"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[SansrivaaL]

Agree'd with the Cell part as well as the Piccolo part, Piccolo's gain doesnt shaft anything, that is until the inevitable ep 90 where Piccolo may choke the life out of SSJB Goku.
About F.Trunks... serves that MF right! I enjoy the pain he should be dealing with right now, I believe he goes full mental on the new timeline and is terrorizing everyone there.

[SansrivaaL]

You are a fan like me, you don't need to be biased about it just because it's Gohan.

Base Goku power is a unsolved mystery in Super yet, some say he is stronger as a SSJ God and others says he is just a little bit stronger than Boo Arc counterpart (which don't make sense for me IMO)

Like dbzfan7 said above it doesn't make sense that they made a huge deal about reaching the level of Gods so to now everyone can get the same much more easily, they spent a long time training with Whis to achieve this kinda level. We don't see any special method is just a usual training in the wasteland between Gohan and Piccolo and was more efficient than training in RoSaT or with Whis you may like it but I think it is bullcrap, sorry

TBH none of those 8 members should even come close to the power of SSJB that Goku and Vegeta has.... just be happy that its Goku thats the one testing them out as we can give a headcannon reason that "He. Is. Holding. Back" because in Vegeta's case he woulda murdered all of them.

[dbzfan7]

17 and 18 are the only enhanced humans in the show their potential is unique compared to the rest,Cell wasn't that special again because he needed people to get stronger he needed to absorb 17 and 18,Toriyama said that 17 and 18 can get stronger if they trained which is what 17 did and as far as we know we have no idea about how much he trained or how he trained moreover we have no idea what kind of gains an artificial human who doesn't need to sleep nor eat,have unlimited stamina and energy can obtain so you can't call it bs considering we don't even know their limits nor their whole capacity,it was already mentioned in the manga that 17 was power focused this power boost isn't out of no where especially that it's been over a decade.

Cell was the ultimate creation of Gero. If it were the other way around, Gero would have just not bothered with him. That's why he made Cell. He's labeled the ultimate artificial human for a reason.

You're missing the point entirely. Set up, build up, pay off. They are missing the first 2. 17 is the case of jumping right into a pay off. If they set up and built him up properly in the series itself, there would be no problem. But they didn't. They threw a pay off at him. If everyone was done this way, Gohan would basically be saying what I just said. No set up, no build up, just saying he got real good from training somehow.

Yes I can call bullshit because none of it is set up or built up properly. It's never been a thing until they literally went "Hey did you guys know Freeza and 17 are really awesome...no really." I don't even expect a long arc for them, but they did nothing. I have no issue with them powering up, but not to such a massive degree that's way out of left field. Hell Piccolo is handled so much better than Freeza and 17 combined.

Again 17's potential could stand on it's own,he had over a decade to work on it,don't compare him to Cell when Cell himself needed him to get stronger,Gohan already had his potential unlocked many times and it doesn't make sense for him to come close to Goku and Vegeta's level for the simple reason he didn't train with Whis,at least 17 is not a saiyan but Gohan is a saiyan and he always have that power up that surpasses Goku and Vegeta and why ? because he's Gohan. at least make him train with Whis in the time chamber or something like that.

I can compare him to Cell as Cell is the Ultimate Artifical Human. This was Gero's ultimate creation. Hell by the recent logic, Cell should be waaaaay stronger than 17 since he hasn't trained and has the cells of all the best warriors. If anything the new logic dictates he'd be the true monster if he tried.

Potential that was again, never stated anywhere in the original serialization, and just came up just cause. This is literally right in line with Dragon Ball Heroes level of explanations. Also Gohan once more had himself established. 17 did not. Gohan has always been established as having more potential than Goku. Always. I do agree he should be training with Whis, no denying that. 17 you are basing on is nothing but vague second hand information. That does not at all cover the basis of a proper set up, build up, and pay off. I am dealing with what the series has built up and told us over the course of years. The information you are going by is mere what if's, and second hand information that supports my point that Super is really shit at giving people proper set up and build up for their power boosts.

Agree'd with the Cell part as well as the Piccolo part, Piccolo's gain doesnt shaft anything, that is until the inevitable ep 90 where Piccolo may choke the life out of SSJB Goku.
About F.Trunks... serves that MF right! I enjoy the pain he should be dealing with right now, I believe he goes full mental on the new timeline and is terrorizing everyone there.

It is down right surprising how Piccolo is handled so much better than Freeza and 17. He has the same random gains, but within the realm of reason and not trying to forcibly make him a special snowflake. It's even more surprising Gohan is getting any build up and set up at all. By how Super has done it, I'm not shocked they didn't just have him magically go Super Saiyan Blue off screen and say what everyone else has said. "Lol I trained off screen and am now super special awesome sauce again."

[TheMathemagician]

You are a fan like me, you don't need to be biased about it just because it's Gohan.

Base Goku power is a unsolved mystery in Super yet, some say he is stronger as a SSJ God and others says he is just a little bit stronger than Boo Arc counterpart (which don't make sense for me IMO)

Like dbzfan7 said above it doesn't make sense that they made a huge deal about reaching the level of Gods so to now everyone can get the same much more easily, they spent a long time training with Whis to achieve this kinda level. We don't see any special method is just a usual training in the wasteland between Gohan and Piccolo and was more efficient than training in RoSaT or with Whis you may like it but I think it is bullcrap, sorry

TBH none of those 8 members should even come close to the power of SSJB that Goku and Vegeta has.... just be happy that its Goku thats the one testing them out as we can give a headcannon reason that "He. Is. Holding. Back" because in Vegeta's case he woulda murdered all of them.

Is it really headcanon when there are statements and or actions that show and or heavily imply that he's holding back though?

[Ki Breaker]

You are a fan like me, you don't need to be biased about it just because it's Gohan.

I may be, but I am never biased to the point of denying facts..
Does Gohan's reaching god levels training with piccolo make all the sense it needs to? No.. but is it somewhat explain able? Yes..
And I just provided you with the explanation I chose to go with, that's all we can do until it's stated explicitly in the show..

Gohan does, however help me digest this plot driven Powerup to a certain degree..
Ans it's just because the future entertainment is supposed to cancel out this present bullshit.. And watching gohan is entertaining to me.. Same with roshi as well

[SansrivaaL]

You are a fan like me, you don't need to be biased about it just because it's Gohan.

Base Goku power is a unsolved mystery in Super yet, some say he is stronger as a SSJ God and others says he is just a little bit stronger than Boo Arc counterpart (which don't make sense for me IMO)

Like dbzfan7 said above it doesn't make sense that they made a huge deal about reaching the level of Gods so to now everyone can get the same much more easily, they spent a long time training with Whis to achieve this kinda level. We don't see any special method is just a usual training in the wasteland between Gohan and Piccolo and was more efficient than training in RoSaT or with Whis you may like it but I think it is bullcrap, sorry

TBH none of those 8 members should even come close to the power of SSJB that Goku and Vegeta has.... just be happy that its Goku thats the one testing them out as we can give a headcannon reason that "He. Is. Holding. Back" because in Vegeta's case he woulda murdered all of them.

Is it really headcanon when there are statements and or actions that show and or heavily imply that he's holding back though?

Meant holding back by a lot, like say he's using around .01% of his power because if he wasnt then I dont know how the hell Krillin was able to push his wave back and I dont even know what the reason for that was. Same can be said with 17 and what may happen to Gohan this ep 90, I am excited and scared at the same time because I dont want my favorite character pulling a Future Trunks BS that made me hate the character.

[Ki Breaker]

I am excited and scared at the same time because I dont want my favorite character pulling a Future Trunks BS that made me hate the character.

It's all fun and games until someone pulls a future trunks then it's fun and fuck this character

[lord godly da don]

If Gohan is anywhere near the power of Goku without a god transformation it's a total ass pull just like trunks I just want people to stop being hypocrite if you have a problem with power scaling consistency don't change up because it's your favorite character getting a ass pull

My biggest problem with the gohan situation is that it could easily be handled by saying him and piccolo went into the RoSaT for a hour or two (and I hope that is what happens) but if not it's bad writing point blank period

If you like it ok but don't be on here bitching when other characters get the same treatment
and as a gohan fan I was happy with gohan just being involved I didn't need or even want him to surpass Goku and vegeta for me to enjoy his comeback but even the way they handled his full potential being unlocked felt bs it's like I have to trade good writing for relevance

[TheMathemagician]

TBH none of those 8 members should even come close to the power of SSJB that Goku and Vegeta has.... just be happy that its Goku thats the one testing them out as we can give a headcannon reason that "He. Is. Holding. Back" because in Vegeta's case he woulda murdered all of them.

Is it really headcanon when there are statements and or actions that show and or heavily imply that he's holding back though?

Meant holding back by a lot, like say he's using around .01% of his power because if he wasnt then I dont know how the hell Krillin was able to push his wave back and I dont even know what the reason for that was. Same can be said with 17 and what may happen to Gohan this ep 90, I am excited and scared at the same time because I dont want my favorite character pulling a Future Trunks BS that made me hate the character.

Yeah, I'm really on the fence with Gohan. On one hand, I'm really excited about his role in this saga and want to see where it goes. On the other, the possibility of him surpassing Goku's current SSB level in less than a day would be pretty bad writing imo.

If Gohan is anywhere near the power of Goku without a god transformation it's a total ass pull just like trunks I just want people to stop being hypocrite if you have a problem with power scaling consistency don't change up because it's your favorite character getting a ass pull

My biggest problem with the gohan situation is that it could easily be handled by saying him and piccolo went into the RoSaT for a hour or two (and I hope that is what happens) but if not it's bad writing point blank period

If you like it ok but don't be on here bitching when other characters get the same treatment
and as a gohan fan I was happy with gohan just being involved I didn't need or even want him to surpass Goku and vegeta for me to enjoy his comeback but even the way they handled his full potential being unlocked felt bs it's like I have to trade good writing for relevance

Oh I personally don't care who ends up stronger than who. I just want a believable explanation.

[dbzfan7]

TBH none of those 8 members should even come close to the power of SSJB that Goku and Vegeta has.... just be happy that its Goku thats the one testing them out as we can give a headcannon reason that "He. Is. Holding. Back" because in Vegeta's case he woulda murdered all of them.

Is it really headcanon when there are statements and or actions that show and or heavily imply that he's holding back though?

Meant holding back by a lot, like say he's using around .01% of his power because if he wasnt then I dont know how the hell Krillin was able to push his wave back and I dont even know what the reason for that was. Same can be said with 17 and what may happen to Gohan this ep 90, I am excited and scared at the same time because I dont want my favorite character pulling a Future Trunks BS that made me hate the character.

I think I can sum up all of this and say, it feels incredibly artificial (pun intended). Feels right along the lines of Dragon Ball Heroes and Super Saiyan Bardock. Not done to build up characters, or have them on some semblance of a journey, but to be really cool fanservice. Just to be cool future merchandise/marketing tools.

If Gohan is anywhere near the power of Goku without a god transformation it's a total ass pull just like trunks I just want people to stop being hypocrite if you have a problem with power scaling consistency don't change up because it's your favorite character getting a ass pull

My biggest problem with the gohan situation is that it could easily be handled by saying him and piccolo went into the RoSaT for a hour or two (and I hope that is what happens) but if not it's bad writing point blank period

If you like it ok but don't be on here bitching when other characters get the same treatment
and as a gohan fan I was happy with gohan just being involved I didn't need or even want him to surpass Goku and vegeta for me to enjoy his comeback but even the way they handled his full potential being unlocked felt bs it's like I have to trade good writing for relevance

Don't know why people can't just enjoy something that's stupid. I'll be the first to enjoy and call it complete bullshit if all that happens. 1 day to get that far even for Gohan without the ROSAT is beyond stupid. I'll enjoy it, but it won't be any less horse shit to me XD

[TheMathemagician]

Is it really headcanon when there are statements and or actions that show and or heavily imply that he's holding back though?

Meant holding back by a lot, like say he's using around .01% of his power because if he wasnt then I dont know how the hell Krillin was able to push his wave back and I dont even know what the reason for that was. Same can be said with 17 and what may happen to Gohan this ep 90, I am excited and scared at the same time because I dont want my favorite character pulling a Future Trunks BS that made me hate the character.

I think I can sum up all of this and say, it feels incredibly artificial (pun intended). Feels right along the lines of Dragon Ball Heroes and Super Saiyan Bardock. Not done to build up characters, or have them on some semblance of a journey, but to be really cool fanservice. Just to be cool future merchandise/marketing tools.

Thinking about it, isn't that how Toei's always been since in the Z anime? They try to go for the cool factor above all else?

[dbzfan7]

Meant holding back by a lot, like say he's using around .01% of his power because if he wasnt then I dont know how the hell Krillin was able to push his wave back and I dont even know what the reason for that was. Same can be said with 17 and what may happen to Gohan this ep 90, I am excited and scared at the same time because I dont want my favorite character pulling a Future Trunks BS that made me hate the character.

I think I can sum up all of this and say, it feels incredibly artificial (pun intended). Feels right along the lines of Dragon Ball Heroes and Super Saiyan Bardock. Not done to build up characters, or have them on some semblance of a journey, but to be really cool fanservice. Just to be cool future merchandise/marketing tools.

Thinking about it, isn't that how Toei's always been since in the Z anime? They try to go for the cool factor above all else?

True, but there used to be some semblance of actual set up, build up, and pay off. Now there is hardly attempt at the former 2. They immediately want a pay off, so they skip setting up any sort of growth. Building up said growth. Then just want the pay off right away. We can't get this cake fully prepared, they want it now.

It's a miracle Gohan is even getting all 3. Too bad the context may end up ruining it. Still appreciate an attempt at bringing back the three laws of story telling progression.

[SansrivaaL]

It is down right surprising how Piccolo is handled so much better than Freeza and 17. He has the same random gains, but within the realm of reason and not trying to forcibly make him a special snowflake. It's even more surprising Gohan is getting any build up and set up at all. By how Super has done it, I'm not shocked they didn't just have him magically go Super Saiyan Blue off screen and say what everyone else has said. "Lol I trained off screen and am now super special awesome sauce again."

It almost feels like its because they respect the character (despite the stupid and crazy ass shit he's been through like being a babysitter, jobing, dying, made a joke etc) its nice to see that Piccolo got what he deserves, with both Freeza's and 17's were just plain last ditch effort that were needed for the plot to advance, both of them came out of nowhere, both of their so called potentials came from an interview with Freeza claiming he has potential and 17 without even saying it nor anyone in universe claiming that "oh, 17? yeah, he's the true Ultimate Android, Cell was just a misdirection" 17 who's mere purpose was supposed to help the perfect android reach its supposed power is now the perfect android, Cell must be crying.
We can wait for ep 90, who's to say Gohan didnt unlock anything? for all we know the guy probably has that double aura shit going on or may tease it that he goes double aura momentarily to hype him up more and have him say "dad, exactly how long did you train again? what was this realm of power that you didnt know existed?"

[Ki Breaker]

"dad, exactly how long did you train again? what was this realm of power that you didnt know existed?"

Goku proceeds to Kamehameha himself after that.. At least it's better than people randomly showing up saying lol noob what took you so long after he lived every moment to achieve it

[dbzfan7]

It is down right surprising how Piccolo is handled so much better than Freeza and 17. He has the same random gains, but within the realm of reason and not trying to forcibly make him a special snowflake. It's even more surprising Gohan is getting any build up and set up at all. By how Super has done it, I'm not shocked they didn't just have him magically go Super Saiyan Blue off screen and say what everyone else has said. "Lol I trained off screen and am now super special awesome sauce again."

It almost feels like its because they respect the character (despite the stupid and crazy ass shit he's been through like being a babysitter, jobing, dying, made a joke etc) its nice to see that Piccolo got what he deserves, with both Freeza's and 17's were just plain last ditch effort that were needed for the plot to advance, both of them came out of nowhere, both of their so called potentials came from an interview with Freeza claiming he has potential and 17 without even saying it nor anyone in universe claiming that "oh, 17? yeah, he's the true Ultimate Android, Cell was just a misdirection" 17 who's mere purpose was supposed to help the perfect android reach its supposed power is now the perfect android, Cell must be crying.
We can wait for ep 90, who's to say Gohan didnt unlock anything? for all we know the guy probably has that double aura shit going on or may tease it that he goes double aura momentarily to hype him up more and have him say "dad, exactly how long did you train again? what was this realm of power that you didnt know existed?"

With Piccolo his gains are not made to make him a special snowflake. He is stronger to help himself, but more importantly help Gohan grow. That was why he was stronger. He didn't nominate himself to be self important to be cool. He was within reason to help tell a more compelling story.

I really want to get across I do not hate people getting stronger for no reason. Hell Roshi has some weird ass purple aura thing going on next episode, so I can buy he gained a ton of power from some mystical object that is making him fight Goku. It looks like they'll build that up. I'd be ok with that. I'd be singing a different tune if Freeza and 17 had a better story going for them. But they don't. They feel so fake and tossed in for cool factor, rather than to actually build the characters up.

I hope Gohan is the start and return of set up, build up, and pay off. At least he seems to be following that path. Set up from early as Freeza returning, to paying off in the tournament or later. I feel bad for 17 and Freeza as they along with Super Saiyan Bardock, are the definition of being whored out by their bodies and popularity, rather than organically growing.

[Lapislettuce]

It is down right surprising how Piccolo is handled so much better than Freeza and 17. He has the same random gains, but within the realm of reason and not trying to forcibly make him a special snowflake. It's even more surprising Gohan is getting any build up and set up at all. By how Super has done it, I'm not shocked they didn't just have him magically go Super Saiyan Blue off screen and say what everyone else has said. "Lol I trained off screen and am now super special awesome sauce again."

It almost feels like its because they respect the character (despite the stupid and crazy ass shit he's been through like being a babysitter, jobing, dying, made a joke etc) its nice to see that Piccolo got what he deserves, with both Freeza's and 17's were just plain last ditch effort that were needed for the plot to advance, both of them came out of nowhere, both of their so called potentials came from an interview with Freeza claiming he has potential and 17 without even saying it nor anyone in universe claiming that "oh, 17? yeah, he's the true Ultimate Android, Cell was just a misdirection" 17 who's mere purpose was supposed to help the perfect android reach its supposed power is now the perfect android, Cell must be crying.
We can wait for ep 90, who's to say Gohan didnt unlock anything? for all we know the guy probably has that double aura shit going on or may tease it that he goes double aura momentarily to hype him up more and have him say "dad, exactly how long did you train again? what was this realm of power that you didnt know existed?"

17 is referred to as "the mightiest artificial human" he's not an android anyway just a dub error,and how can Cell be any special when without the humans he absorbed 17 would've gave him a life time beating ? and at least when someone asks why 17 got this huge power boost i have a better answer than "because he's 17".

[precita]

It is down right surprising how Piccolo is handled so much better than Freeza and 17. He has the same random gains, but within the realm of reason and not trying to forcibly make him a special snowflake. It's even more surprising Gohan is getting any build up and set up at all. By how Super has done it, I'm not shocked they didn't just have him magically go Super Saiyan Blue off screen and say what everyone else has said. "Lol I trained off screen and am now super special awesome sauce again."

It almost feels like its because they respect the character (despite the stupid and crazy ass shit he's been through like being a babysitter, jobing, dying, made a joke etc) its nice to see that Piccolo got what he deserves, with both Freeza's and 17's were just plain last ditch effort that were needed for the plot to advance, both of them came out of nowhere, both of their so called potentials came from an interview with Freeza claiming he has potential and 17 without even saying it nor anyone in universe claiming that "oh, 17? yeah, he's the true Ultimate Android, Cell was just a misdirection" 17 who's mere purpose was supposed to help the perfect android reach its supposed power is now the perfect android, Cell must be crying.
We can wait for ep 90, who's to say Gohan didnt unlock anything? for all we know the guy probably has that double aura shit going on or may tease it that he goes double aura momentarily to hype him up more and have him say "dad, exactly how long did you train again? what was this realm of power that you didnt know existed?"

17 is referred to as "the mightiest artificial human" he's not an android anyway just a dub error,and how can Cell be any special when without the humans he absorbed 17 would've gave him a life time beating ? and at least when someone asks why 17 got this huge power boost i have a better answer than "because he's 17".

Imperfect Cell absorbed 17 quite easily. I mean I know 17 was tired from his fight with Piccolo, but I'm pretty sure even Cell's first form was stronger than 17.

[sintzu]

Most of it didn't make sense? What an exaggeration.

Krillin and #17 fighting a SsjB Goku, Roshi being able to fight Goku, Gohan seemingly being able to fight Goku in the next episode or 2 & keeping the universe's destruction a secret from Vegeta even though it would lead him to train and get stronger.

[dbzfan7]

It almost feels like its because they respect the character (despite the stupid and crazy ass shit he's been through like being a babysitter, jobing, dying, made a joke etc) its nice to see that Piccolo got what he deserves, with both Freeza's and 17's were just plain last ditch effort that were needed for the plot to advance, both of them came out of nowhere, both of their so called potentials came from an interview with Freeza claiming he has potential and 17 without even saying it nor anyone in universe claiming that "oh, 17? yeah, he's the true Ultimate Android, Cell was just a misdirection" 17 who's mere purpose was supposed to help the perfect android reach its supposed power is now the perfect android, Cell must be crying.
We can wait for ep 90, who's to say Gohan didnt unlock anything? for all we know the guy probably has that double aura shit going on or may tease it that he goes double aura momentarily to hype him up more and have him say "dad, exactly how long did you train again? what was this realm of power that you didnt know existed?"

17 is referred to as "the mightiest artificial human" he's not an android anyway just a dub error,and how can Cell be any special when without the humans he absorbed 17 would've gave him a life time beating ? and at least when someone asks why 17 got this huge power boost i have a better answer than "because he's 17".

Imperfect Cell absorbed 17 quite easily. I mean I know 17 was tired from his fight with Piccolo, but I'm pretty sure even Cell's first form was stronger than 17.

He's talking about before absorbing humans. Even then Cell had to weaken himself to his larval state to go back in time, and build up his power again through a whole rebirth process.

[Lapislettuce]

It almost feels like its because they respect the character (despite the stupid and crazy ass shit he's been through like being a babysitter, jobing, dying, made a joke etc) its nice to see that Piccolo got what he deserves, with both Freeza's and 17's were just plain last ditch effort that were needed for the plot to advance, both of them came out of nowhere, both of their so called potentials came from an interview with Freeza claiming he has potential and 17 without even saying it nor anyone in universe claiming that "oh, 17? yeah, he's the true Ultimate Android, Cell was just a misdirection" 17 who's mere purpose was supposed to help the perfect android reach its supposed power is now the perfect android, Cell must be crying.
We can wait for ep 90, who's to say Gohan didnt unlock anything? for all we know the guy probably has that double aura shit going on or may tease it that he goes double aura momentarily to hype him up more and have him say "dad, exactly how long did you train again? what was this realm of power that you didnt know existed?"

17 is referred to as "the mightiest artificial human" he's not an android anyway just a dub error,and how can Cell be any special when without the humans he absorbed 17 would've gave him a life time beating ? and at least when someone asks why 17 got this huge power boost i have a better answer than "because he's 17".

Imperfect Cell absorbed 17 quite easily. I mean I know 17 was tired from his fight with Piccolo, but I'm pretty sure even Cell's first form was stronger than 17.

That was after he absrobed many humans,if you remember Piccolo easily handeled imprfect Cell when in their first encounter and 17 was equal to Piccolo at that time,Cell had to absorb a lot of humans in order to become stronger than both of them.