Greatest mind in Dragon World.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:29 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: 2) Goku was extremely angry and his Super Saiyan form increased his bloodlust and excitement for fighting.

The first time he did it for revenge, not bloodlust, otherwise Goku would have killed Freeza. After training and learning about his new power, Goku never really seemed lustful for blood but just for an exciting fight. I think people are confusing Goku's lust for a good fighting challenge to Vegeta's bloodlust for a death match.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:34 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote: 2) Goku was extremely angry and his Super Saiyan form increased his bloodlust and excitement for fighting.
The first time he did it for revenge, not bloodlust, otherwise Goku would have killed Freeza. After training and learning about his new power, Goku never really seemed lustful for blood but just for an exciting fight. I think people are confusing Goku's lust for a good fighting challenge to Vegeta's bloodlust for a death match.

That's the word I was looking for. It just didn't come to me.

Forgotten Hero · Post by **Forgotten Hero** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:38 pm

jjgp1112 wrote:That's the word I was looking for. It just didn't come to me.

What revenge or a good fight?

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:46 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:
jjgp1112 wrote:That's the word I was looking for. It just didn't come to me.
What revenge or a good fight?

Revenge

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 7:18 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Forgotten Hero wrote: Goku would be ranked pretty low, but he still would have the best fighting skills and abilities over all.
You really think so.

I like finding someone to surpass Goku and all, but since Vegeta admited as much... ^^

Bussani wrote: If Cell had to eat a dumpling...

Chaozu.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 11:06 pm

I go with Piccolo for my choice, given the broad category. Especially after fusing with Kami. If the topic is simply for best scientific mind, most inventive, or most book smart, I'd probably go with Dr. Briefs. Matter compression is no small feat, and through reverse engineering he developed a interstellar space craft along with a gravity simulator. I imagine he could have cooked up a time machine if not for age, and Bulma's ability to do so is owed in no small part to what she learned from him.

If Gero's up here, Myu should be too (unless we're focused on Earth, but he did briefly cause mischief on the home front). His machine mutants trump the artificial humans. His control over his minions mostly worked. He outprogrammed Gero- his input lead to the second 17 and eventually Super 17, and he was able to take control of him from Gero.

Saiyan-Professor wrote:Please do not start that Vegeta let Cell transform stuff, the manga in that very scene explains why he allowed that to occur. Saiyan psychology was at work, I bet a million if I had it that Kakarrot would have responded similarly.

I'll start that stuff. Vegeta was a dumbass there (yes, I know his reasons). Just because Goku's done it too (most notably, IMO, insisting that Kid Buu be faced 1 on 1), doesn't make Vegeta any less of a bonehead. And, to be fair, no I don't think Goku would have under the circumstances. He would have been vulnerable to the same urges as Vegeta, true. But would he have allowed it to happen at the cost of #18's life, while his best friend was fighting *for* her? Would he have let Cell attack her with Kuririn being between them in the first place? Would he have goaded Gohan (who would have protested just like Trunks) into attacking him, and then strike back at him if it did go that far? No.

Remember the incident after Mirai Trunks departure when Bulma recommended tracking down the Artificial Humans/Gero before they even attack and destroy them, all the heavy hitters jumped stupid.

Worse in the dub, that's for sure. Instead of Vegeta needing a hobby and threatening Bulma to step off (with Goku admitting he liked a challenge), we got Vegeta claiming Bulma's plan had a non-existent flaw and Goku agreeing with him.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:38 pm

Forgotten Hero wrote:...
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Forgotten Hero wrote:Goku would be ranked pretty low, but he still would have the best fighting skills and abilities over all.
You really think so.
No captain obvious!? Caejones was talking about how he would place Vegeta over Goku, thus I throw my opinion down. Stop acting like you're the boss, it's getting annoying.

Dude what is your damn problem and what is this “boss” nonsense?

Onikage725 wrote:...
Saiyan-Professor wrote:Please do not start that Vegeta let Cell transform stuff, the manga in that very scene explains why he allowed that to occur. Saiyan psychology was at work, I bet a million if I had it that Kakarrot would have responded similarly.

I'll start that stuff. Vegeta was a dumbass there (yes, I know his reasons). Just because Goku's done it too (most notably, IMO, insisting that Kid Buu be faced 1 on 1), doesn't make Vegeta any less of a bonehead. And, to be fair, no I don't think Goku would have under the circumstances. He would have been vulnerable to the same urges as Vegeta, true. But would he have allowed it to happen at the cost of #18's life, while his best friend was fighting *for* her? Would he have let Cell attack her with Kuririn being between them in the first place? Would he have goaded Gohan (who would have protested just like Trunks) into attacking him, and then strike back at him if it did go that far? No.

Remember the incident after Mirai Trunks departure when Bulma recommended tracking down the Artificial Humans/Gero before they even attack and destroy them, all the heavy hitters jumped stupid.
Worse in the dub, that's for sure. Instead of Vegeta needing a hobby and threatening Bulma to step off (with Goku admitting he liked a challenge), we got Vegeta claiming Bulma's plan had a non-existent flaw and Goku agreeing with him.

I am not arguing that Vegeta did not make a dumb move but others are guilty of this as well. Kakarrot not destroying Fat Buu lead to more lost lives than Vegeta allowing Cell to reach perfection but somehow “Goku fan boys” tend to forget that little fact.

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 11:29 pm

Am I the only one who thinks Vegeta wasn't being that stupid in letting Cell absorb #18? He had a pretty realistic chance of being able to defeat Cell and, if he did die, he assumed Trunks would be able to finish off the wounded Cell as Trunks was just as strong as him. Not only that, but absorbing #18 meant they could eliminate the threat she represented, as #18 could feasably kill people before they find her (since she has no readable ki). Hell, he even knew Goku would probably be on his way before anything major would happen.

Was it selfish and needlessly reckless? Certainly. Stupid? Not really.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Mon Apr 06, 2009 11:13 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:I am not arguing that Vegeta did not make a dumb move but others are guilty of this as well. Kakarrot not destroying Fat Buu lead to more lost lives than Vegeta allowing Cell to reach perfection but somehow “Goku fan boys” tend to forget that little fact.

I'm far from a Goku fanboy, but I think it's because Vegeta does it consistently. Also, there's something honest about Goku, whereas Vegeta believes his own bullshit. If Goku does it, he either has a reason (even if that reason is flawed), or he'll simply admit he wants a challenge. Vegeta has the same love of a challenge, but he seems to gloat that he can handle anything. Goku makes no presumptions about his chances, he just wants both fighters involved in the fight to give it their all (and, heck, to have fun). That's one reason why I credit Piccolo and forgive Goku, while criticizing Vegeta. Piccolo and Goku both gauge opponents fairly well, and admit when they are outmatched. Piccolo doesn't *look* for unwinable (is that a word?) fights for the hell of it, though Goku would. Vegeta falls into Goku's camp, but until the Buu Saga he seems psychologically incapable of acknowledging if he's outmatched (hence why Goku went to such pains to hide SSJ3 from him).