What if Babidi & Dabura arrived during the Cell Game?

[Perfect]

Super Perfect Cell is still Cell, regardless.

So is Buff Cell and Larvae Cell. As I said, Super Perfect Cell was never a part of my discussion.

Let me simplify it, Super Perfect Cell is Perfect Cell, with a power increase. And yes he is apart of the discussion. Goku's comment is extremely vague and leaves Dabura in comparison to a large variety of Cell's power, during the Cell Games.

[Kaboom]

I still don't understand why this stance is being taken.

Simple. Because it's true.

Let's say "about as strong as Cell" could mean anything from a 10 to a 15. Goku figures Dabra's about an 11 or 12, but he later proves to be more like a 13. Being "better than [Goku] thought" doesn't make him stronger than Cell by default. Besides, the fact that he had some trouble against a weakened, rusty Super Saiyan Gohan is cause for extreme doubt that he was anywhere NEAR Cell's highest, "Super Perfect" range, which is instead equatable to a Super Saiyan 2.

[Savage68]

Let me simplify it, Super Perfect Cell is Perfect Cell, with a power increase.

Well, you're correct in that this is a simplification. The problem is that it's an extreme and unnecessary simplification. If I wanted, I could argue that SSJ3 Goku is SSJ Goku, except with a power increase. Super Buu is Fat Buu, except with his insides tweaked around to suit him better. 1st Form Freeza is the same as Final Form Freeza, except weaker. And likewise, Buff Cell is Perfect Cell - but larger. In every one of these cases, characters' forms are separated in the DB fandom's collective mind because they appear different, or because their power varies. Yes, Super Perfect Cell is technically Cell. But, by attribute of being "Super Perfect," he isn't considered to be Perfect Cell--the general enemy of the entire Android arc and the biggest instigator for the Z-Warriors at the Cell Games.

And yes he is apart of the discussion.

He isn't apart of my discussion, though. I mentioned this twice to you; You're not putting any words into my mouth.

And, well, you haven't refuted why Goku's comment isn't specific enough to place Dabura's power neatly above Perfect Cell's. It can as general, vague, beat-around-the-bush and therefore, utterly pointless if it really needs to be taken that far by some, but that still doesn't mean that Dabura's power can't be above Cell's. "Stronger than Cell" is not "weaker than Cell," no matter how you try to slice that loaf.

Besides, the fact that he had some trouble against a weakened, rusty Super Saiyan Gohan is cause for extreme doubt that he was anywhere NEAR Cell's highest, "Super Perfect" range, which is instead equatable to a Super Saiyan 2.

This is the crux of the debate. And it's why Gohan wasn't a regular Super Saiyan against Dabura.

[Kaboom]

Besides, the fact that he had some trouble against a weakened, rusty Super Saiyan Gohan is cause for extreme doubt that he was anywhere NEAR Cell's highest, "Super Perfect" range, which is instead equatable to a Super Saiyan 2.

This is the crux of the debate. And it's why Gohan wasn't a regular Super Saiyan against Dabura.

Frankly, no it's not, and yes he was.

Keep on thinking whatever you want, but I'm tired of the constant "debates" over this topic, and the stupid so-called "argument" where there is none. You wanna favor your own scrambled, convoluted logic and ignore what was actually drawn and written? Fine. Do it on your own, instead of provoking the same bull-crap on these threads over and over and over. From now on, whenever this pops up I'm simply going to address the topic in the utmost "matter of fact" fashion and stop even entertaining the idea of treating this stupidity like it's even worth thinking about. Frankly, I can't even understand how something so simple manages to spawn the same dumb argument over and over.

Here, I'll sum up the answer of the thread's original question in one sentence: "The heroes are screwed."

Now, this thread is over before it gets any worse. If I see one more 'Dabra vs Cell vs Gohan' thread, I think I'm gonna plotz.