SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ3 Goku By How Much?

[Axiom]

Goku transforms into a Ssj3 right in front of Buutenks. Evil Buu knows how strong Ssj3 Goku is.

And what does a more powerful Buu have to do with SSJ3 Goku? Are you saying inside the body that Buu know's that Goku can't beat him? Well no shit - he points out that they are the size of fleas and their attacks barely even sting. Even at SSJ3, Goku wouldn't be able to manage anything - no one would.

[Kamiccolo9]

Goku transforms into a Ssj3 right in front of Buutenks. Evil Buu knows how strong Ssj3 Goku is.

And what does a more powerful Buu have to do with SSJ3 Goku? Are you saying inside the body that Buu know's that Goku can't beat him? Well no shit - he points out that they are the size of fleas and their attacks barely even sting. Even at SSJ3, Goku wouldn't be able to manage anything - no one would.

Goku is suggesting fusion before he realizes he's weaker in Buu's body.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I'm sorry but are you even listening to yourself Axiom?

[dbzfan7]

Here's Goku Shitting his pants as Bootenks comes to curbstomp him


I doubt Goku is going to hold back power on an opponent vastly stronger than him.

[Axiom]

Here's Goku Shitting his pants as Bootenks comes to curbstomp him


I doubt Goku is going to hold back power on an opponent vastly stronger than him.

We already established that - No way Goku was going to beat him, Gohan ran away and hid, at least Goku stood his ground.

Vegetto
Buu-Gohan
Buu-Gotenks
Buff-Buu/Kid Buu
Goku
Gohan
Gotenks
SuperBuu
FatBuu
Vegeta

[Axiom]

Goku transforms into a Ssj3 right in front of Buutenks. Evil Buu knows how strong Ssj3 Goku is.

And what does a more powerful Buu have to do with SSJ3 Goku? Are you saying inside the body that Buu know's that Goku can't beat him? Well no shit - he points out that they are the size of fleas and their attacks barely even sting. Even at SSJ3, Goku wouldn't be able to manage anything - no one would.

Goku is suggesting fusion before he realizes he's weaker in Buu's body.

Why would you assume that Goku doesn't realize he's weaker? I'm sure he knows to some extent, I just don't think he realizes how much smaller/weaker he is until Buu tells him.

[dbzfan7]

Here's Goku Shitting his pants as Bootenks comes to curbstomp him


I doubt Goku is going to hold back power on an opponent vastly stronger than him.

We already established that - No way Goku was going to beat him, Gohan ran away and hid, at least Goku stood his ground.

Vegetto
Buu-Gohan
Buu-Gotenks
Buff-Buu/Kid Buu
Goku
Gohan
Gotenks
SuperBuu
FatBuu
Vegeta

That establishes that Boo can now get a full reading on Goku's power. Which he still laughs off when he's in base. Goku even says that that they were to weaken Boo all the way to the very first one of all which is pointed out as Fat Boo. This is because he is weak in comparison to Super Boo.

Why would you assume that Goku doesn't realize he's weaker? I'm sure he knows to some extent, I just don't think he realizes how much smaller/weaker he is until Buu tells him.

Nothing is even remotely suggested he knows anything of the sort. He only talks about how that they have no chance now that they ain't fused no more.

[Draken]

Vegetto
Buu-Gohan
Buu-Gotenks
Buff-Buu/Kid Buu
Goku
Gohan
Gotenks
SuperBuu
FatBuu
Vegeta

First off by your own lists this isn't possible as Gohan > Gotenks = Goku.

Second off Gohan's power was brought BEYOND his maximum potential.
Goku was brought TO his maximum potential with SSJ3.

Uh...

[dbzfan7]

Vegetto
Buu-Gohan
Buu-Gotenks
Buff-Buu/Kid Buu
Goku
Gohan
Gotenks
SuperBuu
FatBuu
Vegeta

First off by your own lists this isn't possible as Gohan > Gotenks = Goku.

Second off Gohan's power was brought BEYOND his maximum potential.
Goku was brought TO his maximum potential with SSJ3.

Uh...

Gohan has been stated to have far more potential than Goku. I find it funny how after having his full potential unlocked and brought way beyond it's limits he is some how still weaker than Goku's potential fully realized in SSJ3

[Axiom]

Yeah, why not? No one was suggesting Gohan save the day, or giving him back his body to come in fight.

[dbzfan7]

Yeah, why not? No one was suggesting Gohan save the day, or giving him back his body to come in fight.

For the Genki-Dama ending. Hell Goku himself says Gohan can beat Boocollo and not himself.

Let me break this down. Gohan since the very beginning and in every guide book has been described as having wondrous potential surpassing Goku. SSJ3 is described as a form that brings out hidden powers to it's limit. Gohan not only had the potential brought out that was described in every guidebook as greater than Goku's, but had it taken way way beyond it's limits. So how how does the power described as greater than Goku and taken far stronger than it actually was capable of before weaker than Goku's potential taken to the max.

Also Gohan's Battle of Gods bio states he has power surpassing pure Saiyans.

[Draken]

Yeah, why not? No one was suggesting Gohan save the day, or giving him back his body to come in fight.

Goku did. Vegeta's just like "hayell naw man npnp the spirit bomb got dis we use da earth powah they save themselves yo!"

[dbzfan7]

Yeah, why not? No one was suggesting Gohan save the day, or giving him back his body to come in fight.

Goku did. Vegeta's just like "hayell naw man npnp the spirit bomb got dis we use da earth powah they save themselves yo!"

That was after Goku was all like

Goku: We did it, we managed to make the Boo that we outright said we stood no chance against actually even stronger. We failed in returning Boo to the very first Fat one, but a stronger Boo should be no problem right. So for no reason I shall be happy. But don't worry I got this. I can totally defeat a boo stronger than the one I already said we stood no chance against.

and this

Elder Kaioshin: “Wh-what are you talking about…?! Above their limits! Above! There de~~efinitely isn’t anyone else that incredible! [ ] Hey, you over there, you were the one who pulled the sword out, right? Come over here a little. If someone could pull that sword out and swing it around, then once I get through with them they’ll de~~efinitely be able to become the best in the universe.”

[Kamiccolo9]

I feel like this is the perfect topic for my shiny new Facepalming Piccolo avatar

Honestly, this shouldn't even be a debate.
Goku's comments on...
Super Buu: "We can't beat him! We have to permanently fuse!"
Buff Buu: "If this doesn't stop, he'll be even stronger than before!"
Pure Buu: "Hot Damn! We got this!"

Credit goes to some guy on this site who posted something like that a long time ago.

[dbzfan7]

I feel like this is the perfect topic for my shiny new Facepalming Piccolo avatar

Honestly, this shouldn't even be a debate.
Goku's comments on...
Super Buu: "We can't beat him! We have to permanently fuse!"
Buff Buu: "If this doesn't stop, he'll be even stronger than before!"
Pure Buu: "Hot Damn! We got this!"

New avatar perfectly sums up this topic. When it's 5-1 I can guarantee the 5 are in the right while the one is just confused and misinformed.

Also I now believe Kid Boo is above SSJ3 Goku as Goku even said he and Vegeta can't deflect Kid Boo's attack combined. Goku has shown he can quickly Go SSJ3 and Vegeta can quickly go SSJ2.

[RandomGuy96]

...anyway, on the thread topic, I'm under the impression that Kaboom, Saiga, and possibly a few other folks follow the Daizenshuu line that SS Gotenks (pre) is weaker than SS2 Majin Vegeta. I'd like to hear their input on how that line isn't a contradiction when paired with what Piccolo and Goku say, if anyone who believes that happens to be reading this thread.

I, personally, have settled on just giving Gotenks a different SS3 multiplier (x200 instead of x400) for a plethora of reasons; he skipped SS2, he's a fusion, SS3 is supposed to draw out all hidden power, the SEG pictured Goku (though if someone can tell me what the text meant that'd be great), he was implied to get weird multipliers in the first place, et cetera, and, most of all, it just makes things easier. It's a little weaselly but I like it because I don't have to come up with some reason why South Kaioshin made Buu so insanely strong when he wasn't even implied to do so and every absorption we saw was explicitly additive. Also because it lets me integrate my theory on why Evil Buu + Good Buu = Super Buu but Super Buu - Good Buu =/= Evil Buu. So I only have Gotenks a little over twice as strong as Goku at the moment.

[Draken]

I feel if anything Gotenks would have a higher multiplier for SSJ3 compared to Goku what with the half-blood potential and all.

[RandomGuy96]

SS3 draws the hidden power (not potential, IIRC) of saiyan to the limit. SS3 Gohan at four years old wouldn't automatically be stronger than SS3 Goku just on the grounds of being a hybrid, because his hidden power would be far inferior, because his power overall is far inferior.

[SaiyanZ]

I've always maintained that Goku was so hellbent on fusing against Evil Boo and his forms because of what he told Piccolo at Kami's Lookout, with the whole energy drain thing as a SSJ3. Fusion is a surefire way to win, whereas against Fat Boo he was already tired. I've always considered that the reason he didn't want to fight base Evil Boo, but I know people just think Goku is flat out weaker.

[RandomGuy96]

Mysteriously, he decided that this disadvantage would no longer be a problem the moment Buu got weaker. Also mysteriously, he specifically said that he was no match for Super Buu's strength, instead of saying "I'm more than a match for his strength, but...". Even more mysteriously, Super Buu sensed his SS3 powers and still considered him a complete non-threat. Finally and probably most mysteriously, he was planning on weakening Super Buu by ripping out his absorptions to revert him to Fat Buu, even though that wouldn't fix his supposed energy drain problem.