Anybody already stopped watching Super?

[Miracles]

Super to me is just getting started with the Champa arc. I think watching it now is a good time to jump in.

Bingo! Since the last two arcs of Super were rehashes of the movies. This arc is anime original now.

[omaro34]

Now that the first 2 re-telling arcs are over I'm sure people are watching the series more closely now.

[saiyanvegetable]

unfortunately it's one of the worst animes of the year in almost every aspect - animation, storytelling, fight choreography, storyboarding art direction, script, characterization, etc.. It's really sad to see, especially being such a fan of the series. What's sadder though is people using the "dbzee" defense - as if Dbz was a huge pile of shit to begin with. it wasn't beethoven, but people pretend like it was some obscenely awful anime that didn't become a global phenomenon. Super has been insultingly exploitative, hollow, and absolutely terrible but people here will have you think that if you don't like Super it's because Broly isn't in the series going super saiyan 3. the "promo" manga feels much more true to the source material even if i don't agree with the direction the manga went with.

[Majin Vegeta Fan]

unfortunately it's one of the worst animes of the year in almost every aspect - animation, storytelling, fight choreography, storyboarding art direction, script, characterization, etc.. It's really sad to see, especially being such a fan of the series. What's sadder though is people using the "dbzee" defense - as if Dbz was a huge pile of shit to begin with. it wasn't beethoven, but people pretend like it was some obscenely awful anime that didn't become a global phenomenon. Super has been insultingly exploitative, hollow, and absolutely terrible but people here will have you think that if you don't like Super it's because Broly isn't in the series going super saiyan 3. the "promo" manga feels much more true to the source material even if i don't agree with the direction the manga went with.

That's exactly how i feel about super...

[Chillekasper]

I was a Gohan fan. But how he is in Super I really want to stop with watching this serie.

[Khin]

I was a Gohan fan. But how he is in Super I really want to stop with watching this serie.

Nothing really wrong with Gohan in Super unless you only like his ''badass'' SSj2 Cell Games self and Ultimate state.

[sintzu]

Nothing really wrong with Gohan in Super unless you only like his ''badass'' SSj2 Cell Games self and Ultimate state.

Him not being his Ssj2/ultimate self is probably the biggest wrong this show has done cause that's what his character was building up to ever since he was introduced so Toriyama throwing that out in favor of what we're getting now makes 0 sense and is very bad writing on his part.

[Kuririn Fan]

Nothing really wrong with Gohan in Super unless you only like his ''badass'' SSj2 Cell Games self and Ultimate state.

Him not being his Ssj2/ultimate self is probably the biggest wrong this show has done cause that's what his character was building up to ever since he was introduced so Toriyama throwing that out in favor of what we're getting now makes 0 sense and is very bad writing on his part.

Gohan was always problematic. How can a guy that doesnt like to fight be the main character in a show thats all about fighting?

[Khin]

Him not being his Ssj2/ultimate self is probably the biggest wrong this show has done cause that's what his character was building up to ever since he was introduced so Toriyama throwing that out in favor of what we're getting now makes 0 sense and is very bad writing on his part.

The point of Gohan is that he was supposed to be a kid with insane potential but isn't interested in fighting like Goku.Him not training for years makes sense,he realized in Super that he needs to become stronger in order to protect his loved ones that's why he asked Piccolo to retrain him.That's a good developement on his part.

[sintzu]

Him not training for years makes sense,he realized in Super that he needs to become stronger in order to protect his loved ones.That's a good developement on his part.

Didn't he go through this exact thing during the Buu arc ? him letting himself get weak AGAIN shows that he didn't learn anything from the Buu arc which is character regression, not development.

How can a guy that doesnt like to fight be the main character in a show that's all about fighting?

He doesn't have to be the main character, just someone who can fight when he has to.

In the Buu arc Toriyama found a way to make Goku & Vegeta the 2 main characters at the end without taking anything away from Gohan or making him look bad.

[Khin]

Didn't he go through this exact thing during the Buu arc ? him letting himself get weak AGAIN shows that he didn't learn anything from the Buu arc which is character regression, not development.

Boo Arc is the first arc where Gohan didn't train for a long time.And he didn't see anyone die right in his face in that arc.In Super,Gohan literally saw Piccolo died right in front of him when he could've prevent that if he trained.That's when he realized how important getting stronger is.

[sintzu]

He didn't see anyone die right in his face in that arc.

Vegeta died.
His mother was killed as an egg.
Krillin,Videl and his other friends were turned into Chocolate and were eaten alive.

Maybe he didn't see them die but a lot more people died against Buu thanks to his lack of training then against Freeza.

[Khin]

Vegeta died.
His mother was killed as an egg.
Krillin,Videl and his other friends were turned into Chocolate and were eaten alive.

Maybe he didn't see them die but a lot more people died against Buu thanks to his lack of training then against Freeza.

There's a big difference in seeing someone dying right in front of you than just hearing it from someone.And at least in that arc,he was able to do something for it thanks to Rou Kaioshin while in ROF Arc,he can do nothing but call his father and Vegeta for help against Freeza.

[irreality]

Him not training for years makes sense,he realized in Super that he needs to become stronger in order to protect his loved ones.That's a good developement on his part.

Didn't he go through this exact thing during the Buu arc ? him letting himself get weak AGAIN shows that he didn't learn anything from the Buu arc which is character regression, not development.

I'd argue he didn't get weak "again" -- he didn't suddenly start training hardcore in the Buu arc or have any character moments of that sort. What happened in the Buu arc: He didn't train for 7 years, he trained halfheartedly for like a week for a fun tournament, noticed he got much weaker -- still SSJ2 but barely. He then went to heaven where a wizard gave him a power up. He ended up not really using that power for anything and dying. At no point did he have a realization that he should have been training, he didn't do any serious training, and ultimately, his strength hindered rather than helped the situation: his power first attracted the Majins and the Kais, he insisted on taking a turn against Dabura when he was not well matched, and was a target for absorption by Super Buu.

At this point, Gohan hasn't learned that he should train, or leave his "scholarly" lifestyle to be a good fighter. Other people are better fighters even if he is technically stronger because of a "powerup" given to him by a God. So why would he suddenly start training? That bit of character development *never happened* in the Buu arc.

So he doesn't train for x years until the beginning of Super. At that point, he still has access to his mystical power up, but it is clearly not very strong anymore while using it. Vegeta angry!SSJ2 seems miles stronger, even Buu seems stronger. And the conclusion there is that there are forces beyond his control that he is not equipped to face, probably should keep concentrating on family and work.

Then a year +/- later, Freeza comes along. Gohan has finally reached the tipping point where his mystical powerup isn't working. He hasn't turned SSJ in *years*, and his base physical condition isn't great. He is still *way* stronger than a lot of people, but he is no longer a good buffer and first line of defense if Goku and Vegeta can't be there in 30 minutes. And with things happening on an universal scale now, with him having a family that could directly be targeted, maybe he *should* be more than baseline strong to protect them. And that is when the realization finally hits: he needs to train some. He can't just coast on natural talent to always tide him over. He doesn't need to be the best and save the world, but he should at least be strong enough to make sure his friends don't die before reinforcements show up.

And that is where we are in his development at this point. This is not a character regression. Power levels and transformations are not character development. Gohan hasn't trained since the *Cell arc.* At no point in the Buu arc did he get serious about wanting to train again. Yes, he got strong then weak again, but that was not because of a change in his disposition.

[saiyanvegetable]

Him not training for years makes sense,he realized in Super that he needs to become stronger in order to protect his loved ones.That's a good developement on his part.

Didn't he go through this exact thing during the Buu arc ? him letting himself get weak AGAIN shows that he didn't learn anything from the Buu arc which is character regression, not development.

I'd argue he didn't get weak "again" -- he didn't suddenly start training hardcore in the Buu arc or have any character moments of that sort. What happened in the Buu arc: He didn't train for 7 years, he trained halfheartedly for like a week for a fun tournament, noticed he got much weaker -- still SSJ2 but barely. He then went to heaven where a wizard gave him a power up. He ended up not really using that power for anything and dying. At no point did he have a realization that he should have been training, he didn't do any serious training, and ultimately, his strength hindered rather than helped the situation: his power first attracted the Majins and the Kais, he insisted on taking a turn against Dabura when he was not well matched, and was a target for absorption by Super Buu.

At this point, Gohan hasn't learned that he should train, or leave his "scholarly" lifestyle to be a good fighter. Other people are better fighters even if he is technically stronger because of a "powerup" given to him by a God. So why would he suddenly start training? That bit of character development *never happened* in the Buu arc.

So he doesn't train for x years until the beginning of Super. At that point, he still has access to his mystical power up, but it is clearly not very strong anymore while using it. Vegeta angry!SSJ2 seems miles stronger, even Buu seems stronger. And the conclusion there is that there are forces beyond his control that he is not equipped to face, probably should keep concentrating on family and work.

Then a year +/- later, Freeza comes along. Gohan has finally reached the tipping point where his mystical powerup isn't working. He hasn't turned SSJ in *years*, and his base physical condition isn't great. He is still *way* stronger than a lot of people, but he is no longer a good buffer and first line of defense if Goku and Vegeta can't be there in 30 minutes. And with things happening on an universal scale now, with him having a family that could directly be targeted, maybe he *should* be more than baseline strong to protect them. And that is when the realization finally hits: he needs to train some. He can't just coast on natural talent to always tide him over. He doesn't need to be the best and save the world, but he should at least be strong enough to make sure his friends don't die before reinforcements show up.

And that is where we are in his development at this point. This is not a character regression. Power levels and transformations are not character development. Gohan hasn't trained since the *Cell arc.* At no point in the Buu arc did he get serious about wanting to train again. Yes, he got strong then weak again, but that was not because of a change in his disposition.

I think his character has absolutely regressed. Gohan has always been helpless to protect his friends from being slaughtered right in front of his eyes from Radtiz, to Nappa, Frieza, Cell, and then Buu. You can make an argument that he was just a child pre-cell but after going ssj2 and becoming strong enough to defeat Cell he fucks it up and loses his father. Right in front of his eyes. Gohan stops training there (high school life takes over) and what happens after a time of peace? Another threat that wiped out the entire fucking planet. If there was any shred of character development to be had (along with the buildup of Gohan's immense power) his failure to protect the earth should have had some kind of effect on him. Not only that but his father bailed him out again for like the fourth time. I'd assume that gets to anybody after a certain point, especially when you're in situations where you feel helpless to protect the people you love most and you know its your own fault.

Super's Gohan is poorly written trash. I could understand the inner struggle of not wanting to follow in his father's footsteps as unofficial protector of earth on one hand but on the other being one of the only few able to stop his friends and family from dying. Instead of compelling moments like this Super gives us some Yaoi garbage and people here eat it up and call it "amazing character interactions" or "wow these characters have really grown you're just mad its not DBZEE" . It's bullshit. Even Gohan being haunted by his own failures and making sure it'll never happen again is a much more compelling choice. That would have been interesting character development and much more true to Gohan.

[julianix]

Who the fuck cares how much or for what reasons someone enjoys a series, or portions of it, if they want to discuss it with others? The only time I remotely see this mattering is if they go out of their way to make claims about the story when they're not familiar with it.

Thats why they are just casual fans not real fans.

Also, Toriyama's story is something he wrote for personal amusement and the excitement of his readers on a weekly basis for ten years, and which no doubt found rotating audiences throughout its run. It's amazing that it's as consistent as it is, and absolutely open to more nuanced discussion, but let's maintain perspective here. This is not art that he created to be viewed and digested in full.

No author/creator creates an art and expect "Real Fans" to just read/watch a part of it. I can understand that if they were two separate mangas. However they are not and books are meant to be read in full, same goes to mangas or a movie or even a tv show(skipping filler of course).

Who the fuck are you to tell people they are not real fans. I spent enough money on Dragon Ball. If you want to call me a casual fan that's fine but to say someone's not a real fan. ..kick rocks with that high horse bullshit.

[julianix]

unfortunately it's one of the worst animes of the year in almost every aspect - animation, storytelling, fight choreography, storyboarding art direction, script, characterization, etc.. It's really sad to see, especially being such a fan of the series. What's sadder though is people using the "dbzee" defense - as if Dbz was a huge pile of shit to begin with. it wasn't beethoven, but people pretend like it was some obscenely awful anime that didn't become a global phenomenon. Super has been insultingly exploitative, hollow, and absolutely terrible but people here will have you think that if you don't like Super it's because Broly isn't in the series going super saiyan 3. the "promo" manga feels much more true to the source material even if i don't agree with the direction the manga went with.

Pretty much sums it up for me. I wouldn't go as far as one of the worst but definitely lacking on the points you mentioned.

[coola]

Actually, for now, i will stick with manga version, and watch anime, when they move to 28th Budokai times

[Retan]

I feel like those first 2 (movie) arcs were almost a warm up of sorts for what follows.