Who is Stronger Questions

[Rory]

It wasn't very transitional. The reader was hit over the head almost literally with a hammer when the Piccolo Daimao arc started. From fun shonen to one core character after another very suddenly being killed by a ruthless demon.

Which is why I said volumes 1 - 10. The 22nd Tenka-ichi Budokai was much more serious than the previous Budokai, barely throwing in jokes here and there, the story was becoming much more mature. Then you're hit with the Piccolo stuff.

[jjgp1112]

Yeah, I'd say the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament is when the more serious stuff began. The previous tournament centered around the spectacle of the tournament itself, while the 22nd actually focused on the fights, and had you had the whole story about Tien beging trained as an assassin and stuff like that.

[Senzu_Bean]

Who is the strongest character at the very END of DBZ? Goku or Gohan? Is it debatable or is there a solid, factual answer?

In actual Dragonball material it isn't certain, but if you go by Mr. Toriyama other work, Neko Majin, Goku is stronger than Gohan after training Uub. But the real question is: did Goku exceeded Gohan's power because the latter slacked a lot and thus decreased his power or if Goku really exceeded Gohan's "Mystic" power.

Tell me who was really stronger: Kid Buu or Super Buu?

I'm entering in dangerous waters but I'm going to be briefly - it is only possible for Super Buu to be stronger than Kid Buu if South Kaioshin is SSJ3 tier.

[Savage68]

South Kaioshin is evidently weaker than SSJ/SSJ2 Teen Gohan, but Super Buu is still stronger than Kid Buu. Buu's Buff stage was apparently the pinnacle of Super Buu + South Kaioshin and Dai Kaioshin's power. A single facet like South Kaioshin's strength isn't making or breaking this debate for anyone.

[rereboy]

Seriously, the most reliable sources for comparing Super Buu to Kid Buu are Goku`s statements and actions about them, which imply that Super Buu is stronger. Furthermore, it just makes sense looking at the story (of the manga).

Trying to figure out who exactly is stronger just by using one person that got absorbed like South Kaioshin won`t get us anywhere since Buu went trough some highly unlikely transformations when he absorbed Dai Kaioshin and when he became Super Buu.

[Senzu_Bean]

The argument I pointed above have the same value as any other argument one can come with for this subject.

Whether you want take it or not as a valid argument that is another issue.

[rereboy]

Yes, it its. That is why I didn`t refuse the validity of the argument at all, I merely stated what seems to be the most reliable and direct source in the manga for comparing the two Buus and then I stated one of the problems of the argument (the very uncommon nature of the transformations that Buu underwent).

[Senzu_Bean]

Still one doesn't contradict the other. That is why I use this as the top, irrefutable argument in this type of debate.

[Savage68]

Still one doesn't contradict the other. That is why I use this as the top, irrefutable argument in this type of debate.

That doesn't really hold up to the much more tenable arguments, like the direct statements, implications and actions from Goku.

[jackjack]

it is only possible for Super Buu to be stronger than Kid Buu if South Kaioshin is SSJ3 tier.

Please tell me if this sounds absurd to you?

It is only possible for Semi Cell to be stronger than Imperfect Cell if #17 is as strong as #16.

[Senzu_Bean]

Still one doesn't contradict the other. That is why I use this as the top, irrefutable argument in this type of debate.

That doesn't really hold up to the much more tenable arguments, like the direct statements, implications and actions from Goku.

Which, again, I say they don't contradict each other.

it is only possible for Super Buu to be stronger than Kid Buu if South Kaioshin is SSJ3 tier.

Please tell me if this sounds absurd to you?

It is only possible for Semi Cell to be stronger than Imperfect Cell if #17 is as strong as #16.

Majin Buu absorptions are additions, which Cell's aren't.

[Savage68]

Which, again, I say they don't contradict each other.

So we agree then, Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu.

[Godo]

My "calculations" are:

1. Kid Buu = 2
___________
2. Kid Buu (2) + South Kaioshin (1,5) = Buff Buu (3,5) <- Stated to be stronger than Kid Buu
___________
3. Buff Buu (3,5) + Dai Kaioshin (2) = Fat Buu 1,5 <- Buu was stated to become weaker due to Dai Kaioshin's docile nature
___________
4. Fat Buu (1,5) -> Mr. Buu + Thin Buu = Super Buu (5,5) <- Due to him not being affected by Dai Kaioshin's influence (Mr. Buu is instead), he gains the power he should have from point 3.
___________
5. Absorbs Piccolo, Trunks, Goten and Gohan, and loses them. Mr. Buu is disconnected, thus all power influence is gone.
___________
6. Without Mr. Buu and the other fighters, he reverts to his old power (2). He is tougher to beat than Fat Buu, but not by much.

[Senzu_Bean]

Which, again, I say they don't contradict each other.

So we agree then, Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu.

And then people ask why Buu's debate always end in flaming.

2. Kid Buu (2) + South Kaioshin (1,5) = Buff Buu (3,5) <- Stated to be stronger than Kid Buu

He isn't stated to be stronger than Kid Buu. The only thing stated about Buff Buu's power is he's stronger than Super Buu.

[Savage68]

And then people ask why Buu's debate always end in flaming.

What does that have to do with what I said?

Sorry, but your previous statement is confusing. You said that the South Kaioshin's strength doesn't contradict the 'direct actions, implications, and statements from Goku'. And those actions, implications and statements all heavily suggest that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu. So if South Kaioshin's strength (whatever that may be) doesn't contradict any of that, then isn't it irrelevant? Since, by definition, it neither adds nor subtracts anything from anyone's argument.

[Dayspring]

Anybody else notice that Kaioshins seem to be the cause of every problem regarding strength compairsons in the Boo saga?

1) Kaioshin is both lightyears beyond SSJ2 Gohan, but not as strong as SSJ Gohan. Just because.
2) Potara multiplies the strength of two people, which is how it is stronger than fusion dance. The exception is with Kibito and Kaioshin. Just because.
3) South Kaioshin is both weaker than SSJ Gohan, but strong enough to increase Kid Boo's strength to a level greater than Super Boo. Just because.
4) Whenever someone is absorbed by Boo, their strength, personality and intelligence gets absorbed as well. Except for the Dai Kaioshin. Just because.

Kaioshins need a smack. Just because.

[Savage68]

The Potara doesn't literally multiply powers together. Kibitoshin's power proves this.

[Senzu_Bean]

And those actions, implications and statements all heavily suggest that Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu.

They do not but that is really the old talk.

Anybody else notice that Kaioshins seem to be the cause of every problem regarding strength compairsons in the Boo saga?

Only if you have certain opinions about certain subjects, which in your case certainly complicate everything.

[Savage68]

They do not but that is really the old talk.

They do, until proven wrong. It's not as though it would be off-topic for you to discuss why what I said isn't true. If Kid Buu is not weaker than Super Buu, this is a perfect opportunity for someone to explain why.

[Senzu_Bean]

They do not but that is really the old talk.

They do, until proven wrong. It's not as though it would be off-topic for you you to discuss why what I said isn't true. If Kid Buu is not weaker than Super Buu, this is a perfect opportunity for someone to explain why.

That logic can work both ways, you know? But I'm not going to bother. It was explained hundred... thousands times already.