"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[zamasu121]

17 is basically the Piccolo of super. He got the gains that Piccolo got during the android saga except scaled up over 10 years. They both went from weak as shit to strong as fuck. People down play both their gains to. Piccolo was definitely stronger than Frieza before fusing with Kami, and people stay in denial about that. Just like they have to down play 17 right now. Goten and Trunks are even worse than Piccolo and 17. At least those two actually worked for it. You either call out all the BS or none of it.

I've stated my thoughts on this in another thread but I'll reply to this.
1) I don't think 19/20 were as strong as final form frieza or even 50% frieza. Nothing really implies they are. In fact I think they were so weak that they were probably originally defeated in Trunks timeline even without SSJ Goku/Vegeta but 17/18 still got activated.

2) There's nothing to imply Piccolo was stronger than Frieza unless you also assume 19/20 were. Further I also don't believe Piccolo was as weak as we think. Both 2nd form Frieza and Piccolo were holding back when Frieza made the over 1 million statement. Piccolo even had weighted clothes on when he was clearly over that 1 million mark. Its possible he could have be the low millions at that point. As for being stronger than Frieza? See point 1.

if android 19 is so much weaker than freeza than how did he make ssj vegeta bleed?

[TheMikado]

17 is basically the Piccolo of super. He got the gains that Piccolo got during the android saga except scaled up over 10 years. They both went from weak as shit to strong as fuck. People down play both their gains to. Piccolo was definitely stronger than Frieza before fusing with Kami, and people stay in denial about that. Just like they have to down play 17 right now. Goten and Trunks are even worse than Piccolo and 17. At least those two actually worked for it. You either call out all the BS or none of it.

I've stated my thoughts on this in another thread but I'll reply to this.
1) I don't think 19/20 were as strong as final form frieza or even 50% frieza. Nothing really implies they are. In fact I think they were so weak that they were probably originally defeated in Trunks timeline even without SSJ Goku/Vegeta but 17/18 still got activated.

2) There's nothing to imply Piccolo was stronger than Frieza unless you also assume 19/20 were. Further I also don't believe Piccolo was as weak as we think. Both 2nd form Frieza and Piccolo were holding back when Frieza made the over 1 million statement. Piccolo even had weighted clothes on when he was clearly over that 1 million mark. Its possible he could have be the low millions at that point. As for being stronger than Frieza? See point 1.

if android 19 is so much weaker than freeza than how did he make ssj vegeta bleed?

If you are referencing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXzooTdJ3U0

Vegeta clearly let him hit him all he wanted. As evidenced by Recoome being twice the power level of say Vegeta you can still get messed up if you let your guard down which SSJ Vegeta fully did and android 19 still really couldn't hurt him. I doubt android 19 is even half as powerful as final form frieza. Same as Final form frieza getting his hand burnt against kaioken Goku https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIzF-CNUAY

Piccolo even says either the Z warriors are stronger or the androids aren't as strong as they were supposed to be and we find out later that this is true.

[Beyond]

17 is basically the Piccolo of super. He got the gains that Piccolo got during the android saga except scaled up over 10 years. They both went from weak as shit to strong as fuck. People down play both their gains to. Piccolo was definitely stronger than Frieza before fusing with Kami, and people stay in denial about that. Just like they have to down play 17 right now. Goten and Trunks are even worse than Piccolo and 17. At least those two actually worked for it. You either call out all the BS or none of it.

I've stated my thoughts on this in another thread but I'll reply to this.
1) I don't think 19/20 were as strong as final form frieza or even 50% frieza. Nothing really implies they are. In fact I think they were so weak that they were probably originally defeated in Trunks timeline even without SSJ Goku/Vegeta but 17/18 still got activated.

2) There's nothing to imply Piccolo was stronger than Frieza unless you also assume 19/20 were. Further I also don't believe Piccolo was as weak as we think. Both 2nd form Frieza and Piccolo were holding back when Frieza made the over 1 million statement. Piccolo even had weighted clothes on when he was clearly over that 1 million mark. Its possible he could have be the low millions at that point. As for being stronger than Frieza? See point 1.

3) Goten and Trunks, there was absolutely no excuse for it and in universe every single character called them out on it and how absolutely nuts it was. Literally every character who saw how strong they were and go SSJ had their jaws drop, Chichi, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, no one treated that like an everyday power up and called it out in universe.

1) There is no definite proof that they're strong, but there is none that they're weak either. Goku's base serious punch didn't do much to 20 other then knock off his hat. 19 still took a beating from SSJ Goku. This shows us 19 was weaker but not in the getting stomped range. Piccolo and Vegeta(I think it was those two) only said they might be the wrong androids, not they definitely were the wrong androids.

2) Piccolo was confident in his ability to handle a threat that he knew was stronger than SSJ Trunks from the mecha arc, and if you think Piccolo meant the group's ability than that still basically just him and Goku, so he'd still have to be in a range where he wouldn't be a liability, and in dbz it doesn't take much of a difference to get one shot. The only thing that I could think of that muddles this is Piccolo faking getting knocked out by 20 instead of just kicking his ass, and I argue that he did that because he wasn't sure he could beat both androids at the same time because he though they could be strong.

3) fair enough.

[MrBlackFox]

Piccolo will be hyped only to be humiliated badly at the tournament
Story of his useless life :'(

Damn, I'd pay to have him doing something really relevant for once
What a waste

[zamasu121]

I've stated my thoughts on this in another thread but I'll reply to this.
1) I don't think 19/20 were as strong as final form frieza or even 50% frieza. Nothing really implies they are. In fact I think they were so weak that they were probably originally defeated in Trunks timeline even without SSJ Goku/Vegeta but 17/18 still got activated.

2) There's nothing to imply Piccolo was stronger than Frieza unless you also assume 19/20 were. Further I also don't believe Piccolo was as weak as we think. Both 2nd form Frieza and Piccolo were holding back when Frieza made the over 1 million statement. Piccolo even had weighted clothes on when he was clearly over that 1 million mark. Its possible he could have be the low millions at that point. As for being stronger than Frieza? See point 1.

if android 19 is so much weaker than freeza than how did he make ssj vegeta bleed?

If you are referencing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXzooTdJ3U0

Vegeta clearly let him hit him all he wanted. As evidenced by Recoome being twice the power level of say Vegeta you can still get messed up if you let your guard down which SSJ Vegeta fully did and android 19 still really couldn't hurt him. I doubt android 19 is even half as powerful as final form frieza. Same as Final form frieza getting his hand burnt against kaioken Goku https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIzF-CNUAY

Piccolo even says either the Z warriors are stronger or the androids aren't as strong as they were supposed to be and we find out later that this is true.

Android 19 and 20 are at least as strong as freeza at 50% power, and nothing suggest otherwise, so that would mean piccolo got at least 60 times stronger if not more in three years.

[namekiansaiyan]

Piccolo will be hyped only to be humiliated badly at the tournament
Story of his useless life :'(

Damn, I'd pay to have him doing something really relevant for once
What a waste

That is Vegeta's role, Jiren will beat him in 1 punch. Gohan will be relying on Piccolo, so for Gohan to do well, Piccolo also has to do well. Towards the end Gohan will 'start to remember his training' and then do well. That meditating stuff will mean something for Jiren, Piccolo and Gohan.

[TheMikado]

17 is basically the Piccolo of super. He got the gains that Piccolo got during the android saga except scaled up over 10 years. They both went from weak as shit to strong as fuck. People down play both their gains to. Piccolo was definitely stronger than Frieza before fusing with Kami, and people stay in denial about that. Just like they have to down play 17 right now. Goten and Trunks are even worse than Piccolo and 17. At least those two actually worked for it. You either call out all the BS or none of it.

I've stated my thoughts on this in another thread but I'll reply to this.
1) I don't think 19/20 were as strong as final form frieza or even 50% frieza. Nothing really implies they are. In fact I think they were so weak that they were probably originally defeated in Trunks timeline even without SSJ Goku/Vegeta but 17/18 still got activated.

2) There's nothing to imply Piccolo was stronger than Frieza unless you also assume 19/20 were. Further I also don't believe Piccolo was as weak as we think. Both 2nd form Frieza and Piccolo were holding back when Frieza made the over 1 million statement. Piccolo even had weighted clothes on when he was clearly over that 1 million mark. Its possible he could have be the low millions at that point. As for being stronger than Frieza? See point 1.

3) Goten and Trunks, there was absolutely no excuse for it and in universe every single character called them out on it and how absolutely nuts it was. Literally every character who saw how strong they were and go SSJ had their jaws drop, Chichi, Gohan, Goku, Vegeta, no one treated that like an everyday power up and called it out in universe.

1) There is no definite proof that they're strong, but there is none that they're weak either. Goku's base serious punch didn't do much to 20 other then knock off his hat. 19 still took a beating from SSJ Goku. This shows us 19 was weaker but not in the getting stomped range. Piccolo and Vegeta(I think it was those two) only said they might be the wrong androids, not they definitely were the wrong androids.

2) Piccolo was confident in his ability to handle a threat that he knew was stronger than SSJ Trunks from the mecha arc, and if you think Piccolo meant the group's ability than that still basically just him and Goku, so he'd still have to be in a range where he wouldn't be a liability, and in dbz it doesn't take much of a difference to get one shot. The only thing that I could think of that muddles this is Piccolo faking getting knocked out by 20 instead of just kicking his ass, and I argue that he did that because he wasn't sure he could beat both androids at the same time because he though they could be strong.

3) fair enough.

All I'm saying is there is enough evidence to support it that they are weaker than Frieza. Geekdom did a video on it and basically their only reasoning for believing they were stronger than Frieza is because Toriyama originally had them as the main antagonists and he always introduces stronger characters. I think that's a silly out of universe reason as we don't know the exact point he changed his mind and they had power absorbing techniques.. Anyway, I don't want to make this a power debate thread, I'm just saying that there's enough evidence to suggest neither 19/20 or Piccolo had exceeded Frieza so its hard to use that as a concrete critique and example of wonky stuff.

[TheMikado]

if android 19 is so much weaker than freeza than how did he make ssj vegeta bleed?

If you are referencing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXzooTdJ3U0

Vegeta clearly let him hit him all he wanted. As evidenced by Recoome being twice the power level of say Vegeta you can still get messed up if you let your guard down which SSJ Vegeta fully did and android 19 still really couldn't hurt him. I doubt android 19 is even half as powerful as final form frieza. Same as Final form frieza getting his hand burnt against kaioken Goku https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIzF-CNUAY

Piccolo even says either the Z warriors are stronger or the androids aren't as strong as they were supposed to be and we find out later that this is true.

Android 19 and 20 are at least as strong as freeza at 50% power, and nothing suggest otherwise, so that would mean piccolo got at least 60 times stronger if not more in three years.

How did you make the determination at that specific area of power for the androids?? Just curious. Also on Piccolo's multiplier?

[Noah]

I don't think super is a good series.

Me neither. I just watch it because It's Dragon Ball and I'm a passionate fan of the franchise. People complain because they would like this series to follow pre established stuff in Z/Kai and I think is okay to do that. Aside from power level mess, Super from Champa arc onward is somewhat entertaining.

[zamasu121]

If you are referencing this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXzooTdJ3U0

Vegeta clearly let him hit him all he wanted. As evidenced by Recoome being twice the power level of say Vegeta you can still get messed up if you let your guard down which SSJ Vegeta fully did and android 19 still really couldn't hurt him. I doubt android 19 is even half as powerful as final form frieza. Same as Final form frieza getting his hand burnt against kaioken Goku https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIzF-CNUAY

Piccolo even says either the Z warriors are stronger or the androids aren't as strong as they were supposed to be and we find out later that this is true.

Android 19 and 20 are at least as strong as freeza at 50% power, and nothing suggest otherwise, so that would mean piccolo got at least 60 times stronger if not more in three years.

How did you make the determination at that specific area of power for the androids?? Just curious. Also on Piccolo's multiplier?

Because there is nothing that suggest that they were weaker than frieza. As for piccolo's multiplier, he was around the same level as second form frieza, so around 1000000, and if the androids 19 and 20 where at the level of final form frieza that means piccolo got over 60 times stronger.

[zamasu121]

I don't think super is a good series.

Me neither. I just watch it because It's Dragon Ball and I'm a passionate fan of the franchise. People complain because they would like this series to follow pre established stuff in Z/Kai and I think is okay to do that. Aside from power level mess, Super from Champa arc onward is somewhat entertaining.

Yes the series is pretty entertaining, which is why i stuck with it, but i feel like i can't take anymore bs moments like Trunks genkidama sword. I just hope toei won't go full retard with this arc...who am i kidding they totally will.

[Ajay]

Any and all power level discussions should make their way to the respective threads.

Thank you.

[TheMathemagician]

Piccolo will be hyped only to be humiliated badly at the tournament
Story of his useless life :'(

I'd say that's only the case in Super. He's just been treated as a big joke in Super up to this point. I'm hoping to see something from him. But I can't say I'd be surprised if he gets done dirty.

Lol at the comment that if Gohan does well then Piccolo has to do well too. That's not the case at all.

[Lapislettuce]

Piccolo will be hyped only to be humiliated badly at the tournament
Story of his useless life :'(

I'd say that's only the case in Super. He's just been treated as a big joke in Super up to this point. I'm hoping to see something from him. But I can't say I'd be surprised if he gets done dirty.

Lol at the comment that if Gohan does well then Piccolo has to do well too. That's not the case at all.

It's not just in DBS i don't remember Piccolo having a moment ever since his fight with 17.

[The gr]

I don't think super is a good series.

Me neither. I just watch it because It's Dragon Ball and I'm a passionate fan of the franchise. People complain because they would like this series to follow pre established stuff in Z/Kai and I think is okay to do that. Aside from power level mess, Super from Champa arc onward is somewhat entertaining.

Yes the series is pretty entertaining, which is why i stuck with it, but i feel like i can't take anymore bs moments like Trunks genkidama sword. I just hope toei won't go full retard with this arc...who am i kidding they totally will.

Are you watching the current arc, because they did some questionable things,or you didn't watch anything relating the universe survival arc

[kinisking]

Piccolo will be hyped only to be humiliated badly at the tournament
Story of his useless life :'(

I'd say that's only the case in Super. He's just been treated as a big joke in Super up to this point. I'm hoping to see something from him. But I can't say I'd be surprised if he gets done dirty.

Lol at the comment that if Gohan does well then Piccolo has to do well too. That's not the case at all.

Piccolo's always been this way though. In Z he got humiliated off the bat by Dabura, and got hyped only to be destroyed by cell and Freeza. The Saiyan saga was his first and only real W. At least in the Champa arc he would've won if frost didn't cheat.

[MrBlackFox]

Now that you mentioned it, imo that meditation thing could be something big for Tien too, I see no one capable of meditating better than him, he's literally a monk

My hype for a namekian God Piccolo will kill me, I'm sure

[SansrivaaL]

Meditating is a form of training the mind, every fighter does it for mental training, I dont think that will play a role in who gets to fight who.

[MrBlackFox]

Piccolo will be hyped only to be humiliated badly at the tournament
Story of his useless life :'(

I'd say that's only the case in Super. He's just been treated as a big joke in Super up to this point. I'm hoping to see something from him. But I can't say I'd be surprised if he gets done dirty.

Lol at the comment that if Gohan does well then Piccolo has to do well too. That's not the case at all.

Piccolo's always been this way though. In Z he got humiliated off the bat by Dabura, and got hyped only to be destroyed by cell and Freeza. The Saiyan saga was his first and only real W. At least in the Champa arc he would've won if frost didn't cheat.

Isn't he much loved in characters liking polls ?
His better fight was with 17, among my favourite battles in the entire DB, but I'd want to see at least One useful battle for him
Try to Imagine if he'll be the One to save the universes, that could be One of the best surprises ever will never happen tho
I want to see crazy strategies from him and some new cool move

[MrBlackFox]

Meditating is a form of training the mind, every fighter does it for mental training, I dont think that will play a role in who gets to fight who.

Usually yes, but in Super looks like it can raise your power like normal training and maybe more