Super Saiyan God <=> Vegetto?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yes, we do know.



Toriyama made this BTW.

[dbzfan7]

Yes, we do know.



Toriyama made this BTW.

Did Toriyama make that one. The one we see a few pages back is in the daizenshuu. Also the descriptions don't mention anything about rocks in the way. Nothing really mentions it in the story. Maybe your right and Uis is the only one who can teleport.

Heaven
Area: Afterlife
Special Characteristics: The world where dead good people reside.
Events: Goku practiced for the 25th Tenkaichi Budoukai here. (Daizenshuu 4, p.73/ Daizenshuu 7, p.36)
Anime: Those sorted out as good people among the dead gather here. It is about as wide as the universe, and its entire surface is a field of flowers.

Hell
Area: Afterlife
Special Characteristics: Akkuman’s birthplace. It is also the destination of wicked souls. It is situated at the bottom of the afterlife. (Daizenshuu 7, p.36)
Anime: While heading to Planet Kaio on the Serpent Road, Goku fell to Block 1, #3 of Hell. (Daizenshuu 3, p. 162). This is also where Cell, after being defeated by Gohan and dieing, went on a rampage along with Freeza and the Ginyu Special-Squad before being put down by Paikuhan. (Daizenshuu 5, p.140)

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Yes, he did make that.

In his Daizenshuu 4 interview, Toriyama mentions first drawing the map of the Dragon Ball cosmos featured in Daizenshuu 4 and later guide books for the anime staff.

For God’s temple, I gave it a comparatively mysterious feeling, but on the other hand I thought it’d be good to have the afterlife be realistic. So Enma-daiō and the oni all wore suits like salary-men. I think you can see this by looking at the world map in this book, but there’s a thing called the airport to Heaven. The background on that is that the people who go to Heaven all have to go by plane. This complete map was originally background information that I drew at the request of the anime people, but I took this opportunity to add the Kaiōshin World, which wasn’t included in the complete map before, to make it perfect. In truth, this complete world map is something I made after I finished drawing the story, to make everything consistent. (laughs)

This overview of the Dragon Ball cosmos is actually seen briefly in Dragon Ball Z episode 195, with the Dai Kaiō shown holding it on top of his outstretched index finger like a basketball, to symbolize his godly authority and whatnot. The airport to Heaven which Toriyama mentions is also seen in this episode, as well as the Dai Kaiō’s planet. Though these are part of Toriyama’s conception of the Dragon Ball afterlife, it is unknown if he had any hand in the designs used for these places in the anime filler.

He also contributed in the filler scenes in Saiyan arc:

the Dragon Ball Z Anime Special also noted that the episode where Goku accidentally falls down to Hell is also “full of Akira Toriyama-sensei‘s ideas!!” Unfortunately, it is not any more specific than that.

And when we actually see Hell is a rocky area, we don't need a confirmation in the description.

[dbzfan7]

Yes, he did make that.

In his Daizenshuu 4 interview, Toriyama mentions first drawing the map of the Dragon Ball cosmos featured in Daizenshuu 4 and later guide books for the anime staff.

For God’s temple, I gave it a comparatively mysterious feeling, but on the other hand I thought it’d be good to have the afterlife be realistic. So Enma-daiō and the oni all wore suits like salary-men. I think you can see this by looking at the world map in this book, but there’s a thing called the airport to Heaven. The background on that is that the people who go to Heaven all have to go by plane. This complete map was originally background information that I drew at the request of the anime people, but I took this opportunity to add the Kaiōshin World, which wasn’t included in the complete map before, to make it perfect. In truth, this complete world map is something I made after I finished drawing the story, to make everything consistent. (laughs)

This overview of the Dragon Ball cosmos is actually seen briefly in Dragon Ball Z episode 195, with the Dai Kaiō shown holding it on top of his outstretched index finger like a basketball, to symbolize his godly authority and whatnot. The airport to Heaven which Toriyama mentions is also seen in this episode, as well as the Dai Kaiō’s planet. Though these are part of Toriyama’s conception of the Dragon Ball afterlife, it is unknown if he had any hand in the designs used for these places in the anime filler.

He also contributed in the filler scenes in Saiyan arc:

the Dragon Ball Z Anime Special also noted that the episode where Goku accidentally falls down to Hell is also “full of Akira Toriyama-sensei‘s ideas!!” Unfortunately, it is not any more specific than that.

And when we actually see Hell is a rocky area, we don't need a confirmation in the description.

All that is shown is rocky areas from what hell looks like. We don't know if that's what it looks like when you fly towards the after life (or even if you can fly there). I'm only arguing we don't know. Perhaps Uis can teleport as Birus never seems to show off that skill. God can also somehow move between the afterlife and earth yet can't teleport Goku to the battlefield.

We haven't seen the movie so we really don't know.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Chouzenshuu 4: Using his staff, it takes Whis about 26 minutes to get from Beers' palace to Kaio's, and 3 minutes from Kaio's to Earth.

From the clips I've seen, Birus and Whis actually arrive and leave in like a tube of light; so it kinda seems he's not teleporting, at least not in the same vein as Goku's Shunkan-ido.

[TheGmGoken]

Bills and Whis bid everyone farewell, and depart into space.

I think they teleported but this happen in the movie for sure. Now this is from Earth to his house. So who knows. But that could hint he DIDN'T teleport but just flew. But not the normal flying. I mixture of teleporting and flying. Not exactly teleporting but more leaning to the flying side. The blue showed them going places BUT if it was teleporting it would't have taken as long. Telling by Beers and Whis' power. Since Goku did it with ease in the Cell games. So like it's super fast flying that seems like teleportation. Maybe an advance flying technique can be a good name for it?

[dbzfan7]

Chouzenshuu 4: Using his staff, it takes Whis about 26 minutes to get from Beers' palace to Kaio's, and 3 minutes from Kaio's to Earth.

From the clips I've seen, Birus and Whis actually arrive and leave in like a tube of light; so it kinda seems he's not teleporting, at least not in the same vein as Goku's Shunkan-ido.

Exactly. How does teleporting take 26 minutes and then 3 minutes to get to earth? Though how does his staff work.

[TheGmGoken]

Chouzenshuu 4: Using his staff, it takes Whis about 26 minutes to get from Beers' palace to Kaio's, and 3 minutes from Kaio's to Earth.

From the clips I've seen, Birus and Whis actually arrive and leave in like a tube of light; so it kinda seems he's not teleporting, at least not in the same vein as Goku's Shunkan-ido.

Exactly. How does teleporting take 26 minutes and then 3 minutes to get to earth? Though how does his staff work.

Read my above comment please.

[Zephyr]

I treat SSj God and SSj Vegetto as being on par with each other.

Beers is said to be the strongest in the history of Z, thus he would be above SSj Vegetto. Beers easily defeats SSj God, thus he would be above SSj God.

So the only solid concrete facts we have are that Beers is stronger than both of them. Now, in the film Goku mentions that he didn't think SSJ God's realm of power was possible to be reached. This, I feel is a malleable statement. You could interpret that to either mean that SSj God is leagues above Vegetto, or you could interpret it as Goku commenting on reaching such a level of power without fusing (which would make sense if it's too much to accept that a powerup/transformation can match the gag-tier powers of fusion characters).

So it could go either way, but for the sake of simplicity, I treat them as relative equals for all intents and purposes.

[TheGmGoken]

I treat SSj God and SSj Vegetto as being on par with each other.

Beers is said to be the strongest in the history of Z, thus he would be above SSj Vegetto. Beers easily defeats SSj God, thus he would be above SSj God.

So the only solid concrete facts we have are that Beers is stronger than both of them. Now, in the film Goku mentions that he didn't think SSJ God's realm of power was possible to be reached. This, I feel is a malleable statement. You could interpret that to either mean that SSj God is leagues above Vegetto, or you could interpret it as Goku commenting on reaching such a level of power without fusing (which would make sense if it's too much to accept that a powerup/transformation can match the gag-tier powers of fusion characters).

So it could go either way, but for the sake of simplicity, I treat them as relative equals for all intents and purposes.

I took that Goku quote as the same thing as when character say " I didn't think this power was possible!?" "There no way in hell anyone could have that much power". I also took it as Goku thinking under any NORMAL circumstance that power like SSG could exist as you said Vegito is a fusion.

[dbzfan7]

Read my above comment please.

Very insightful. So the staff allows them to travel between the after life and earth, but does the staff do all the work in taking them there or not is my question.

I guess me and DBZ are both wrong.

[TheGmGoken]

Read my above comment please.

Very insightful. So the staff allows them to travel between the after life and earth, but does the staff do all the work in taking them there or not is my question.

I guess me and DBZ are both wrong.

Who knows. This is DBz we're talking about. The show/manga doesn't exactly come out to you and give you answers. Most of it is just inferring and possible conclusions

[Draken]

So it seems that Whis's staff has godmode hax and allows them to travel through anything

[Hugo Boss]

Honestly, I think the character Super Saiyan God should be above every form of Vegetto, even Super Saiyan 3. It would be unusual to create a villain that is weaker than the previous most powerful protagonist and create a hero that cannot standing up to him and show clear improvements. The way the transformation was introduced was very unlikely for DBZ style, unless you consider Toei already used that Saiyan Group power-up in DBGT while strenghting the Super Saiyan 4. The point difference is that God mode is not just getting the power of six Saiyans, but a genki-fusion-like transformation that includes 6 instead of 2 Saiyans. It's like Goku has become an omnipotent Saiyan that represents the entire race by his good nature. The Potara probably lost the position of best method to get extreme power.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku is in no way Omnipotent upon going SSJ God.

[Draken]

Had he been omnipotent he coulda blinked Beers and Whis away. But I agree with your statement that SSG and Beers are above SSJ3 Vegetto.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Honestly, I think the character Super Saiyan God should be above every form of Vegetto, even Super Saiyan 3.

It is implied that SSG Goku is stronger than SS3 Vegetto in the movie.

[Hugo Boss]

Goku is in no way Omnipotent upon going SSJ God.

Sorry, I meant among the Saiyans. That's what God means anyway.

Had he been omnipotent he coulda blinked Beers and Whis away.

Same here. Comparing a god to another one is like comparing two fighters. They have close strenght or a substancial difference, but not different realms of power.

It is implied that SSG Goku is stronger than SS3 Vegetto in the movie.

Well, I didn't see the movie yet, just quickly read the synopsis.

Btw, where can I get that imply?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It is implied that SSG Goku is stronger than SS3 Vegetto in the movie.

Well, I didn't see the movie yet, just quickly read the synopsis.

Btw, where can I get that imply?

Check this thread.

First of all, Goku should have an estimation of SS3 Vegetto. Goku & Vegeta are shown to have the memories of Vegetto, so hey should know how strong Super Vegetto is, and since Goku is experienced with Super Saiyan 3, he should be able to guess how strong Vegetto would be if he had turned into a Super Saiyan 3.
Now, when Goku turned into a Super Saiyan God, he said that he didn't even imagine there was such a realm of power. And since he should be able to know SS3 Vegetto's power, but not even imagine SSG's power, then Super Saiyan God Goku should be on a different level than SS3 Vegetto.

[Zephyr]

First of all, Goku should have an estimation of SS3 Vegetto. Goku & Vegeta are shown to have the memories of Vegetto, so hey should know how strong Super Vegetto is, and since Goku is experienced with Super Saiyan 3, he should be able to guess how strong Vegetto would be if he had turned into a Super Saiyan 3.

He still has no memories of being SSj3 Vegetto though. It's not like Goku estimated Vegetto's exact BP, figured out the exact multiplier for the form, and then calculated it as such. Then later estimating the numerical value of his own power as SSj God and comparing it as such. I doubt Goku could even fathom that kind of math. Sure, he has a general gist of how crazy the SSj3 powerup in general is, but since we're talking about things we can't see or know, how do we know that Vegetto's SSj3 wouldn't also qualify as something Goku wouldn't imagine was possible? Vegetto himself was surprised at his own power, and we've seen how ridiculously rule-breaking Vegetto is in the first place when it comes to power.

There's also the interpretation that Goku meant gaining power of that level as one person, without fusing. It's not a necessary interpretation, sure, but it's not really explicitly contradicted by anything.