Super Episode 109-110 (8 October 2017)

[HeroR]

Of course not, it's based on EPs 109 and 110. Why do you care though? The manga isn't the source material here, and the anime isn't an adaptation. It's not like with the DB manga and the anime.

I asked because it was never said Beerus is stronger than any god other than Champa.

Yeah, but Whis said that the god of destruction from the universe with the mortal that a GoD can't defeat is stronger than Beerus. Therefore Belmod > Beerus.

And Beerus refuted this by pointed out that he only lost once in arm wrestling. Now knowing Beerus, he maybe trying to save face, but it is something to note.

[New_Guy]

This was definitely one of if not THE best episode in Super but honestly was anyone besides me actually disappointed that Goku didn't win this time? I mean I know he's still in the tourney and they may fight again but I'm getting tired of the whole "Goku gets a new form but it still isn't enough" thing. What really grinds me up is all the hype the form was given and after utilizing it, it still only made a small difference in the large gap. Goku only landed a few direct hits and Jiren is still completely unfazed. Can the guy ever win a major battle straight up for once? Sheesh

[HeroR]

Pretty much every reaction I've seen of this, people can't stand Ribrianne.

I don't like her either but she seems to be really hated. Probably more so than any other Super character so far.

I didn't mind her gimmick at first but whenever she's on screen she eats up a ton of time while accomplishing absolutely nothing of note.

Funny thing is that for the entire double episode/special she only had about five minutes. Yet I've seen people complain she was in like half of Episode 109, which is total bullshit.

I personally find Ribrianne a very enjoyable character. It would be funny if most of the complaints about Ribrianne were from YT comments. And that were the case, I wouldn't really take any of that shit seriously.

People had the same reaction with the Pilaf Gang in the Future Trunks Saga. Their gag role was about five minutes and people acted like they were in half the episode.

[HeroR]

C'mon. You know this series does WAY more wrong than the previous two series.

Nothing of too much significance. The thing it mainly got wrong was the animation but that was a problem from over a year ago.

Perhaps some story quibbles and inconsistencies here and there but nothing too drastic and not as bad as what Dragon Ball or Dragon Ball Z had because of the filler which made up about 40% of the whole series.

Better fights, better character usage, better pacing etc. What it might do wrong it offsets by doing other things right.

Considering its not based on a manga but plot points and is written by half a dozen different people it could have a whole lot more going wrong for it than it actually does.

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z only had 15% filler.

[Bullza]

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z only had 15% filler.

Not even remotely close. You're basing that off of that website which is only going by if it's a 100% filler episode. Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z filler was not like that or like how filler is done today where it's kept separate. A huge chunk of each episode was pure filler.

Up to the end of the Android arc, Dragon Ball Z ran for 194 episodes. Dragon Ball Kai covered the same material in 98 episodes and considering that even Kai had some filler means about 50% and more of that show was filler.

[HeroR]

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z only had 15% filler.

Not even remotely close. You're basing that off of that website which is only going by if it's a 100% filler episode. Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z filler was not like that or like how filler is done today where it's kept separate. A huge chunk of each episode was pure filler.

Up to the end of the Android arc, Dragon Ball Z ran for 194 episodes. Dragon Ball Kai covered the same material in 98 episodes and considering that even Kai had some filler means about 50% and more of that show was filler.

Dragon Ball and especially Z didn't have as much filler as you're pushing. Especially when the anime was only a few months off from the manga. At its closest, Super Saiyan Goku from the manga happened only a few weeks before the anime.

[Jigurashi]

This was definitely one of if not THE best episode in Super but honestly was anyone besides me actually disappointed that Goku didn't win this time? I mean I know he's still in the tourney and they may fight again but I'm getting tired of the whole "Goku gets a new form but it still isn't enough" thing. What really grinds me up is all the hype the form was given and after utilizing it, it still only made a small difference in the large gap. Goku only landed a few direct hits and Jiren is still completely unfazed. Can the guy ever win a major battle straight up for once? Sheesh

I wasn't disappointed. He loses fairly often but I feel it's pretty likely that Goku will get a rematch with Jiren later in the tournament. We were once shown that shot of UI Goku shirtless with a multi-colored aura. That's likely to show up later in the tournament. If Goku does rematch Jiren, I'd like to see him win.

[Bullza]

Well Super has better individual cuts of animation, sure, but on the whole it's not even close. The average DBZ fight is still far more engaging than the average Super fight, which still suffers from atrocious choreography and occasional mediocre to bad animation. I think most of us would agree the "intensity" of the fights back in the day is long gone in Super.

That was a lot of the story of the fight with Dragon Ball Z. How fights were built up, what happened in between and then how they were resolved. That part is mostly better than Super. The actual fighting itself is done a lot better in Super.

The fights in Z were very gif like, they constantly stopped either to talk or to stare at one another, they'd spend ages charging and firing attacks. You didn't get many fights like what we had yesterday with Goku vs Jiren or Vegito vs Zamasu, Goku vs Gohan, Goku vs Toppo etc.

They're brief so they're not gonna be as memorable but they are more replayable and is an actual fight rather than the usual red light green light fights they had before.

I don't have a clue how you came to that conclusion. Z certainly wasn't the best when it came to utilizing it's cast of characters, but it certainly gave them more to do than Super. DBS has been the Goku and Vegeta show for it's entirety up until this arc.

Z replaced most of ut's starting characters. Launch was literally forgotten about. Master Roshi was relegated to just being stuck on his island and making the odd pervy joke. Oolong and Puar were background props. Yamcha and Tien each had one notable seen since the Saiyan saga and Chiaotzu didn't even get that.

By the Buu saga even Bulma had no real significance at all. Piccolo started to become comic relief. Krillin didn't really do anything at all.

Then we have Dragon Ball Super. Roshi has done more than he ever did the King Piccolo saga. Tien and Krillin have been involved in a few fights now, they're first major ones since the Cell saga. Piccolo who hadn't really fought anyone since Android 17 has had quite a few fights in Super. Bulma was important in the Future Trunks saga.

They've brought back the Pilaf Gang who had been forgotten too. Android 17 who just went out of Z for no real reason. Android 18 is a part of the action, aside from her joke fight with Mr Satan she had just become the milf. They brought back Future Trunks who even beat the main villain this time around.

All of this on top of introducing more characters than ever and giving people like Beerus, Champa, Whis, Zen Oh, Frieza, Frost, Hit, Caulifla and Kale all things to do as well.

This is kinda subjective, but while DBZ is obviously far too slow, Super has overcorrected in my mind and blows by everything WAY too fast. They don't even let anything breath, it's just zipping form one story point to the next, one fight to the next, with no real significant plot developments in between (funnily enough this arc actually suffered from that classic DBZ slow pacing with the recruitment episodes, which undeniably dragged on far too long)

That's probably a little true but at least with this current Tournament it is supposed to be fast and hectic and jumping from one thing to another. I'd definitely rather have this kind of pace than what we had in Z where Goku fought Frieza for 20 episodes.

I don't think people would have the patience at for Z's pacing nowadays.

[Bullza]

Dragon Ball and especially Z didn't have as much filler as you're pushing. Especially when the anime was only a few months off from the manga. At its closest, Super Saiyan Goku from the manga happened only a few weeks before the anime.

What I said was just a simple fact of numbers. Kai was Z without the filler and it took Kai half the amount of episodes to get to the same point as Z.

They literally cut out about 50% of the material up through the Cell Games saga. And again Kai still had its filler because I remember they kept in the stuff with Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma.

There really is that much filler because it's here and there throughout every episode. For example I'm watching the Namek saga right now and for every canon scene theres a scene with Goku on the Spaceship like his ship heading into the sun, a scene on King Kai's planet like Piccolo fighting Yamcha and Tien, a scene with Bulma like her fighting the giant crab etc.

It was constantly like that. Then they started to overextend things like Vegeta's Final Flash taking 5 minutes when it took a couple pages in the manga, the constant staring, powering up, dust clearing etc.

That would never fly anymore.

[Artorias]

I just realized something: This is probably the first time this show has ever given us 4 good episodes in a row. 107-110 was all pretty damn great stuff I'd say. Hopefully the trend continues.

(Previously I felt that 37, 38, and 39 was the only instance where they even nailed 3 episodes in a row).

[Zagacious]

Dragon Ball and especially Z didn't have as much filler as you're pushing. Especially when the anime was only a few months off from the manga. At its closest, Super Saiyan Goku from the manga happened only a few weeks before the anime.

What I said was just a simple fact of numbers. Kai was Z without the filler and it took Kai half the amount of episodes to get to the same point as Z.

They literally cut out about 50% of the material up through the Cell Games saga. And again Kai still had its filler because I remember they kept in the stuff with Captain Ginyu switching bodies with Bulma.

There really is that much filler because it's here and there throughout every episode. For example I'm watching the Namek saga right now and for every canon scene theres a scene with Goku on the Spaceship like his ship heading into the sun, a scene on King Kai's planet like Piccolo fighting Yamcha and Tien, a scene with Bulma like her fighting the giant crab etc.

It was constantly like that. Then they started to overextend things like Vegeta's Final Flash taking 5 minutes when it took a couple pages in the manga, the constant staring, powering up, dust clearing etc.

That would never fly anymore.

It is far more than just a simple fact of numbers. Dragon Ball Z had more episodes that were considered filler material, yes, but the importance of those episodes are far above any of the fillers now that are pretty much meaningless as you said an entirely separate material. Almost every episode of DBS minus 10 or 15 really good ones have tons of filler moments where there is absolutely nothing going on that's obviously just there to fill time. If you are calling Goku training for Namek and long fights fillers then I don't think you really understand what filler is as it was a huge part of the series even back to DB. Compare those long fights to what we have now where fights are only a couple minutes at most with a ton of essentially filler stuff thrown in.

[Shi_Neko13]

How awesome to finally see Goku just explode full strength and fight at his absolute potential. Every bit of "what could Goku be capable of?" answered: unspeakably amazing.

[Gig]

Are spectators allowed to give their energy to those fighting? :-/
Are people allowed to give energy to someone using light sticks?

And so, Jiren and the new Goku form are above God of Destruction level? Does that mean they are at Angel level?
(For what "levels" may mean something in Super...)

[Gig]

Funny how Super Saiyan 3 was missed.
Guess Toei really do hate animating that form.

IIRC, SSJ3 consumes a lot of stamina. Using that just for a test isn't very advisable, if you have to keep for your stamina for another half of the tournament.

[Tombstone1988]

Funny thing is that for the entire double episode/special she only had about five minutes. Yet I've seen people complain she was in like half of Episode 109, which is total bullshit.

You're not wrong, but not totally accurate either. She was in about 5-and-a-half minutes of an episode that's approximately 19 minutes long. That's roughly 30% of the episode. So if people didn't like her, that means she dragged down roughly 30% of the episode for them. Saying she ruined the entire special is certainly a stretch (she barely showed up in 110), but I'd say Ribrianne is a valid criticism for episode 109 at least.

I just realized something: This is probably the first time this show has ever given us 4 good episodes in a row. 107-110 was all pretty damn great stuff I'd say. Hopefully the trend continues.

(Previously I felt that 37, 38, and 39 was the only instance where they even nailed 3 episodes in a row).

I don't know, quite a lot of people, myself included, didn't care for episode 108. I get your point though, Super does seem to be getting better as this arc progresses.

[SuperHumanGod]

Based on quality and quantity this was the best fight of DBS so far and a top ten from all of DB. It was just everything I wanted and more. Especially the Goku smackdown.

[namekiansaiyan]

Now that I think about it, there is a good chance that we are going to see the U6 Namekians soon, because of the upcoming U3 episode, we got a shot of them "fighting?" two of the U3 fighters, so we might get to see them already.

Or maybe Hit loses to Jiren, get's trown out, Champa freaks out, but Vados reminds him of "that" pair, Champa does a sinister smile, and we get a close shot of the U6 Namekians just before the ending.

That'd be a nice way to hype the Namekians.

Ever since we knew Hit vs Jiren was happening I have had that exact scene Venus mentioned in my head. It probably means it won't happen now. I do think that Hit will be knocked out though so they make everyone think it is over for Universe 6.

[Zoeyvalentine]

I loved the episodes 9/10!

I'm just curious, can goku use ULTRA-INSTINCT when he wish. Because that seems even the Gods can't use that form freely.

In case goku can't use the ULTRA-INSTINCT anymore. Gogeta may be the last hope. Maybe Freezer, Piccolo and Gohan will try make some time for Vegeta-Goku do the metamor fusion

Gogeta maybe will be able to use Ultra instinct freely cuz he is a lot stronger than Goku.

Also Goku was on pair with Jiren not beating him. I think the power levels are like this

WISS 15
Beerus is 10
Vegeta SSBLUE 7
Goku SSBLUE 8
Golden Freezer 8
Hit 8
Jiren 11
Goku ultra instinct 11
Gogeta SSBLUE 15

[Kogu 87]

I don't have a clue how you came to that conclusion. Z certainly wasn't the best when it came to utilizing it's cast of characters, but it certainly gave them more to do than Super. DBS has been the Goku and Vegeta show for it's entirety up until this arc.

Z replaced most of ut's starting characters. Launch was literally forgotten about. Master Roshi was relegated to just being stuck on his island and making the odd pervy joke. Oolong and Puar were background props. Yamcha and Tien each had one notable seen since the Saiyan saga and Chiaotzu didn't even get that.

By the Buu saga even Bulma had no real significance at all. Piccolo started to become comic relief. Krillin didn't really do anything at all.

Then we have Dragon Ball Super. Roshi has done more than he ever did the King Piccolo saga. Tien and Krillin have been involved in a few fights now, they're first major ones since the Cell saga. Piccolo who hadn't really fought anyone since Android 17 has had quite a few fights in Super. Bulma was important in the Future Trunks saga.

They've brought back the Pilaf Gang who had been forgotten too. Android 17 who just went out of Z for no real reason. Android 18 is a part of the action, aside from her joke fight with Mr Satan she had just become the milf. They brought back Future Trunks who even beat the main villain this time around.

All of this on top of introducing more characters than ever and giving people like Beerus, Champa, Whis, Zen Oh, Frieza, Frost, Hit, Caulifla and Kale all things to do as well.

Agree with you wholeheartedly.
Saying Z gave its characters more to do than Super is simply not true. This arc has done wonderful job of bringing other characters to the forefront (Namely Roshi and 17). We've even had a Yamcha centered episode for god's sake !

It's not perfect, but it's pretty damn great.

[TheOne]

I find it interesting, for example, their are characters in Dragon Ball Right now I particular don't like much, but never complain about. Yet for some reason some fans can't stop but have complaints about 1 character our of over 30+. Honestly it seems easy just to say not my cup of tea a move on.

Sorry to hear you don't like her but that is the Breaks, you have to watch characters you many not be found of same as the rest of the Fandom. Everyone has someone they are not found of, but we respect that character cause we know they have fans out their that do. For me, I love the fact I am Finally Seeing a character in Dragon Ball Homage Sailor Moon and Precure, In fact she and her theme is the only reason I am truly back as a dragon ball fan after feeling it was stale for so long.

Just cause she is not your cup of tea does not me she is not the Right and Perfect cup of tea for other.

Each has their own and each should show respect even when they don't completely agree. It is about Peace and Honor to all, same is given to all.

Ribrianne doesn't take away from the series for me. It's like you said, just not my cup of tea. I just disagreed that it was a masculinity thing. I should've communicated that differently.

It's spelled Fairy Tail, not "Fairy Tale".
Also while I understand hearing her talk about love could get annoying, it's no different from Vegeta constantly talking or bragging about his "Saiyan Pride" imo.
Just glad you're not claiming she's weak or something like most delusional people, just because you dislike the character when she clearly isn't weak. I'm not a fan of Jiren for a few reasons, but I'm not going to claim he's weak as one of them cause that's just absurd.

Who cares how it's spelled...? I'm not obvlivious to the show. I watched a good amount of it before I dropped it. Even glanced at how they wrapped it up. Unnecessary