Super Saiyans Going Too Far?

[TheGreatness25]

Well to be honest though, by the time all the other Super Saiyans appeared, Krillin himself could've probably killed off the majority of Saiyans, so it's reasonable to believe that every character who became Super Saiyan had reached a level that no Saiyan before them had reached.

[Vashkey]

Well, it wouldn't have been very interesting to watch if only a like three characters ever went Super Saiyan because series would just be about those few characters that were actually capable of helping out. And it wouldnt have been very interesting if the characters didn't need a significant power up to stand a chance of beating the villain. Sure, maybe they didn't quite need a new Super Saiyan level for a power up but it's the most tangible way for the viewer to know the character has made progress.

I will say, the Buu Saga maybe took it a bit too far. We had Goten and Trunks show off their Super Saiyan forms and later fuse and have Super Saiyan 1 and 3 down pat, Vegeta went Super Saiyan 2 and Goku achieved 2 and 3 and the two later fused and Vegeto went Super Saiyan. And Buu himself had like more transformations than anyone in the series.

[Kaboom]

But maybe the reason why there weren't any Super Saiyans was because no Saiyan had ever worked quite hard enough to achieve that goal.

More like very few, if any, Saiyans ever had the opportunities to get crazy powerups, abuse the zenkai system, and cheat death like Goku, Vegeta, and (though to a somewhat lesser extent) Gohan.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

In all seriousness, Kaboom hit the nail on the head. Only two of the six(including Future Trunks) Saiyans had the Super Saiyan form "handed" to them while everyone else worked their ass off for it.

Discounting the anime and taking only from what's in the manga, here's how hard everyone except Goku "worked their ass off" for it.

Vegeta: Trained until he gave up. BAM, Super Saiyan.
Future Trunks: Can just do it.
Gohan: Can just do it.
Trunks: Can just do it.
Goten: Can just do it.

How is that working their asses off? Aside from Vegeta, we don't even know how any of them achieved it in the first place.

We literally see Gohan training his ass off in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber to achieve his Super Saiyan state.Meanwhile, Future Trunks had to fight for survival, mixing that with the loss of his master triggered the ability to transform. So yeah, I'd say my statement still holds some water.

[Bussani]

I never thought that Super Saiyan was the universe arbitrarily choosing a Saiyan every thousand years and saying, "Hey, you're the chosen one." A legend is a legend. I just assumed that it was so rare that someone only reached it roughly every thousand years. And I felt this way before the Cell and Buu sagas, too.

[Blue]

I never thought that Super Saiyan was the universe arbitrarily choosing a Saiyan every thousand years and saying, "Hey, you're the chosen one." A legend is a legend.

Like the legend of the Dragonballs,Karin's place and Magic "power up" Water? (Y'know the real one.)

[Xyex]

I never thought that Super Saiyan was the universe arbitrarily choosing a Saiyan every thousand years and saying, "Hey, you're the chosen one." A legend is a legend.

Like the legend of the Dragonballs,Karin's place and Magic "power up" Water? (Y'know the real one.)

From what I remember, the Legend of the Dragonballs never mentioned a shriveled up green alien as their creator. I don't remember any legends pertaining to the tower or the real water.

[Puto]

Dipping into filler territory here, but like the legend of the Dragon Balls that originally was only one and that God supposedly split into seven because of the greed of men?

[Blue]

I never thought that Super Saiyan was the universe arbitrarily choosing a Saiyan every thousand years and saying, "Hey, you're the chosen one." A legend is a legend.

Like the legend of the Dragonballs,Karin's place and Magic "power up" Water? (Y'know the real one.)

From what I remember, the Legend of the Dragonballs never mentioned a shriveled up green alien as their creator. I don't remember any legends pertaining to the tower or the real water.

Bora (or maybe Upa) tells Goku about what the legend says lays at the top of the tower. Korin talks about the legend of how the water will affect your body. The DragonBall legend was dead on with how it all works, the number of wishes, how many you need and the fact that a Dragon appears etc.

Most every legend Toriyama wrote was pretty much dead on with what actually happens.

Dipping into filler territory here, but like the legend of the Dragon Balls that originally was only one and that God supposedly split into seven because of the greed of men?

This wasn't written by Toriyama, I'm discussing out of universe reasoning.

[Cipher]

Overuse of Super Saiyan: Never even half as irritating as abusing "zenkai" power-ups.

Throw your anger at the series' contrivance that actually deserves it.

[Blue]

Overuse of Super Saiyan: Never even half as irritating as abusing "zenkai" power-ups.

Throw your anger at the series' contrivance that actually deserves it.

Zenkai power ups are pretty lame, doesn't mean Super Saiyan doesn't still deserve it.

[Xyex]

Bora (or maybe Upa) tells Goku about what the legend says lays at the top of the tower. Karin talks about the legend of how the water will affect your body. The DragonBall legend was dead on with how it all works, the number of wishes, how many you need and the fact that a Dragon appears etc.

Most every legend Toriyama wrote was pretty much dead on with what actually happens.

SSJ is also a thousand years old, and hasn't been seen since. The Dragonballs are around 300 years old and have been used several times in that time span, Bora's people live right under the tower and several have climbed it (including Roshi, within the last 300 or so years), and Korin knows all about the water, including it's exact location, so he obviously knows all about how it works, too, beyond what legends would say. None of the cases on Earth are even remotely similar to the SSJ legend.

[Blue]

As I said already I'm discussing out of universe reasoning. Every single legend Toriyama has written was meant to be taken literally, there is 0 reason to believe he decided to be realistic all of a sudden and make one completely false. Some of you give Toriyama a lot more credit then is reasonable. I doubt he was sitting there thinking about how time would age legends, he just writes. It's a show meant for lil' babbys I sincerely doubt all of a sudden he woke up and was like "Oh man let's throw a curve ball at the audience!" he woke up one morning and was like "Fuck I have to write one more arc? What did I write about Super Saiyans again? Who cares, nobody is going to remember."

[Cipher]

As I said already I'm discussing out of universe reasoning. Every single legend Toriyama has written was meant to be taken literally, there is 0 reason to believe he decided to be realistic all of a sudden and make one completely false.

So you're arguing that because Toriyama likely intended the legend to be true as he was writing the Freeza arc, he invalidates his ability to reveal more information about it later in the story?

In that case, Kami and Piccolo are from Earth.

[Blue]

As I said already I'm discussing out of universe reasoning. Every single legend Toriyama has written was meant to be taken literally, there is 0 reason to believe he decided to be realistic all of a sudden and make one completely false.

So you're arguing that because Toriyama likely intended the legend to be true as he was writing the Freeza arc, he invalidates his ability to reveal more information about it later in the story?

In that case, Kami and Piccolo are from Earth.

No, I'm trying to get people to accept that this is where Toriyama was going as he was writing the Namek arc and he decided to change it for the Cell arc. Not that he had this idea in his head all along.

[Cipher]

No, I'm just trying to get people to accept that's where he was going as he was writing the Namek arc and decided to change it for the Cell arc. Not that he had this idea in his head all along.

I agree. He probably didn't. On the other hand, I fail to see why that's a problem at all. Dragon Ball pulls stuff out its ass from chapter one. It couldn't bother me less that in the latter part of the story, they come in the form of gold hair and green eyes. In fact, there's at least precedence for that, so it's perhaps preferable to the likes of Super Holy Waters and zenkai power-ups.

[Blue]

That's fine, all I was saying was I thought the original concept of Super Saiyan was SO much more cool then what we ended up getting. In my opinion the final product was a huge disappointment and a complete bastardization of the original idea so that bugs me.

Edit: That's not to say all bastardizations are horrible, I for one like that Dragon Ball completely changed from the Journey to the West story. I just really liked the original concept.

[Dayspring]

What's the problem with multiple SSJs and multiple SSJ transformations? The legend only stipulates that SSJs are the strongest beings in the universe. A regular SSJ Goku is stronger than the strongest being in the universe. Legend fulfilled. Sure androids come along, forcing them to invent new techniques, but it doesn't mean that's impossible, since the androids aren't naturally conceived.

[samuraigundam]

I agree that taking it beyond Super Saiyan into 2, 3, and 4 was unnecessary and repetitive. If they needed Goku to be stronger to beat stronger foes, they should have simply had Goku train harder as he did when he was just a plain old regular Saiya - Jin.

Truthfully, I was just as enthraled when Goku came back to beat Vegeta and Nappa with his new found strength as I was when he reached the SS level to beat Freeza, despite the lack of a change in physicality. As a matter of fact, thats what made it so exciting: that Vegeta and Nappa couldnt tell the difference until he started kicking their ass.

Gokus SSJ 4 transformation should have been his SSJ 2 transformation, and his final one, in my opinion.

[caejones]

Dumb idea: Let's say there is only one Super Saiyan every 1000 years.
Have Goku die on Namek.
Then have Future Trunks enter a backward version of the RoSaT, come out a thousand years later as a Super Saiyan, then use timetravel to go back to the post-Freeza timeframe.

Neah, didn't think so.

Back before the Buu Saga aired on Toonami, someone told me that Goten couldn't go SSJ and that it took Gotenks. Hmm.