Die-hard dub fans (why are you, if so?)

mystic trunks · Post by **mystic trunks** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:19 pm

We kind of have a chicken and egg thing going on here.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:22 pm

laserkid wrote:But good GOD people, liking a crappy version of something doesn't make someone a lesser fan. A tasteless boor, maybe, but lesser fan, no. Stop throwing un necessary divisiveness into an already divisive issue.

So telling a person the have crappy taste is somehow less insulting than calling them a lesser fan?

I've been avoiding commenting on their taste, and sticking with the accuracy of the dub to the Japanese script.

This is why haven't mentioned the voice acting or music for a while.

saiyangerl · Post by **saiyangerl** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 6:26 pm

penguintruth wrote:
laserkid wrote:But good GOD people, liking a crappy version of something doesn't make someone a lesser fan. A tasteless boor, maybe, but lesser fan, no. Stop throwing un necessary divisiveness into an already divisive issue.
So telling a person the have crappy taste is somehow less insulting than calling them a lesser fan?

I've been avoiding commenting on their taste, and sticking with the accuracy of the dub to the Japanese script.

This is why haven't mentioned the voice acting or music for a while.

So tasteless boor is supposed to be less insulting than lesser fan? It sounds like name calling just the same to me...

mystic trunks · Post by **mystic trunks** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:27 pm

One thing I have noticed in this thread:
Sub fans are really being rude. What happened to classy discourse? Why are you guys so grumpy?

Rory · Post by **Rory** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:32 pm

saiyangerl wrote:It sounds like name calling just the same to me...

Welcome to the anime community!

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:32 pm

VegettoEX wrote: You're still focusing on nothing other than surface-level observations and generalizations about the storyline.

As far as I can tell, no-one's arguing against that.

There is a reason I keep poking at it,scroll down.

What's actually being discussed is all of the minor nuances, minor dialogue changes, sometimes entire character personas... all of these smaller items that over time and in mass add up to a perceived larger "change" of the series into something that only resembles its original form.

C'mon, folks. If you're going to argue something, try to argue what's actually being discussed.

But most of the minor changes people complain about are from the early years of Dragonball, and have long since been replaced. Sure the whole "your father was a brilliant scientist" and "cat loves food" BS was there once upon a time ago but has now been replaced. So therefore, it is now irrelevant. Stop holding a grudge over spilled wine that was cleaned up years ago.

(Also, "shit stinks less" doesn't fly with me. I don't care if it's any better or worse than the Arabic dub or the Italian dub or the Cantonese dub or the Portuguese dub or what have you. What affects folks is what is presented in their own country; all others are curiosities.)

The reason I keep bringing up the earlier point and this is because they are intertwined. We have people up an arms over the Funimation dub saying its not Dragonball when in fact at the end of the day, after all is said and done, it [b]IS[/b] Dragonball. I don't care if Funimation made mistakes in the past because unlike anywhere else they listened to the fans and fixed the problem. That is something most companies wouldn't even bother to do, yet they did it and still people complain.

penguintruth wrote: Again, we're not really both fans of the same show.

Will you quit trolling?!

It is the same show minor changes or not.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:33 pm

mystic trunks wrote:One thing I have noticed in this thread:
Sub fans are really being rude. What happened to classy discourse? Why are you guys so grumpy?

This is our classy discourse.

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:Will you quit trolling?!

It is the same show minor changes or not.

"Trolling" implies the sole intention to anger others, regardless of the "troll"'s personal opinions. In other words, that I don't really believe in what I'm saying, I just say it to make you angry.

This is untrue in this case.

It also implies that there is no reasoning for my argument, which is also untrue, as I have provided it concisely throughout the thread.

Having a different opinion than yours is not "trolling", even if it angers you.

And again, I must say, some of the changes in the dub are not what I would consider "minor".

m121akuma · Post by **m121akuma** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:36 pm

penguintruth wrote:
SSJ2bardock wrote:
russ869 wrote: The fact that there's even an argument here is what's showing that we don't enjoy Dragonball for the same reasons.
Why does it matter what reasons we're enjoying it for? We're both enjoying it, so that makes us both fans of the show, right?
Again, we're not really both fans of the same show.

What about those who prefer Kai over Z? On one hand, it's the same script, the same characterization, and, for the most part, the same actors. On the other hand, it has visual edits, a completely different musical score, cropped footage, different performances, some new voices, etc. Are they lesser fans compared to fans of Z or no?

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:38 pm

m121akuma wrote:What about those who prefer Kai over Z? On one hand, it's the same script, the same characterization, and, for the most part, the same actors. On the other hand, it has visual edits, a completely different musical score, cropped footage, different performances, some new voices, etc. Are they lesser fans compared to fans of Z or no?

Kai should be considered a separate entity.

But, if you must go down that road, Kai was created by Toei, the studio that made the DBZ anime. Therefore, it is their discretion. Not Funimation's. Funimation is not in the business of making cartoons.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:39 pm

Then since you consider it a separate entity, why not just consider the dub something like that?

B · Post by B » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:41 pm

m121akuma wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
SSJ2bardock wrote: Why does it matter what reasons we're enjoying it for? We're both enjoying it, so that makes us both fans of the show, right?
Again, we're not really both fans of the same show.
What about those who prefer Kai over Z? On one hand, it's the same script, the same characterization, and, for the most part, the same actors. On the other hand, it has visual edits, a completely different musical score, cropped footage, different performances, some new voices, etc. Are they lesser fans compared to fans of Z or no?

That's different in the fact Kai is marketed as not being DBZ, but DBKai. FUNimation marketed their dub as DBZ, which only really contains the bare bones of what the show is.

(You're a lesser fan if you prefer Z to Kai, AFAIC.)

Also, there isn't a single sub fan being any more snotty than anyone else in this thread.

penguintruth · Post by **penguintruth** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:43 pm

bkev wrote:Then since you consider it a separate entity, why not just consider the dub something like that?

Well, I do. That's, uh, pretty much what I've been driving at.

The big problem is, Funimation is not a cartoon studio. They are an anime licensor. It's not their job to sell a "version" that differs from the original. If they want to go into the business of developing cartoons, they should start animating, instead of changing around ones that already exist.

m121akuma · Post by **m121akuma** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:45 pm

penguintruth wrote:
m121akuma wrote:What about those who prefer Kai over Z? On one hand, it's the same script, the same characterization, and, for the most part, the same actors. On the other hand, it has visual edits, a completely different musical score, cropped footage, different performances, some new voices, etc. Are they lesser fans compared to fans of Z or no?
Kai should be considered a separate entity.

As should dubbed Z, honestly. As you said, it's not the same show. Doesn't change the fact that fans of that are somehow lesser, apparently.

But, if you must go down that road, Kai was created by Toei, the studio that made the DBZ anime. Therefore, it is their discretion. Not Funimation's. Funimation is not in the business of making cartoons.

Perhaps, but regardless of who created Kai, the quality is still sub-par in comparison to the original. Just because the creator of a product is well respected and well known for the craft doesn't excuse them for making a poor product, nor does it automatically legitimize that product.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:49 pm

penguintruth wrote:
Booney wrote:To me this whole debate is just ridiculous.

It's like someone tells you you're not drinking coffee because you drink it with sugar in it.
That's not an apt parallel at all.

I mean, I guess if the sugar is piled in to the point where you have more sugar than coffee, and it's no longer coffee anymore but flavored sugar.

Otherwise, not really a great parallel.

That is an extreme exaggeration.

SparkyPantsMcGee · Post by **SparkyPantsMcGee** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:02 pm

penguintruth wrote:
mystic trunks wrote:One thing I have noticed in this thread:
Sub fans are really being rude. What happened to classy discourse? Why are you guys so grumpy?
This is our classy discourse.

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:Will you quit trolling?!

It is the same show minor changes or not.
"Trolling" implies the sole intention to anger others, regardless of the "troll"'s personal opinions. In other words, that I don't really believe in what I'm saying, I just say it to make you angry.

This is untrue in this case.

It also implies that there is no reasoning for my argument, which is also untrue, as I have provided it concisely throughout the thread.

Having a different opinion than yours is not "trolling", even if it angers you.

And again, I must say, some of the changes in the dub are not what I would consider "minor".

Wiki says:
"a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community..."

Going back to the Dragonball thread all you have done is act rude towards dub fans, insult them and then make this ridiculous claim that its not the same show. All while providing little to no insight on your claim each time. WE GET IT! you don't like the dub but you don't need to come in here every other post making claims that its not the same show.

Everyone got on MetalWarrior64's case for posting sarcasm and yet you are acting rude and causing more trouble than any dub fan on this site. I don't get the logic here Mike.

If you aren't going act civil and keep you're absurd and disrespectful opinions to yourself then I'm done. There is no point arguing with someone of your calibur. I need a long break from this site anyway maybe now would be a good time to take my leave.

I'll be back when this dub vs sub bullshit finally blows over.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:05 pm

I get the "it's a different show" argument. I just don't think that gives you the right to insult members by calling them lesser fans.

B · Post by B » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:10 pm

SparkyPantsMcGee wrote:Wiki says:
"a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant, or off-topic messages in an online community..."

Going back to the Dragonball thread all you have done is act rude towards dub fans, insult them and then make this ridiculous claim that its not the same show. All while providing little to no insight on your claim each time. WE GET IT! you don't like the dub but you don't need to come in here every other post making claims that its not the same show.

Everyone got on MetalWarrior64's case for posting sarcasm and yet you are acting rude and causing more trouble than any dub fan on this site. I don't get the logic here Mike.

If you aren't going act civil and keep you're absurd and disrespectful opinions to yourself then I'm done. There is no point arguing with someone of your calibur. I need a long break from this site anyway maybe now would be a good time to take my leave.

I'll be back when this dub vs sub bullshit finally blows over.

No. If that's what trolling is, than this website's existance is a troll, since the owner has clearly stated his thoughts on the dub, which could be seen as "controversial." A "troll," in terms of internet "trolling" refers to the act of purposely inciting disruption, more often than not on a set person or group of people. Learn what a troll is.

Also, he's stated why the dub is not the same show. Do you know what people have been replying with in response? "DOESN'T MATTER TO ME BRO" "VEGETA STILL HAS A WIDOW'S PEAK SAME SHOW MAN"

He isn't causing trouble, you are interpreting trouble. Learn how to interpret things. YOU'RE going to get the thread locked.

SSJ2bardock · Post by **SSJ2bardock** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:19 pm

B wrote: A "troll," in terms of internet "trolling" refers to the act of purposely inciting disruption, more often than not on a set person or group of people. Learn what a troll is.

Check, calling dub fans lesser fans
and
Check, directed at dub fans

Learn what a troll is? You just proved his point my friend.

linkdude20002001 · Post by **linkdude20002001** » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:19 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:What I'm looking for is justification on how we're somehow "lesser fans".

You're not lesser fans because you're a fan of the dub. It's just that you aren't a fan on Dragon Ball; you're a fan of FUNimation's version of Dragon Ball. But, being a fan of FUNimation's version of Dragon Ball makes you at least half a fan of Dragon Ball (unless you don't care about the visuals either). The script is half of what makes the show Dragon Ball. If you don't like it, then you're only a fan of half of Dragon Ball.

So... You're as much a fan as everyone else, but what you're a fan of is different then fans of the original Japanese version.

I don't think I worded what I was trying to say very well, though...

m121akuma wrote:What about those who prefer Kai over Z? On one hand, it's the same script, the same characterization, and, for the most part, the same actors. On the other hand, it has visual edits, a completely different musical score, cropped footage, different performances, some new voices, etc. Are they lesser fans compared to fans of Z or no?

At least DBK is still Dragon Ball, while FUNimation's version of DBZ changes the important things like script and characterization.

B · Post by B » Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:32 pm

SSJ2bardock wrote:
B wrote: A "troll," in terms of internet "trolling" refers to the act of purposely inciting disruption, more often than not on a set person or group of people. Learn what a troll is.
Check, calling dub fans lesser fans
and
Check, directed at dub fans

Learn what a troll is? You just proved his point my friend.

Learn what "purposely" means. If you think Penguintruth's goal is to piss you off, well, then... =/