'd place Piccolo about equal to King Cold and suppressed Freeza.

King Cold- 100,000,000
Mecha Freeza (~70%)- 98,000,000

Piccolo- 100,000,000
--Suppressed- 10,000,000

Android 19- 50,000,000
--+Goku's ki- 155,000,000
Android 20- 60,000,000
--+Piccolo's ki- 70,000,000
--+Vegeta's ki- 75,000,0000

That way, he'd still at least be considered a help to the Super Saiyans (I have Vegeta at only 220 million) while still being unable to dispatch Mecha Freeza and Cold like Trunks did. At the moment though, I just have Cold at 90 million.

[ZombieVito]

Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”

This is the only thing that hurts Kami's quote IMO.

[RandomGuy96]

Chapter: 265 (DBZ 71), P3.4-5
Context: the Great Elder reads Kuririn’s mind and learns of God and Piccolo.
Great Elder: “Hmf! He split in two, long ago…after evil entered into him! How foolish… He diminished by half the genius power with which he was gifted at birth! If he had come back together as one, he might not have had to die…”

This is the only thing that hurts Kami's quote IMO.

I find that quote quite odd. If that were the case, the original Nameless Namek would be weaker than freaking RADITZ.

But even with that, Piccolo being too weak to one-shot Cold is still possible. For example:

King Cold- 110,000,000

Piccolo- 135,000,000
--Kamiccolo- 270,000,000

I find it unlikely that Cold's quite that strong though. Freeza was the uncontested strongest, and if Cold was 110 million normally, he could beat Freeza if he really wanted to by just outlasting his 100% power. Freeza wouldn't hold himself in such high regard of someone rivaled him that closely, or could even beat him at all. I also don't think Cold should be that much stronger than non-buff Freeza. I like him at 90 million, or 100 million max, and with the latter level, Piccolo still wouldn't be capable of dispatching two of him in one hit each like Trunks did with suppressed Freeza and Cold.

Though things are of course changed up if you think Cold and Freeza have similar forms, so Cold would have a bulked up form as well. But still, I wouldn't like Cold being quite that strong.

[ZombieVito]

Yeah those numbers are fine but I would personally still keep Piccolo at 180,000,000.

I have Cold at 75,000,000 and Mecha at 80,000,000.

[Kakashi]

Yes. Nothing says which one is the strongest, so it's entirely opinion-based.

Birus is said to be the strongest being in Z and not GT

Not to mention it's illogical when GT Base Goku can stomp SSjin Vegetto

[RandomGuy96]

Yeah those numbers are fine but I would personally still keep Piccolo at 180,000,000.

I have Cold at 75,000,000 and Mecha at 80,000,000.

Why have Cold at that particular level? I think that seems a bit too low. Is it because you think that Freeza should be stronger than Cold even without bulking up?

And what level did you have Mecha Freeza suppressed to? 50%?

[Kakashi]

So, how strong do ya'll think android arc Piccolo is?

God: “Things turned out this way against the androids…Even for that ‘Trunks’ boy who came from the future and instantly obliterated Freeza and his father…and even for Vegeta, whose abilities are even greater than Trunks…”

This seems to imply that he's weaker than King Cold of all people.

Androids Saga Piccolo was confident going to fight foes who were supposed to be stronger than Mirai SSjin Trunks

[Kakashi]

What do you make of Kami's comment, then? If he was in the same league as the Super Saiyans, he should easily be able to dispatch suppressed Mecha Freeza and King Cold.

I just think it's easiest at this point to use Super Saiyans as the measuring sticks. It's simple to say "these Androids can even defeat Super Saiyans," and adding "and also Piccolo who's about as strong as the Super Saiyans" is just kind of unnecessary.

Though heck, Kuririn even did the same thing talking about Piccolo himself. "He's so strong, and he's not even a Super Saiyan!"

But the point is that he's using Freeza and Cold as measuring sticks. Like "this guy beat those two, so obviously you can't beat someone that he couldn't". Wouldn't that imply that Android Arc Piccolo is weaker than King Cold?

That means Frieza was the highest threat at that time

[Kaboom]

As Kakashi (sort of) said, it's more about who defeated the last big threat than the prior threat itself. "The people who beat Freeza are now helpless against these new enemies." Piccolo doesn't really have to factor into that.

[ZombieVito]

Yeah those numbers are fine but I would personally still keep Piccolo at 180,000,000.

I have Cold at 75,000,000 and Mecha at 80,000,000.

Why have Cold at that particular level? I think that seems a bit too low. Is it because you think that Freeza should be stronger than Cold even without bulking up?

And what level did you have Mecha Freeza suppressed to? 50%?

I have Mecha at 140,000,000, which is a bit over 50%. I just make them as weak as possible because of Gohan's comment.

[RandomGuy96]

Yeah those numbers are fine but I would personally still keep Piccolo at 180,000,000.

I have Cold at 75,000,000 and Mecha at 80,000,000.

Why have Cold at that particular level? I think that seems a bit too low. Is it because you think that Freeza should be stronger than Cold even without bulking up?

And what level did you have Mecha Freeza suppressed to? 50%?

I have Mecha at 140,000,000, which is a bit over 50%. I just make them as weak as possible because of Gohan's comment.

What about the Daizenshuu comment that Cold is only "somewhat" weaker than Freeza?

[ZombieVito]

Well that one doesn't work with Gohan's statement. Unless Cold is suppressed too.