"Supreme" Kai really was beyond useless

[Xyex]

Really, though, the people who think that the Gods (at any level) are useless need to remember that the main characters in Dragonball are huge anomalies. It isn't like each generation has people who could kick the crap out of the Gods.

Exactly. Piccolo, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are all absurdly powerful by anyone's standards. Mortals simply aren't meant/expected to become that powerful, but then these three had special advantages. Being Saiya-jin (thus having "Zenkais" and Super Saiya-jin), training with gods, coming back from the dead, all kinds of special training, and so on. I mean, remove the DBs and Goku's power growth ends at 416, Vegeta's ends when Freeza kills him on Namek, Gohan's likely ends on Earth against Nappa without Goku there to save him. Most people don't get another chance at life. Goten and Trunks are the kids of two of the strongest in the universe (and power seems to be hereditary in DB) and Piccolo's a twice fused being.

Plus there's the gravity training they did, that no one else seems to have done, their superior understanding of ki, the RoSaT, various power-ups, the list goes on and on. They had dozens of advantages over the 'average Joe' of the universe to get them to that point. Meanwhile Freeza dominated the universe at a power of 530,000. Oozaru Vegeta was the second most powerful person in the universe when he showed up on Earth (180,000) and Ginyu the third at 120,000. The rest of the Ginyu Force were somewhere around 40,000. This is the more standard fare for the universe and the Kaioshin could just snap their fingers an kill them without training. Only those with all kinds of special help could get anywhere near them.

[Godo]

If only he were born from the tree that Kaiou and Kaioushin are come from.

He may have been, look:

[Kendamu]

Really, though, the people who think that the Gods (at any level) are useless need to remember that the main characters in Dragonball are huge anomalies. It isn't like each generation has people who could kick the crap out of the Gods.

Exactly. Piccolo, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are all absurdly powerful by anyone's standards. Mortals simply aren't meant/expected to become that powerful, but then these three had special advantages. Being Saiya-jin (thus having "Zenkais" and Super Saiya-jin), training with gods, coming back from the dead, all kinds of special training, and so on. I mean, remove the DBs and Goku's power growth ends at 416, Vegeta's ends when Freeza kills him on Namek, Gohan's likely ends on Earth against Nappa without Goku there to save him. Most people don't get another chance at life. Goten and Trunks are the kids of two of the strongest in the universe (and power seems to be hereditary in DB) and Piccolo's a twice fused being.

Plus there's the gravity training they did, that no one else seems to have done, their superior understanding of ki, the RoSaT, various power-ups, the list goes on and on. They had dozens of advantages over the 'average Joe' of the universe to get them to that point. Meanwhile Freeza dominated the universe at a power of 530,000. Oozaru Vegeta was the second most powerful person in the universe when he showed up on Earth (180,000) and Ginyu the third at 120,000. The rest of the Ginyu Force were somewhere around 40,000. This is the more standard fare for the universe and the Kaioshin's could just snap their fingers an kill them without training. Only those with all kinds of special help could get anywhere near them.

Also add in the fact that the Gods tend to not interfere with mortal matters too often because they want mortals to try and live by their own power rather than growing lazy and constantly depending on the Gods to fix any random little problem.

[mystic trunks]

Really, though, the people who think that the Gods (at any level) are useless need to remember that the main characters in Dragonball are huge anomalies. It isn't like each generation has people who could kick the crap out of the Gods.

Exactly. Piccolo, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are all absurdly powerful by anyone's standards. Mortals simply aren't meant/expected to become that powerful, but then these three had special advantages. Being Saiya-jin (thus having "Zenkais" and Super Saiya-jin), training with gods, coming back from the dead, all kinds of special training, and so on. I mean, remove the DBs and Goku's power growth ends at 416, Vegeta's ends when Freeza kills him on Namek, Gohan's likely ends on Earth against Nappa without Goku there to save him. Most people don't get another chance at life. Goten and Trunks are the kids of two of the strongest in the universe (and power seems to be hereditary in DB) and Piccolo's a twice fused being.

Plus there's the gravity training they did, that no one else seems to have done, their superior understanding of ki, the RoSaT, various power-ups, the list goes on and on. They had dozens of advantages over the 'average Joe' of the universe to get them to that point. Meanwhile Freeza dominated the universe at a power of 530,000. Oozaru Vegeta was the second most powerful person in the universe when he showed up on Earth (180,000) and Ginyu the third at 120,000. The rest of the Ginyu Force were somewhere around 40,000. This is the more standard fare for the universe and the Kaioshin could just snap their fingers an kill them without training. Only those with all kinds of special help could get anywhere near them.

These are some very good points!

[Bussani]

Exactly. Piccolo, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are all absurdly powerful by anyone's standards. Mortals simply aren't meant/expected to become that powerful, but then these three had special advantages. Being Saiya-jin (thus having "Zenkais" and Super Saiya-jin), training with gods, coming back from the dead, all kinds of special training, and so on. I mean, remove the DBs and Goku's power growth ends at 416, Vegeta's ends when Freeza kills him on Namek, Gohan's likely ends on Earth against Nappa without Goku there to save him. Most people don't get another chance at life. Goten and Trunks are the kids of two of the strongest in the universe (and power seems to be hereditary in DB) and Piccolo's a twice fused being.

Plus there's the gravity training they did, that no one else seems to have done, their superior understanding of ki, the RoSaT, various power-ups, the list goes on and on. They had dozens of advantages over the 'average Joe' of the universe to get them to that point. Meanwhile Freeza dominated the universe at a power of 530,000. Oozaru Vegeta was the second most powerful person in the universe when he showed up on Earth (180,000) and Ginyu the third at 120,000. The rest of the Ginyu Force were somewhere around 40,000. This is the more standard fare for the universe and the Kaioshin could just snap their fingers an kill them without training. Only those with all kinds of special help could get anywhere near them.

You just put everything I felt into excellent words. Thanks.

[Dayspring]

Really, though, the people who think that the Gods (at any level) are useless need to remember that the main characters in Dragonball are huge anomalies. It isn't like each generation has people who could kick the crap out of the Gods.

Exactly. Piccolo, Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks are all absurdly powerful by anyone's standards. Mortals simply aren't meant/expected to become that powerful, but then these three had special advantages. Being Saiya-jin (thus having "Zenkais" and Super Saiya-jin), training with gods, coming back from the dead, all kinds of special training, and so on. I mean, remove the DBs and Goku's power growth ends at 416, Vegeta's ends when Freeza kills him on Namek, Gohan's likely ends on Earth against Nappa without Goku there to save him. Most people don't get another chance at life. Goten and Trunks are the kids of two of the strongest in the universe (and power seems to be hereditary in DB) and Piccolo's a twice fused being.

Plus there's the gravity training they did, that no one else seems to have done, their superior understanding of ki, the RoSaT, various power-ups, the list goes on and on. They had dozens of advantages over the 'average Joe' of the universe to get them to that point. Meanwhile Freeza dominated the universe at a power of 530,000. Oozaru Vegeta was the second most powerful person in the universe when he showed up on Earth (180,000) and Ginyu the third at 120,000. The rest of the Ginyu Force were somewhere around 40,000. This is the more standard fare for the universe and the Kaioshin's could just snap their fingers an kill them without training. Only those with all kinds of special help could get anywhere near them.

Also add in the fact that the Gods tend to not interfere with mortal matters too often because they want mortals to try and live by their own power rather than growing lazy and constantly depending on the Gods to fix any random little problem.

And even if they can't, by the laws of Dragonball nature, people like Freeza aren't a threat to the Afterlife or reincartnation process. All they're doing is shortenening a soul's stay in the Universe. Added to that, they'll be punished for their deeds once their lifespans run out. So from the POV of the Cosmos, people like Freeza are only small threats to the Universe, whereas Buu was a major threat to the entirety of the Cosmos.

Although this does make me wonder if Kaioshin would have intervened had Freeza gotten immortality in the Namek saga.

But just to further emphasize what Xyex already wrote, Freeza existed to show what the biggest natural threat possible could be, while the androids were the biggest unnatural threat possible. Goku and co greatly surpassing the unnatural should give Kaioshin (the strongest being naturally possible) reason to freak out. Even with his fear of the Majin that everybody laughs at makes sense to me; Kaioshin is the equivalent of the God of Order, whereas the SSJs and demons are all entities of the God of Chaos (hell, Dabura IS the God of Chaos!).

[Piccolo Daimao]

Although this does make me wonder if Kaioshin would have intervened had Freeza gotten immortality in the Namek saga.

Only if Freeza then went on to terrorize the afterlife. Kaioshin only intervened with Boo because Boo was a threat, not only to the entire universe, but the afterlife, plus the fact that he killed all other Kaioshins but him.

[mystic trunks]

Weren't Freeza And Cell causing trouble in Hell? I think that's why Pikkon was sent to pacify them.

[Khalid Shahin]

Weren't Freeza And Cell causing trouble in Hell? I think that's why Paikuhan was sent to pacify them.

That's filler. There is no physical hell.

[caejones]

Weren't Freeza And Cell causing trouble in Hell? I think that's why Paikuhan was sent to pacify them.

That's filler. There is no physical hell.

The manga implies there is a (physical?) Hell, just... not like what we see in Filler.

[Khalid Shahin]

Weren't Freeza And Cell causing trouble in Hell? I think that's why Paikuhan was sent to pacify them.

That's filler. There is no physical hell.

The manga implies there is a (physical?) Hell, just... not like what we see in Filler.

I meant physical as in physical bodies, which the manga doesn't have.

[FuniYamcha]

First, I'm talking about the current kaioshin, not the elder one, as I feel he was actually useful. Potara? Know about that from the elder. What's the use of sensing what's happening on Earth when you fucked up and could have prevented things to begin with if you didn't suck? And you seem to miss the point that NOTHING, and I mean NOTHING, should be stronger than a bloody God of All Reality. If Goku was able to teleport better and had better senses, then he'd already be better than the current Kaioshin.

You seem to misunderstand me saying that the current kaioshin sucks much more than he should, with saying that all the kaioshin were completely worthless. But honestly, should a God of Gods be anything less than a perfect/near-perfect being? Forget raw power, you'd think the ultimate God would have the ability to snap his fingers and automatically destroy anyone and banish them to hell or something. But still, I'm just saying, if you restart the Buu Arc and put Elder Kaioshin in control from the beginning, it would have been far less entertaining since he knew what the hell he was doing.

They're not creator gods, though. They're not immortal, there's no evidence that they created the universe or have that sort of power. They're more like many gods in eastern mythology, which might be why you're expecting them to be more than they are.

In eastern mythology, it really isn't that unusual for gods to be outclassed, have limits or even fall in battle.

Well, I'll accept that reasoning because that's an eye-opening point. I, and I assume many in the west, would assume a "god" to be pretty much the Almighty, "I'm the reason for everything" kind of being. Either way, I still think Elder Kaioshin is way more useful than the current one.

[Bussani]

Either way, I still think Elder Kaioshin is way more useful than the current one.

So does Goku. That was one of my favorite panels of all time.