Most painful thing that happen to Vegeta in your Opinion?

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:01 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Akira Toriyama wrote:With Vegeta, well, I don't like him all that much, but he was extremely helpful to have around.
Vegeta helped in that if he appeared weak Kakarrot or Son Gohan would look that much greater.
He ain’t the main character bro. The story isn’t about him. I know that that’s how FUNimation’s marketing sorta tried to spin it at the height of the Cell arc’s popularity on Toonami, but without mincing words, they were lying out their ass about someone else’s story in order to sell it as something it was never written or intended to be in the first place.

We all have our favorite supporting characters that we deeply love to death, but we all gotta recognize that that’s all they are: supporting characters. This is ultimately Son Goku’s show, always has been, always will be since 1984, and as such the whole thing is built to revolve around him. He’s the sole constant in the whole series apart from the Dragon Balls themselves. Just about ALL of the supporting characters are there to, on at least some level, highlight Goku’s character in some way.

It’s not even like Vegeta was a part of the series from the beginning anyway: he didn’t show up until like, 7 story arcs in which was roughly over 6 years into the manga’s run if I’m not mistaken. He was an incredibly badass, memorable villain for two storylines, a meandering, clumsily written plot device for one storyline (in this daizexer’s opinion at least), and went out with a really cool little character arc for the final storyline. That kind of character history makes him many things: the central hero ain’t one of them.

I too like him a great deal (for three out of four story arcs at least), but I have no illusions about what he’s there to do and be; an embodiment of everything that Son Goku is not. His character traits were intended by the author to be NEGATIVES to be cautious of and to avoid, not positives to be admired. Interpreting Vegeta in the latter sense is to take him in the exact OPPOSITE light Toriyama intended.

In bluntly simple terms, Vegeta was originally written by the original author to be the Goofus to Goku’s Gallant (and I fully recognize how ironic that comparison is in light of how dopey Goku is intellectually.

I’m not trying to be mean or anything with any of this or to shit on the core of your love for the series; I guess I’m just saying, as a word of friendly advice, that it’s probably best for you to, on some level, let go of FUNimation’s early 2000’s marketing of Vegeta (which I’ve seen you allude to in many of your posts), since it’s basically built on a foundation of misinterpretation and outright lying to it’s audience; a skewed, twisted distortion that one group of people put on someone else’s story many years long after the fact. And anything that's built on mistruth is gonna always likely cause problems (in one form or another) for the people who really believe in it and are that deeply sold on it.

I’m not saying to stop liking that distortion (since you clearly do very much, and are more than entitled to), but to simply recognize it on a conscious, intellectual level and accept it for what it ultimately actually is when all is said and done, and to maybe somehow make peace with it while still carrying the personal love for the “lie” (for want of a better term) in your heart of hearts. If that makes any sense.

Just trying to offer some perspective here, that’s all, since I’ve seen you express so much frustration on numerous occasions at the original version’s characterizations of Vegeta in comparison to Goku.

I have my own opinion and feelings and I am sticking with it.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 12:40 pm

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:50 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:
Wojak wrote:I just found something out, just for the lulz.
Vegeta (in the first half of DBZ) is a character that has all the seven deadly sins (from the Bible) on his concience...
*Forehead smack*

Been watching Se7en a bunch lately have we?

No, it was a long time ago, but I have watched it.
I just have to say that that movie wasn't what I had in mind when I wrote that post, and to repeat, it was made just for the lulz and nothing to be taken seriously.

Booney · Post by **Booney** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:06 pm

I'd say the Saiyan Saga did a good number on him.

First his dream of becoming immortal and kill Freeza are shatered when he realizes they shouldn't have killed Piccolo.
Then he get's beaten up by a low class, got his tail cut off by a fat minor character, crushed by a giant ape, his back cut AGAIN by the fat one and almost dies by the hands of a little bald guy if it weren't for the low class that gave him his mercy.

That's just... dude.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:08 pm

Booney wrote:I'd say the Saiyan Saga did a good number on him.

First his dream of becoming immortal and kill Freeza are shatered when he realizes they shouldn't have killed Piccolo.

Uh... He knew there would be other Dragon Balls on Namek and he ordered Nappa to kill him... Not even the dub got that wrong, so I don't even see where you got it...

Booney · Post by **Booney** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:11 pm

Ow, forgot about that.

Still, almost getting killed back on Earth must have hurt his body and pride pretty bad

The Tori-bot · Post by **The Tori-bot** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:23 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Booney wrote:I'd say the Saiyan Saga did a good number on him.

First his dream of becoming immortal and kill Freeza are shatered when he realizes they shouldn't have killed Piccolo.
Uh... He knew there would be other Dragon Balls on Namek and he ordered Nappa to kill him... Not even the dub got that wrong, so I don't even see where you got it...

Abridged, maybe?

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:41 pm

Maybe... and just go with me on this... Kuririn almost killing him with Yajirobe's sword. Just the shock that while he landed on that planet as the MFWIC, he left laying at the mercy of the bald midget's sword arm. I think this shook him so much that he cooked up the idea to have Kuririn hurt him (subconsciously) so that he could say "see, I let him, totally my idea."

Or maybe just Yajirobe's sword. The most unlikely fighter stole Vegeta's manhood. With all the boasting of being a "Super Elite," and with the pride Saiyans had in their "true" forms, that had to suck royally. Yet it wasn't really explored.

Metalwario64 · Post by **Metalwario64** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:50 pm

Onikage725 wrote:Or maybe just Yajirobe's sword. The most unlikely fighter stole Vegeta's manhood.

Uh... he... cut his tail...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:09 pm

Wojak wrote:Vegeta (in the first half of DBZ) is a character that has all the seven deadly sins (from the Bible) on his concience:

The seven deadly sins aren't from the Bible. They're from the writings of a monk in the 300s AD, which was then clarified and condensed by Pope Gregory I in the 590s. The list has undergone changes in the millennium and a half since then, mostly because it's not from the Bible.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 7:56 pm

I suppose to cap off my own thoughts on the subject of Vegeta and being 'screwed'...it's not really like he cares or is driven insane by this stuff. By the end of the series, do you really think he was unhappy?

Look at it this way, being an self jerk got him a pretty cool happily ever after.

*Watches people completely ignore my positive outlook on the situation*

SSJmole · Post by **SSJmole** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:01 pm

Been told his moustache sucked.

Onikage725 · Post by **Onikage725** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:05 pm

Metalwario64 wrote:
Onikage725 wrote:Or maybe just Yajirobe's sword. The most unlikely fighter stole Vegeta's manhood.
Uh... he... cut his tail...

Uh huh. And we saw how Raditz reacted when he found out Goku had lost his tail.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:45 pm

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:09 am

Rocketman wrote:
Wojak wrote:Vegeta (in the first half of DBZ) is a character that has all the seven deadly sins (from the Bible) on his concience:
The seven deadly sins aren't from the Bible. They're from the writings of a monk in the 300s AD, which was then clarified and condensed by Pope Gregory I in the 590s. The list has undergone changes in the millennium and a half since then, mostly because it's not from the Bible.

Hey, I'm not even Christian!
Thanks for the info nevertheless.

Wasted Wisher · Post by **Wasted Wisher** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:23 am

You want to know what really hurt Vegeta the most?

That damn Kakarrot stealing his sushi.

But he got back at him, don't you worry. Oh yes, did he ever get back at him.

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:20 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote:...(by virtue of the fact that Bulma apparently has terrible taste in men).

Like Kakarrot would have been a better choice. I seriously doubt he would have won husband and father of the year. All he would have to do is hear of a rumor that someone is strong somewhere and off he goes and abandons his family. Even the genocidal asshole Vegeta a.k.a Hitler’s grandson was around his family more often than Kakarrot.

Victator Supreme · Post by **Victator Supreme** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:28 pm

Saiyan-Professor wrote:
Kunzait_83 wrote:...(by virtue of the fact that Bulma apparently has terrible taste in men).
Like Kakarrot would have been a better choice. I seriously doubt he would have won husband and father of the year. All he would have to do is hear of a rumor that someone is strong somewhere and off he goes and abandons his family. Even the genocidal asshole Vegeta a.k.a Hitler’s grandson was around his family more often than Kakarrot.

Yeah but its Vegeta that falls into line as a punishment.

On that note I can't ever see Vegeta being guilty of lust. Its difficult to picture him as a sexual being.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:03 pm

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:00 pm

I apologize for that aspect of my comment; usually you will hear ol skool fans state that Kakarrot would have been a far better choice, yet on another note.

Kunzait_83 wrote:...So she dumps him for… the same cackling psycho mass murderer who almost killed her and all her friends not even a story arc or two prior, and who was for a time in fact EVERY BIT as terrible a husband and father as Goku (actually worse; he almost killed Bulma and baby Trunks with a misplaced ki attack during the Cell arc, and shrugged it off like he almost knocked over a glass of juice; Goku’s failed as a husband and dad on numerous levels, but never on the grounds of anything remotely NEAR that fucked up), until taking close to a good decade to pull his head out of his ass and get his act together...

This is where I would have to disagree, because Kakarrot has pulled some dumbass moves all in the sake of fighting that has lead to the world potentially being destroyed and by extension his family.