The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[shonenhikada]

Neko Majin vs Super Buu.

[Fox666]

Gag character = infinite battle power.

[Mystic Gohan]

You think they'll be at 100K even after the three years of training?

After the Grand Elder's power-up AND training, yes. Without the power-up they'd be lucky if they've broken 50,000 instead. They're only humans, and don't gain power anywhere near as quickly as the Saiyans or Piccolo.

50k? Really? What suggests that the humans are so weak? Dr. Gero implies that the Humans + Piccolo + Gohan > SSJ Vegeta and that's before he gets his butt wooped by Piccolo.

[Fox666]

Technically the sum of their powers would not be stronger than Vegeta, but only strong enough to fill the difference beetween Gero and Vegeta.

Of course, Gero also thought he was stronger than Piccolo. He also thought that an energy which according to Piccolo "doesn't matter" could be used against Vegeta.

[Kaboom]

50k? Really? What suggests that the humans are so weak? Dr. Gero implies that the Humans + Piccolo + Gohan > SSJ Vegeta and that's before he gets his butt wooped by Piccolo.

1) ~50,000 is by no means "weak."
2) The Grand Elder's parlor trick was the only reason Kuririn got shot up to 75,000+ on Namek like he did. It was essentially a cheat code for free power, and a massive bump up that the other humans never got. Training on Kaio's may help a lot, but it's only going to get them so far before they're plopped back down to regular Earth-level training during the pre-Androids period.
3) Gero was wrong about pretty much everything. He's hardly trustworthy on the matter.

[Z-Dragon]

(Sick) SSJ Goku vs. #19 without absorbing energy.

Saibamen vs. "Saibamen" monsters from Movie 2 that beaten Gohan up before they all were destroyed by Piccolo.

[dbgtFO]

1) Goku even going all-out was doing no damage, but he was still owning #19, so without absorption it becomes a matter of whose energy runs out first. If Goku were to fire a Kamehameha, #19 would just dodge it. If Goku doesn't fire a Kamehameha, he'd probably outlast #19.

2) Kamesennin gave those Plant rip-offs a good fight didn't he? If so, I'll go with the Plantmen.

[shonenhikada]

50k? Really? What suggests that the humans are so weak? Dr. Gero implies that the Humans + Piccolo + Gohan > SSJ Vegeta and that's before he gets his butt wooped by Piccolo.

1) ~50,000 is by no means "weak."
2) The Grand Elder's parlor trick was the only reason Kuririn got shot up to 75,000+ on Namek like he did. It was essentially a cheat code for free power, and a massive bump up that the other humans never got. Training on Kaio's may help a lot, but it's only going to get them so far before they're plopped back down to regular Earth-level training during the pre-Androids period.
3) Gero was wrong about pretty much everything. He's hardly trustworthy on the matter.

If we use goku's as a measuring stick for his friends result with the same master they would all be below raditz in the saiyan saga. Goku went 4 years with kami and went form 260-416,his friends went from 200-300 to 1800-2000 in a year. Not that unlikely that if Goku made 8000 in 178 days that his friends could make 5 x that amount in 1/5 the time.

[Saiga]

If we use goku's as a measuring stick for his friends result with the same master they would all be below raditz in the saiyan saga. Goku went 4 years with kami and went form 260-416,his friends went from 200-300 to 1800-2000 in a year. Not that unlikely that if Goku made 8000 in 178 days that his friends could make 5 x that amount in 1/5 the time.

3 years, and the difference is that Goku didn't was trained by himself while the humans had sparring partners. It's been stated that having a sparring partner is more beneficial to one's growth. So it's not just "Oh humans gain power 25x as fast as Goku" because in the same conditions (early DB) he's pretty much always been superior to them.

[shonenhikada]

If we use goku's as a measuring stick for his friends result with the same master they would all be below raditz in the saiyan saga. Goku went 4 years with kami and went form 260-416,his friends went from 200-300 to 1800-2000 in a year. Not that unlikely that if Goku made 8000 in 178 days that his friends could make 5 x that amount in 1/5 the time.

3 years, and the difference is that Goku didn't was trained by himself while the humans had sparring partners. It's been stated that having a sparring partner is more beneficial to one's growth. So it's not just "Oh humans gain power 25x as fast as Goku" because in the same conditions (early DB) he's pretty much always been superior to them.

Ah no. Goku had training partner to and a personal trainer by the name of Mr. Popo, did u forget goku had to fight a doll version of himself when he first came to kami tower. The only reason goku had to edge over the humans in early dragon ball because he either got some weird power up due to zenkai from his saiyan ability, or had better training opportunity,

example
Goku being stronger than tien after 22 nd tournament from drinking holy water and gain zenkai, Goku starting training before krillin with roshi thus always having that slight edge, and the list goes on...its pretty clear humans train harder than goku to keep up with him, while goku's sort of laid back on training, but is always ahead due to his saiyan powers, or better training opportunities presented to him.

[Saiga]

That doll thing was filler, and Goku was also learning things like Bukujutsu and ki sensing/masking. Furthermore Kami didn't oversee Goku's training like he did with the humans, he just left it to Popo.

Kurilin and Goku started training under Roshi at the same time, because he didn't start training them until they brought Lunch back. During that time Goku stayed ahead of Kurilin the entire time, even catching up with Roshi.

It isn't clear that the humans train harder than Goku. That's never said anywhere in the series.

[shonenhikada]

That doll thing was filler, and Goku was also learning things like Bukujutsu and ki sensing/masking. Furthermore Kami didn't oversee Goku's training like he did with the humans, he just left it to Popo.

Kurilin and Goku started training under Roshi at the same time, because he didn't start training them until they brought Lunch back. During that time Goku stayed ahead of Kurilin the entire time, even catching up with Roshi.

It isn't clear that the humans train harder than Goku. That's never said anywhere in the series.

So where did Kami directly involve himself with The human training, both goku and the humans both had their training oversead by Mr. Popo, and the fact they can improve so much from goku proves they train better than him. Also who had more time with Roshi was it krillin or goku, if you say it was equal your lying as goku got time to meet roshi before, learn/know about his kamehameha technique all before krillin met roshi thus giving goku a head start over krillin already.

Also using the oh goku didn't have a sparring partner is a poor argument as he easily had popo who was stronger than him at the time (since you don't want to include the doll) as a sparring partner to train with him.

[Saiga]

So where did Kami directly involve himself with The human training, both goku and the humans both had their training oversead by Mr. Popo, and the fact they can improve so much from goku proves they train better than him. Also who had more time with Roshi was it krillin or goku, if you say it was equal your lying as goku got time to meet roshi before, learn/know about his kamehameha technique all before krillin met roshi thus giving goku a head start over krillin already.

Also using the oh goku didn't have a sparring partner is a poor argument as he easily had popo who was stronger than him at the time (since you don't want to include the doll) as a sparring partner to train with him.

No, Kami was directly overseeing the human's training. We see so in the manga. Kurilin had more time with Roshi, because Goku left earlier. He met Roshi earlier, but that doesn't mean shit. They didn't train at all until Kurilin was there. The Kamehameha was self taught, so that also means nothing.

Why would Popo be stronger than Goku, who was at 260, when Kami was at 220? And like I said, Goku's training was focused on more than just gaining strength.

[shonenhikada]

So where did Kami directly involve himself with The human training, both goku and the humans both had their training oversead by Mr. Popo, and the fact they can improve so much from goku proves they train better than him. Also who had more time with Roshi was it krillin or goku, if you say it was equal your lying as goku got time to meet roshi before, learn/know about his kamehameha technique all before krillin met roshi thus giving goku a head start over krillin already.

Also using the oh goku didn't have a sparring partner is a poor argument as he easily had popo who was stronger than him at the time (since you don't want to include the doll) as a sparring partner to train with him.

No, Kami was directly overseeing the human's training. We see so in the manga. Kurilin had more time with Roshi, because Goku left earlier. He met Roshi earlier, but that doesn't mean shit. They didn't train at all until Kurilin was there. The Kamehameha was self taught, so that also means nothing.

Why would Popo be stronger than Goku, who was at 260, when Kami was at 220? And like I said, Goku's training was focused on more than just gaining strength.

Please refer to the manga where Popo pawns goku on lookout after defeating king piccolo. Also please stop using those PL as they are flawed and contradict the manga unless you think Nappa is really 4000.

For the first part Kami never actually shows overseeing we see a few time him looking at the human train with Popo giving orders, but nothing major to suggest he was taking part. Goku met Roshi first had time to see his kamehameha learn it, that's already a head start from krillin not to mention goku being stronger than him initially. If we use another example
Yamcha was about goku equal before training with Roshi, Goku after training with roshi was still weaker than Jackie Chun, while Yamcha after training with Mr. roshi was able to fight well against the same Tien that was kicking roshi butt, that alone is another evidence of goku's friend being overall better than him when given the same opportunities.

[Saiga]

I know what happens in the manga, in fact I'm reading it right now and there is nothing to contradict Goku being stronger than Popo. Popo outclasses Goku in skill, easily able to evade his attacks and keep track of his movements through sensing his ki. Popo compliments Goku's power, but says that he is lacking in skills and spirit. That is how Popo is able to beat him.

And the manga states that Kami is going to train the humans, not Popo. In the one scene we seen of them training, Kami is watching them.

And knowing the Kamehameha doesn't factor into strength at all, the point is that Goku and Kurilin went through the same training and Goku kept the gap between them if not widening it. So it shows that in the same training Kurilin didn't do any better than Goku. As for the 22nd Budokai, that's just plain wrong. Roshi did better than Yamcha against Tenshinhan, Tenshinhan schooled Yamcha and broke his leg where he wasn't sure if he could defeat Roshi, and Goku was even with Roshi after their training, with Roshi only winning because his kick struck a little deeper due to having longer legs. Not to mention that Yamcha had spent more time training with Roshi than Goku had the first time around. Most definitely not an example of Yamcha outdoing him.

[dbgtFO]

I know what happens in the manga, in fact I'm reading it right now and there is nothing to contradict Goku being stronger than Popo.

Yet Goku says this about him:

Chapter: 164, P3.4
Goku: “Amazin’! I’ve never met anyone strong as him before!”

Though I won't contest the rest of your post, as there is nothing to contest, but rather strengthen your points.

As for the 22nd Budokai, that's just plain wrong. Roshi did better than Yamcha against Tenshinhan, Tenshinhan schooled Yamcha and broke his leg where he wasn't sure if he could defeat Roshi,

Not to mention, he was not giving it his all against Yamcha* and Yamcha is implied weaker than Kame-sennin and by extent Tsuru-sennin**.

Not to mention that Yamcha had spent more time training with Roshi than Goku had the first time around. Most definitely not an example of Yamcha outdoing him.

All too true.

*

Chapter: 118, P13.4
Context: after Tenshinhan beats Yamcha
Tsuru-sennin: “I wish I could have seen Kame-sennin’s face turn pale. But Tenshinhan’s greatness is much, much more than this.”

Chapter: 123, P13.5
Kame-sennin: “What a guy…He took my technique head-on…He’s got power far greater than I imagined…Like I thought, a new generation of young people is on its way…”

Chapter: 131, P11.1
Chaozu: “This is the first time I’ve seen Ten-san fighting all-out…I want to see how the match will end too…”

**

Chapter: 123, P13.4
Tenshinhan: “This geezer [Kame-sennin] is absolutely unbelievable. I don’t know who he is, but his power goes above even Lord Tsuru-sennin…!”

[shonenhikada]

I know what happens in the manga, in fact I'm reading it right now and there is nothing to contradict Goku being stronger than Popo.

Yet Goku says this about him:

Chapter: 164, P3.4
Goku: “Amazin’! I’ve never met anyone strong as him before!”

Though I won't contest the rest of your post, as there is nothing to contest, but rather strengthen your points.

As for the 22nd Budokai, that's just plain wrong. Roshi did better than Yamcha against Tenshinhan, Tenshinhan schooled Yamcha and broke his leg where he wasn't sure if he could defeat Roshi,

Not to mention, he was not giving it his all against Yamcha* and Yamcha is implied weaker than Kame-sennin and by extent Tsuru-sennin**.

Not to mention that Yamcha had spent more time training with Roshi than Goku had the first time around. Most definitely not an example of Yamcha outdoing him.

All too true.

*

Chapter: 118, P13.4
Context: after Tenshinhan beats Yamcha
Tsuru-sennin: “I wish I could have seen Kame-sennin’s face turn pale. But Tenshinhan’s greatness is much, much more than this.”

Chapter: 123, P13.5
Kame-sennin: “What a guy…He took my technique head-on…He’s got power far greater than I imagined…Like I thought, a new generation of young people is on its way…”

Chapter: 131, P11.1
Chaozu: “This is the first time I’ve seen Ten-san fighting all-out…I want to see how the match will end too…”

**

Chapter: 123, P13.4
Tenshinhan: “This geezer [Kame-sennin] is absolutely unbelievable. I don’t know who he is, but his power goes above even Lord Tsuru-sennin…!”

So with this your implying Tien is barely above roshi and goku got little to no strength boost between Budokai 21st and 22nd ?

Anyway this argument is going in circles...as stated already "having a sparring partner is more beneficial to one's growth."" so it makes sense the humans would have progressed faster and in a shorter time in Namek saga and obtain those kind of BP since they could fight each other. This is what I wanted to bring across to explain his friends possible increase to that level.

[dbgtFO]

How could you possibly get that out of my post?

I'm saying that Yamcha(22nd Tournament) is weak, so weak that the strength Tenshinhan used to defeat him was much lower than the strength he used to fight Roshi and later Goku.

Oh wait. I think I get why you would think that...

You don't know that Roshi got stronger between the 21st and 22nd Tournament. But he actually did! Roshi thought this to himself, when he (disguised as Jackie Chun) meets up with Goku and co. at the 22nd Tournament. It's in volume 10.

[Mystic Gohan]

Obviously Roshi got stronger between the 21st and 22nd budokai. Goku got a big increase from training with Karin and then he trained after beating the red ribbon army till the 22nd budokai. Then this Tenshinhan is a rival for Goku and Master Roshi is a rival for Goku.

Goku >= Tenshinhan >= Roshi >>> Tao Pai Pai >>> Goku (Pre Karin Training) >= Master Roshi (21st budokai)

[Piccolo Daimao]

Ran-Fan's sex appeal wouldn't work on her

I dispute this.

If only, but this isn’t DB hentai world.

Yamcha and Ten (Android saga; with potential unlocked by Guru) vs. Cooler's Armored Squad

Yamcha and Tenshinhan lose hard. Even if they both managed to double their Cell arc powers, I don’t seem them even touching Coola’s Armoured Squad, especially three-on-two.

Raditz vs. Chiaotzu ( post- saiyan training )

I’d say that, because Raditz would be much closer in strength to Chaozu than Nappa was, Chaozu’s paralysis might be able to do something…but it’s still a big “might”, and who’s to say Raditz wouldn’t just kill him before he got the chance? Then again, if Chaozu got desperate, he could just self-destruct, killing them both.

(Sick) SSJ Goku vs. #19 without absorbing energy.

Gokuu was whooping #19’s ass even before the latter absorbed his energy, but it’s not as if he was doing any real damage and, fighting with all his strength, he was tiring out faster than usual. But #20 was also worried that #19 would run out of steam before he could get the chance to absorb Gokuu’s energy. I’d guess that Gokuu would win before the virus sucked up all his energy, since #19 was still far beneath him.

(Saibamen vs. "Saibamen" monsters from Movie 2 that beaten Gohan up before they all were destroyed by Piccolo.

The Biomen jumped Gohan off-guard and were later wrecked by Muten Roushi, while the Saibaimen rivalled Raditz. The Saibaimen would slaughter the Biomen.