Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:28 am

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Not to get off topic, but does anyone have screenshots of the Bebop Blurays? I am really looking forward to getting it but if it ends up anything like these DBZ season sets...yeah...
UK's BDs have the original Japanese credits but don't expect the same for the FUNimation CB BDs.
MarcFBR wrote:Ehhhhhh.... it's so minor that in many examples it's not even easy to pick out in a screencap. In motion on TV, it's doubtful people would notice it except in a handful of rare cases.
People use HDTVs nowadays so it's not that hard to tell when a scene is compressed or not depending on its picture quality.

For example the Soul Eater DVDs look really nice upscaled on an HDTV.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by Ajay » Sun Feb 09, 2014 10:45 am

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Not to get off topic, but does anyone have screenshots of the Bebop Blurays? I am really looking forward to getting it but if it ends up anything like these DBZ season sets...yeah...
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:16 am

AjayLikesGaming wrote:
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Not to get off topic, but does anyone have screenshots of the Bebop Blurays? I am really looking forward to getting it but if it ends up anything like these DBZ season sets...yeah...
Here's an album of full-res screenshots - http://minus.com/mbswD81iCthi6y

Whoo..not nearly as bad as I thought it may have been. Id be ok if it looks like that in the US release thought I forget if this bluray is based off the original version of the anime, or the remastering it got between the original and the bluray.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by MarcFBR » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:02 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:
MarcFBR wrote:Ehhhhhh.... it's so minor that in many examples it's not even easy to pick out in a screencap. In motion on TV, it's doubtful people would notice it except in a handful of rare cases.
People use HDTVs nowadays so it's not that hard to tell when a scene is compressed or not depending on its picture quality.

For example the Soul Eater DVDs look really nice upscaled on an HDTV.
So to be clear... you are arguing it's easy to tell when a Blu-ray is compressed slightly more than another Blu-ray on a modern TV.... but you are saying DVDs (which are far lower in resolution, and compressed FAR more) look awesome on the same TV?
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by dbboxkaifan » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:09 pm

No I was comparing the Dragon Box Z to SE on an HDTV nothing to do with Blu-rays.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by MarcFBR » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:26 pm

dbboxkaifan wrote:No I was comparing the Dragon Box Z to SE on an HDTV nothing to do with Blu-rays.
Thought you moved on to Bebop, but fair enough.

The Dboxes scale as nice as any other older animated series with heavy grain. My guess while some people could pick out Dbox stuff in screencaps, few could pick it out after upscaling in motion.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by Landcross » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:01 am

I signed up just to weigh in on this Blu Ray release. I've got releases from Pioneer discs thru Dragon Boxes, a scattershot collection of all different things over the past 13 or so years. While I absolutely would have preferred these new Blu Rays to be in 4:3, they're not the devil incarnate. I have the first season, and the cropping is waaaay better than what was done on the Orange Bricks. As far as the ultra bright colors and cleanness, I'm sorry, but that looks GOOD...it's like when DVD came out, I didn't complain that they looked too clean, and that I missed wavy lines. I've got enough DVD's that look like the broadcast did, I have no problem with giving the series a go looking the way it's never looked before. I've never seen so many proponents of excessive film grain before now.

Something else to consider. The original manga had several rectangular panels, which makes re-framed shots occasionally resemble Toriyama's original panel.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by plebz » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:44 am

I've been wondering something, so much that I had to join to ask. I am not defending the Orange Bricks, but I have noticed that while the top seems to be cut off a bit (from when it was cropped to 16:9), the sides actually have MORE footage than the 4:3 Dragon Box. So, my question is, why is this, and is this the case with the blu-rays as well? I've been thinking about picking them up at some point (I would go with the level sets, but those were discontinued) so cropped is now my only option.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by MarcFBR » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:03 am

plebz wrote:I've been wondering something, so much that I had to join to ask. I am not defending the Orange Bricks, but I have noticed that while the top seems to be cut off a bit (from when it was cropped to 16:9), the sides actually have MORE footage than the 4:3 Dragon Box. So, my question is, why is this, and is this the case with the blu-rays as well? I've been thinking about picking them up at some point (I would go with the level sets, but those were discontinued) so cropped is now my only option.
I'll try and explain without using terminology that might confuse.

Most film stock is wider than 4:3 (the 'legacy' TV aspect ratio.)

Because of this, animation (and live action) that was recorded to film stock instead of video often has extra material on the side (a background or character frame 'photographed' to the 35mm wouldn't be drawn to the exact 4:3, as things might have to be moved, or something might have to be reused later, etc.)

So you end up with more on the sides. Sometimes this is fully 'produced' content (with the animation finished) other times stuff fades away as people stopped drawing (this is easier to spot in 4:3 releases of movies that were drawn 4:3, but intended to be shown 16:9, characters feet missing on the bottom etc.)

In the cast of Funi's DVDs and BDs for DBZ, since they crop the top and bottom, they can capture this extra side material without pulling the 'camera' back (which would have blank space on the top and bottom) since that space will be cropped out and not part of the image.

For a show like say, Buffy, it means a few foreign DVDs actually filmed it fully as if it were a film, and they have widescreen DVDs despite the creators openly not wanting that to happen(and the show wasn't produced as such, so you have equipment in shots, and occasionally even crew.)

For a show like Friends, you had some of the crew go back later and do a native widescreen version of that, occasionally cleaning up gunk on the sides to do a nice widescreen version (which they actually cleaned up again after missing some stuff the first time.)

In the case of DBZ using that extra space on the side means we get some extra little bits of backgrounds and occasionally part of an arm.

I bring up the other examples not because they have filmstock that matches DBZs, they don't, they have much nicer film masters that could be adapted to widescreen relatively 'simply', at least as far as aspect ratio goes, while DBZs filmstock was much closer to 1.33 (the 4:3 ratio used for legacy TV content.)

Here is an image of DBZ filmstock just to show you.- http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq29 ... 803r4m.jpg

And to have it explained by people who actually had to deal with this type of film stock, here is an explanation why despite having high quality filmstock, the Star Trek TNG BDs are not widescreen.- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQtWeor58rU
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by plebz » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:13 am

Interesting, my thought was someone went back and re-animated the sides. So, if anything, minor work was done to complete the sides, correct? So, the cropping would be a non-issue if this is the case because you gain some footage but also lose some footage. I guess the next question is, how do the Level sets, the Dragon Box and the current blu-ray sets compare?

On an unrelated note, I really hope we see Dragon Ball in HD eventually. I much prefer the original series to Z and GT

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by MarcFBR » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:21 am

plebz wrote:Interesting, my thought was someone went back and re-animated the sides. So, if anything, minor work was done to complete the sides, correct?
Nope, all information that was on the original filmstock. To my knowledge there has been no touching up of it for DBZ on BD (in DBZ Kai as I recall Toei DID occasionally add to the sides.)
So, the cropping would be a non-issue if this is the case because you gain some footage but also lose some footage. I guess the next question is, how do the Level sets, the Dragon Box and the current blu-ray sets compare?
The information you lose is potentially important, and how the shots were intended to look. While the extra information at the side was largely expected to never be seen.

As far as accuracy, the DBoxes are as close as we have to the show 'as it was meant.' They have some color issues, but is the most accurate way to see it. As they aren't available and expensive to track down it isn't really reasonable as far as recommendations go.

The Level sets were interesting. Despite having lower overall quality filmstock, the colors seemed to have held up better overall than the better quality stock used on the Dboxes. There were some darkness issues that caused an effect known as 'black crush' (where detail vanishes into blackness because everything is overly dark.) Had they continued it's likely they would have been remembered as being better than the Dboxes (at least in my opinion.)

The Season sets are heavily filtered to attempt to emulate the look of modern animation. Again we have cropping, but the framing overall is better than the old orange brick DVD sets. Business wise, this was likely the right call for Funimation to make, even if it's not necessarily what DBZ fans wanted to see.

If you want to buy the series whole, your choices are basically the old orange brick DVDs or the new season BDs. I'd go with the BDs, as if you have the ability to not get hung up on the specific issues they have, you'll likely enjoy it (as an example, while I understand the business reasons for Funi doing the season sets as they have, I have yet to actually attempt to watch it.)
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by plebz » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:31 am

Are there any instances in the new season sets or the orange bricks where the cropping cut out important information? To me, losing part of the top but gaining part of the sides is a bit of a non-issue since you gain some but also lose some. If it was an actual crop of just the 4:3 stream, like you would see when you force 16:9 in a media player, then it would be a serious problem since there is pure loss and no gain, but with gain and loss, I can't be bothered by the 16:9

I noticed serious saturation problems with the Orange Bricks, which was my biggest problem. It looked disgusting. Are the colors better in the new releases?

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by MarcFBR » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:35 am

plebz wrote:Are there any instances in the new season sets or the orange bricks where the cropping cut out important information? To me, losing part of the top but gaining part of the sides is a bit of a non-issue since you gain some but also lose some. If it was an actual crop of just the 4:3 stream, like you would see when you force 16:9 in a media player, then it would be a serious problem since there is pure loss and no gain, but with gain and loss, I can't be bothered by the 16:9
A favorite of mine from the orange bricks, as posted by metalwario64
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v307/ ... SONEX2.png

For all intents and purposes, the material on the sides is minor enough that in most cases, you can pretend there isn't anything new there, while at least on the orange bricks, important stuff gets cropped out plenty (this seems to be less an issue on the BD sets based on screencaps, but as I mentioned, I haven't watched it.)

I noticed serious saturation problems with the Orange Bricks, which was my biggest problem. It looked disgusting. Are the colors better in the new releases?
I'd say the colors are saturated heavily on the new sets, but it's sort of done that way on purpose. Plenty seem to hate it, and plenty seem to like it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by plebz » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:41 am

Thanks for the screenshot. I guess the easiest way to ask would be, does the release look like Kai or DBZ? Maybe I should just slowly buy the Dragon Boxes over other releases since I am a fan of the, hm, "charm" of the traditional art style when it comes to the animation, especially when compared to Kai, and I really don't think it is as simple as HD vs SD.

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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by MarcFBR » Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:50 am

plebz wrote:Thanks for the screenshot. I guess the easiest way to ask would be, does the release look like Kai or DBZ?
Neither honestly. They went and tried to make it look more like a modern show (attempts at vivid colors, etc.) Toei generally say they tried to make Kai look modern, but it never really looked that way to me (the colors in Kai always reminded me a bit more of a softer pallette, closer to pastels, while you modern shonen shows tend to use bright vivid colors.)
Maybe I should just slowly buy the Dragon Boxes over other releases since I am a fan of the, hm, "charm" of the traditional art style when it comes to the animation, especially when compared to Kai, and I really don't think it is as simple as HD vs SD.
You could, you'll definitely be paying for it though. And the argument does come up about just how good relatively low quality 80s animation put to disk from 16mm looks anyways once you get to 1080p and Blu-ray.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by samuraix123 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:06 am

Ugh...I cannot believe this issue hasn't been fixed yet. seeing those prices makes me sick! Someone did post 1 for $27 which is funny because those others ain't going to move an inch unless they have too! someone is hosting 1 up for $9,999.98! Dude should be banned. :lol: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by dbboxkaifan » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:09 am

samuraix123 wrote:Ugh...I cannot believe this issue hasn't been fixed yet. seeing those prices makes me sick! Someone did post 1 for $27 which is funny because those others ain't going to move an inch unless they have too! someone is hosting 1 up for $9,999.98! Dude should be banned. :lol: http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... dition=new
Look at their feedback score they can't be banned for asking that price, they'd need to do something shoddy in order to be punished.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by samuraix123 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:12 am

It's shaddy enough though! Amazon knows nobody is going to give those insane prices. and I'm pretty sure the people that are selling it know it too. That's why I say I hate people that do stuff like this because all it does is destroy the markets. those things are nowhere near worth what some people are asking. heck, I wouldn't give 300 dollars for Dragon-box the Movies because it's simply not worth it.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by ect5150 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:42 pm

samuraix123 wrote:It's shaddy enough though! Amazon knows nobody is going to give those insane prices. and I'm pretty sure the people that are selling it know it too. That's why I say I hate people that do stuff like this because all it does is destroy the markets. those things are nowhere near worth what some people are asking. heck, I wouldn't give 300 dollars for Dragon-box the Movies because it's simply not worth it.
Caveat emptor, guys!

$300 for Dbox the Movies averages out to be $17 per movie. So, while it is on the high side for a collection, you could easily do worse.
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Re: Dragon Ball Z "Seasons" On Blu-ray: News & Discussion

Post by RocktheDragon » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:47 pm

ect5150 wrote:
samuraix123 wrote:It's shaddy enough though! Amazon knows nobody is going to give those insane prices. and I'm pretty sure the people that are selling it know it too. That's why I say I hate people that do stuff like this because all it does is destroy the markets. those things are nowhere near worth what some people are asking. heck, I wouldn't give 300 dollars for Dragon-box the Movies because it's simply not worth it.
Caveat emptor, guys!

$300 for Dbox the Movies averages out to be $17 per movie. So, while it is on the high side for a collection, you could easily do worse.
When you put it that way 17 dollars a film really isn't that bad. Maybe I should give that release another look if I find an auction that's underway. :think:
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