"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Wezenheim]

I'd think it was boring if U6 Saiyans were evil, honestly. There's nothing evil Saiyans could add to the story that we haven't seen before. If nothing else, this makes for decent world building.

[Zelvin]

Still wish we had some tails. I doubt Trunks and Goten just never had them. I always surmised that Vegeta, Bulma and Chi Chi just had them surgically removed so they wouldnt' grow back shortly after birth. Even without the moon there are still ways to replicate the effect of blutz waves, so it could've been done as a precaution. Same with Pan. After all, we never got a scene of them being born. We just see them months or years later. So we never knew if they had tails at birth. Even Pan is already months old by the time we see her a baby.

Far as the Saiyans from Salada evolving passed needing their tails, it's certainly not impossible. It's like an appendix. Other parts of the body fulfilled the same role, so it was no longer needed. Saiyans on Salada may have removed the moon to prevent unwanted transformations by the young, learned to control their power, got stronger and became Super Saiyans or enough of them did that after so many generations, their tails either got smaller or were born without them, as the boon from the tail wasn't necessary anymore or was replaced by other abilities.

[FortuneSSJ]

Am I the only one who finds it absolutely stupid that they're going out of their way to establish the saiyan race as a "good" one that just happened to include some bad apples who won out? I hate the words "good" and "evil" in this context.

Super is likely going to pussify the entire race.

Well if Toriyama didn't come aboard in BOG, Toei Beerus would turn out to be a Lizard who infects people with evil. And be the reason why the Saiyan race got their ruthless characteristics, meaning they were never evil. So yeah, we're that close.

But now we're in another universe. A different approach is welcome.

[batistabus]

Those little bios that came together with the character designs gave clues, Hit is dangerous

It says Hit's name suggests danger, not that he's actually dangerous. I doubt we'll be seeing any complete frauds since I don't think that could sneak by Champa/Vados, but in Dragon Ball if it looks, walks, and sounds like a duck...it's probably a goose.

Also, I'm not sure why people are assuming that Cabba is a kid. He seems to act and be treated as an adult, and his appearance wouldn't be strange by Toriyama's recent standards.

[Lord Beerus]

I'd think it was boring if U6 Saiyans were evil, honestly. There's nothing evil Saiyans could add to the story that we haven't seen before. If nothing else, this makes for decent world building.

Yeah, the whole "Every Saiyan is evil" schtick has become old hat. It's been done to death and has gotten stale quite honestly. I'm glad that not every Saiyan is being painted with the same brush in every Universe they exist in because it provides more of an unique intrigue into how Universe 6 will be developed.

[phattangent]

But now we're in another universe. A different approach is welcome.

Agreed. It's a perfect excuse to take things in a different direction, both past and present. I'm excited as we move into Super's future.

[Zelvin]

But now we're in another universe. A different approach is welcome.

Agreed. It's a perfect excuse to take things in a different direction, both past and present. I'm excited as we move into Super's future.

I'd also like to see what happened to the rest of U7 and explore it more. Frankly, I believe we should've done that first. We don't really see much with Jaco, and Freeza was supposedly in control of much of the Northern Galaxy with Ginga, the Galactic King, mainly controlling the other half. So what happened to everything after Freeza and Cold died initially? That would've been nice to explore. What about all the worlds and species that were subjugated and/or sold off? RoF only gave us what happened to the Freeza Army with them splintering off and causing infighting. But we really never explored the rest of the universe itself.

Maybe after this tournament all the SDB's get reassigned and the crew has to find them again in Universe 7 which leads to a bigger exploration of the Dragon Ball universe, as opposed to just ditzing around in U6 to meet more Saiyans.

[dbzfan7]

Well another universe of good saiyans does sound like fan fiction honestly. Not much different than more saiyans who escaped Vegeta's destruction and became pure good guys....oh wait they did do something like that with Tarble (At least he ain't incredibly super powerful like other out of nowhere relatives usually are in fanfiction). I'd have much rather they just be neutral. Still barbaric, but not overall conquerors. Not inherently evil, but not exactly good. As a reminder I recall Vegeta was considered especially cruel and evil, and they don't have to be that bad. They can be warriors with some pride an honour, without being do gooders. Doesn't help that recent stuff, especially with Minus, has been giving the idea that the saiyans are being pacified. Heck Toei's original draft seems to further support they "might" be doing that intentionally. Thankfully we didn't get an evil Beerus who made saiyans evil, as that'd have been the absolute worst thing of all.

[phattangent]

Maybe after this tournament all the SDB's get reassigned and the crew has to find them again in Universe 7 which leads to a bigger exploration of the Dragon Ball universe, as opposed to just ditzing around in U6 to meet more Saiyans.

That sounds like a cool idea. Although, I wonder if further exploration of U7 would be better suited for a Jaco spin-off series or something?

[Zelvin]

That sounds like a cool idea. Although, I wonder if further exploration of U7 would be better suited for a Jaco spin-off series or something?

Thing is, we know Jaco is a giant pussy. And his recommendation for Earth after finding Saiyans still alive there was to fire a planet-busting missile at it in order to eliminate them and wipe the Saiyans out for good. He really wouldn't make a good character to do side-stuff if finding out there's dangerously strong people on other worlds, since the Galactic Patrolman are all pushovers and that'd be their reaction and solution to any major problem. At first it was funny to have Bulma smack him for it and break his cameras, but if that's standard policy for the GP to just wipe out a planet full of innocents just because someone is living there that's too strong, then it'd make for a terrible side-story.

Maybe the one thing GT did right outside of SS4 design (which was Toriyama anyway), was trying to explore the rest of the universe while searching for the Dragon Balls. They failed fantastically at making the story work, but it was an idea that could work much better in Super now that there is a reason for it. We could find remnants of Freeza's old army that didn't participate in the infighting for control and went on to live different lives, or became more honest people and decided to protect their own homeworlds or other works to make up for the tragedies they were forced to commit. There's so much that can be done that just isn't being explored.

[Noah]

The Saiyans of U6 are based on a planet called "Salad". In U7, the Saiyans lived there too before it was destroyed by "internal discord". After Planet Salad's destruction, the U7 Saiyans stole another planet and named it "Planet Vegeta".

I didn't understand this part much, so U6 Saiyans and U7 Saiyans had a meet in some point of the story? How?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

The Saiyans of U6 are based on a planet called "Salad". In U7, the Saiyans lived there too before it was destroyed by "internal discord". After Planet Salad's destruction, the U7 Saiyans stole another planet and named it "Planet Vegeta".

I didn't understand this part much, so U6 Saiyans and U7 Saiyans had a meet in some point of the story? How?

The Saiyans in both universes lived on their own Planet Salad.
Universe 6's Saiyans were good and the planet still exists.
Universe 7's Saiyans destroyed their planet via something similar to a civil war (perhaps the Super Saiyan God battle), and so they moved to Plant and eventually named it Vegeta.

[LightBing]

Well another universe of good saiyans does sound like fan fiction honestly. Not much different than more saiyans who escaped Vegeta's destruction and became pure good guys....oh wait they did do something like that with Tarble (At least he ain't incredibly super powerful like other out of nowhere relatives usually are in fanfiction). I'd have much rather they just be neutral. Still barbaric, but not overall conquerors. Not inherently evil, but not exactly good. As a reminder I recall Vegeta was considered especially cruel and evil, and they don't have to be that bad. They can be warriors with some pride an honour, without being do gooders. Doesn't help that recent stuff, especially with Minus, has been giving the idea that the saiyans are being pacified. Heck Toei's original draft seems to further support they "might" be doing that intentionally. Thankfully we didn't get an evil Beerus who made saiyans evil, as that'd have been the absolute worst thing of all.

You've described Minus Bardock. He has morals for the context of his life, a nine-to-five job of genocides. He probably didn't even have dental insurance, Freeza was an asshole.

Recent material only said that not all Saiyans are like Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa. The small percentage we witnessed from thousands who existed. What Minus did and it's being done now is just common sense. We can't expect a whole race of people to be the same.
Besides we only know one good Saiyan. They are hired to fight evil, so the fighting characteristic still stands (which is what I most associate with Saiyans, not evilness). If they fight evil without killing anyone and their society is 100% "good", that's contradictory and swinging to one side.

However I just don't see the recent arguments. I just understand the author telling us that, there are good pure Saiyans that aren't Goku.

[dbzfan7]

Well another universe of good saiyans does sound like fan fiction honestly. Not much different than more saiyans who escaped Vegeta's destruction and became pure good guys....oh wait they did do something like that with Tarble (At least he ain't incredibly super powerful like other out of nowhere relatives usually are in fanfiction). I'd have much rather they just be neutral. Still barbaric, but not overall conquerors. Not inherently evil, but not exactly good. As a reminder I recall Vegeta was considered especially cruel and evil, and they don't have to be that bad. They can be warriors with some pride an honour, without being do gooders. Doesn't help that recent stuff, especially with Minus, has been giving the idea that the saiyans are being pacified. Heck Toei's original draft seems to further support they "might" be doing that intentionally. Thankfully we didn't get an evil Beerus who made saiyans evil, as that'd have been the absolute worst thing of all.

You've described Minus Bardock. He has morals for the context of his life, a nine-to-five job of genocides. He probably didn't even have dental insurance, Freeza was an asshole.

Recent material only said that not all Saiyans are like Raditz, Vegeta and Nappa. The small percentage we witnessed from thousands who existed. What Minus did and it's being done now is just common sense. We can't expect a whole race of people to be the same.
Besides we only know one good Saiyan. They are hired to fight evil, so the fighting characteristic still stands (which is what I most associate with Saiyans, not evilness). If they fight evil without killing anyone and their society is 100% "good", that's contradictory and swinging to one side.

However I just don't see the recent arguments. I just understand the author telling us that, there are good pure Saiyans that aren't Goku.

Minus Bardock is killing evil looking creatures, and has a lot more love and care for his family despite him not giving a crap in earlier much better portrayals. That's what the average saiyan should be. Heck them going to planets for worthy foes is more saiyan like then hired do gooders. Raditz and Nappa are essentially the average saiyan. As well as original Bardock. Vegeta was the only psycho among the saiyans who was extremely cold blooded by their standards.

We're essentially being told all of the U6 saiyans are good, so they are essentially the same. The saiyans being evil bastards is what makes them interesting. Even more pacifying and we'll hit more Superman levels than we already have with Bard El. The more good saiyans there are, the less special of a case Goku is.

[Noah]

The Saiyans in both universes lived on their own Planet Salad.
Universe 6's Saiyans were good and the planet still exists.
Universe 7's Saiyans destroyed their planet via something similar to a civil war (perhaps the Super Saiyan God battle), and so they moved to Plant and eventually named it Vegeta.

Oh, thank you! It's much clear for me now, so Salad is actually Saiyans home planet, interesting I guess.

[SonsOfUlron21]

Damn Goku vs Winnie the Pooh is kind of Badass.

[LightBing]

Minus Bardock is killing evil looking creatures, and has a lot more love and care for his family despite him not giving a crap in earlier much better portrayals. That's what the average saiyan should be. Heck them going to planets for worthy foes is more saiyan like then hired do gooders. Raditz and Nappa are essentially the average saiyan. As well as original Bardock. Vegeta was the only psycho among the saiyans who was extremely cold blooded by their standards.

We're essentially being told all of the U6 saiyans are good, so they are essentially the same. The saiyans being evil bastards is what makes them interesting. Even more pacifying and we'll hit more Superman levels than we already have with Bard El. The more good saiyans there are, the less special of a case Goku is.

Bardock and his team are killing creatures while the narrations reads "The warrior race of the Saiyans, under the evil emperor Freeza, fight day and night to obtain many planets through force."
Gine is surprised by Bardock's behavior telling us "it is not like a Saiyan to worry about his children".
Minus tell us, Saiyans are mostly evil but there's some out-liners, that's all story tell us.

Super told us that contrary to our Universe, their Saiyans still live in their original planet and don't steal planets. Because apparently there, the civil war didn't happen causing the destruction of the planet and subsequent migration to Plant/Vegeta.

I see no indication of what you said. Both Universes are being portrayed as having the same people, with two different status quo. To make a real-world comparison: in one the Nazis won the War, in the other they lost. But everybody still likes fighting in the name of "justice", because people are people.

[Hellspawn28]

I hate to break it to you but... GT is dead man.

Yeah since I don't think Toei is thinking about GT when making Super. The show has not been relevant since 1997. Sure it still appears in Heroes, but the show has not been relevant in ages. Most people in Japan watching Super on TV was not born when GT was airing and the people did saw GT in 1996-1997 probably forgotten about it. They are sticking on what's current and new to this generation.

[dbzfan7]

Minus Bardock is killing evil looking creatures, and has a lot more love and care for his family despite him not giving a crap in earlier much better portrayals. That's what the average saiyan should be. Heck them going to planets for worthy foes is more saiyan like then hired do gooders. Raditz and Nappa are essentially the average saiyan. As well as original Bardock. Vegeta was the only psycho among the saiyans who was extremely cold blooded by their standards.

We're essentially being told all of the U6 saiyans are good, so they are essentially the same. The saiyans being evil bastards is what makes them interesting. Even more pacifying and we'll hit more Superman levels than we already have with Bard El. The more good saiyans there are, the less special of a case Goku is.

Bardock and his team are killing creatures while the narrations reads "The warrior race of the Saiyans, under the evil emperor Freeza, fight day and night to obtain many planets through force."
Gine is surprised by Bardock's behavior telling us "it is not like a Saiyan to worry about his children".
Minus tell us, Saiyans are mostly evil but there's some out-liners, that's all story tell us.

Super told us that contrary to our Universe, their Saiyans still live in their original planet and don't steal planets. Because apparently there, the civil war didn't happen causing the destruction of the planet and subsequent migration to Plant/Vegeta.

I see no indication of what you said. Both Universes are being portrayed as having the same people, with two different status quo. To make a real-world comparison: in one the Nazis won the War, in the other they lost. But everybody still likes fighting in the name of "justice", because people are people.

And it looks like they're beating up evil mindless monsters. Look at how they're designed. Look at their expression. If anything Minus tells me, Freeza is the only real evil, while the saiyans aren't really labelled as evil but simply henchman. Look at the people Vegeta and Raditz killed, all evil looking monsters. Beerus feels more like a saiyan than they do.

That line doesn't mean a damn thing. Bardock shouldn't be like that period. He couldn't give a flying fuck about Goku because he was weak. Raditz was also willing to kill his brother if he was gonna be useless to him. He'd be the same with Gine. New Bardock is a whole other person, just like how he was in that terrible EOB special where they also pacify him. Other material also pacifies him ala DBO and Heroes. Don't look at the moon as that'd be bad for some reason. Raditz is the actual true anomaly in the family. I guess he must have hit his head to become more evil by mistake. Bar El is an uninteresting bore.

They're a bunch of do-gooders in universe 6. I can't imagine saiyans listening to anyone but themselves. They especially are not the type to go be peace keepers. It's stupid. Saiyans don't fight for justice. They don't give a shit about that. They only care about the thrill of battle and the next challenge. They don't care about being rulers either. They just want to keep on fighting to satisfy their fighting, brutish nature. They have been bastards since they existed according to the Super Exciting Guide. Even before Freeza took over they went to other planets to plunder and kill. So I gotta take back my earlier statement. They'd be fucking monsters with or without Freeza, making U6 dumber.

[Hellspawn28]

I'd think it was boring if U6 Saiyans were evil, honestly. There's nothing evil Saiyans could add to the story that we haven't seen before. If nothing else, this makes for decent world building.

I agree. People want evil saiyans and we would just get a rehash of Radditz or Broli if that happen.