Piccolo vs Semi Perfect Cell

[Hellspawn28]

Piccolo should take this 8/10.

[Nazi Cola]

Cat, I wouldn't argue with Kirby456. I know him from another forum as Smoke Smoke Fruitx2/SouthKai (He'll deny it surely). He won't listen to any reason whatsoever, and like you probably noticed, he keeps repeating and repeating the exact same thing regardless of what you post, and his little ">>>>>" chains won't stop. It's just pointless.

His entire argument relies on two points:
- Goku saying Piccolo had improved greatly: Okay, so? There's still a huge gap between pre-RoSaT Piccolo and Semi-Perfect Cell...
- Piccolo hitting the Cell kid in that one panel: This can't be proven as you can't see exactly what is going on. Kirby456 will not realize this. He's adamant that it's clear that Piccolo is clocking the Cell kid (he'll tell you "zoom in zoom in youll see!!").

Anyway, I think Piccolo would do somewhat well, but ultimately I think he'd lose.

who's that? your name is offencive as hell i dont know who that is. back to the topic at hand Son Edo puts it perfectly.

kes see on? Su nimi on offencive nagu põrgu i dont tea, kes see on. Tagasi teema käepärast Son Edo paneb ta suurepäraselt.

Oh, don't play stupid with me, dude. Do I seriously need to screencap some of your posts from the other forum that are basically exact duplicates of the ones in this thread?

And of course you'd agree with Son Edo. You'd agree with anybody that has the same view as you. You'd agree with me, even though my name is offensive as hell to you. But if someone disagreed, you'd say the same two things over and over: "well goku said piccolo was mighty stronger and piccolo hitted a cell jr in the face that proves piccolo post-roast >>>>>> ussj vegeta". Those are literally the only two things you say in your posts when it comes to Piccolo's strength post-RoSaT. You won't listen to reason. You won't listen to logic. You won't listen to anything that attempts to disprove Piccolo being as strong as you say. All you'll do is repeat that same unproven argument over and over. It's practically guaranteed. That's why people like me and CatouttaHell get annoyed when debating with you. It's fine if you think Piccolo is stronger than SSjG2 Vegeta, but your argument for it is unsound and the way you present that unsound argument as pure fact is irritating, to put it nicely.

Aside: Mods, I apologize if that comes off as me attacking Kirby. I'm not trying to attack him; I'm merely trying to explain to him his behavior and why people get tired of debating with him. But if you deem it necessary to punish me, I'll accept it.

[Kirby456]

Cat, I wouldn't argue with Kirby456. I know him from another forum as Smoke Smoke Fruitx2/SouthKai (He'll deny it surely). He won't listen to any reason whatsoever, and like you probably noticed, he keeps repeating and repeating the exact same thing regardless of what you post, and his little ">>>>>" chains won't stop. It's just pointless.

His entire argument relies on two points:
- Goku saying Piccolo had improved greatly: Okay, so? There's still a huge gap between pre-RoSaT Piccolo and Semi-Perfect Cell...
- Piccolo hitting the Cell kid in that one panel: This can't be proven as you can't see exactly what is going on. Kirby456 will not realize this. He's adamant that it's clear that Piccolo is clocking the Cell kid (he'll tell you "zoom in zoom in youll see!!").

Anyway, I think Piccolo would do somewhat well, but ultimately I think he'd lose.

who's that? your name is offencive as hell i dont know who that is. back to the topic at hand Son Edo puts it perfectly.

kes see on? Su nimi on offencive nagu põrgu i dont tea, kes see on. Tagasi teema käepärast Son Edo paneb ta suurepäraselt.

Oh, don't play stupid with me, dude. Do I seriously need to screencap some of your posts from the other forum that are basically exact duplicates of the ones in this thread?

And of course you'd agree with Son Edo. You'd agree with anybody that has the same view as you. You'd agree with me, even though my name is offensive as hell to you. But if someone disagreed, you'd say the same two things over and over: "well goku said piccolo was mighty stronger and piccolo hitted a cell jr in the face that proves piccolo post-roast >>>>>> ussj vegeta". Those are literally the only two things you say in your posts when it comes to Piccolo's strength post-RoSaT. You won't listen to reason. You won't listen to logic. You won't listen to anything that attempts to disprove Piccolo being as strong as you say. All you'll do is repeat that same unproven argument over and over. It's practically guaranteed. That's why people like me and CatouttaHell get annoyed when debating with you. It's fine if you think Piccolo is stronger than SSjG2 Vegeta, but your argument for it is unsound and the way you present that unsound argument as pure fact is irritating, to put it nicely.

Aside: Mods, I apologize if that comes off as me attacking Kirby. I'm not trying to attack him; I'm merely trying to explain to him his behavior and why people get tired of debating with him. But if you deem it necessary to punish me, I'll accept it.

i dont know who you'r talking about stop attacking me for no reason i dont know you and have never done enything to you,stop picking on me this is my first dragon ball z form,i dont know what i did to you but whatever i did I'm sorry i dont want to start a fight.

i dont tea, kes you'r räägime stop rünnata mulle mingit põhjust ma ei tea sind ja ei ole kunagi teinud enything teile, peatus picking mind see on minu esimene Dragon Ball Z vormis,i dont tea, mida ma tegin, et sa aga mis iganes ma ei I'm sorry i dont taha alustada võitlust.

[VegettoEX]

I don't care who's who from what other forum.

What I care about is that people follow the rules that they agreed to prior to registration, and that we will actively enforce. If you cannot type properly, act friendly toward your fellow peers, and contribute intelligent points to discussions, you will be asked to step up your game, and/or to leave the community.

Kirby456, every single last one of your posts needs to be corrected for basic legibility -- they are simply unacceptable. I would say that if you are from another country (you list "Tallinn Estionia" as your location...) that you would certainly get some leeway from the moderation staff, but your IP resolves to Comcast here in the US... so...

Enough is enough. You forum regulars know that you have absolutely no right to go on the offensive to other members -- if you have an issue with someone, please use the "Report" tool/button that is there on each and every single post on the forum, and the moderation staff will step in. Right now, Kirby456, you are on our watch list for all of the reasons I have stated above. Continued abuse of the forum (in all areas -- posting style, attitude, etc.) will result in administrative action against your account, including warnings and up through termination.

I will re-state what the forum rules state right at the top (you can't miss it) -- this is not your everyday DBZ community, and we hold our members to a higher degree of professionalism than you would find anywhere else. If you are not willing or unable to participate at this level, we will be more than happy to recommend other communities that might be more appropriate for you.

[Kirby456]

I don't care who's who from what other forum.

What I care about is that people follow the rules that they agreed to prior to registration, and that we will actively enforce. If you cannot type properly, act friendly toward your fellow peers, and contribute intelligent points to discussions, you will be asked to step up your game, and/or to leave the community.

Kirby456, every single last one of your posts needs to be corrected for basic legibility -- they are simply unacceptable. I would say that if you are from another country (you list "Tallinn Estionia" as your location...) that you would certainly get some leeway from the moderation staff, but your IP resolves to Comcast here in the US... so...

Enough is enough. You forum regulars know that you have absolutely no right to go on the offensive to other members -- if you have an issue with someone, please use the "Report" tool/button that is there on each and every single post on the forum, and the moderation staff will step in. Right now, Kirby456, you are on our watch list for all of the reasons I have stated above. Continued abuse of the forum (in all areas -- posting style, attitude, etc.) will result in administrative action against your account, including warnings and up through termination.

I will re-state what the forum rules state right at the top (you can't miss it) -- this is not your everyday DBZ community, and we hold our members to a higher degree of professionalism than you would find anywhere else. If you are not willing or unable to participate at this level, we will be more than happy to recommend other communities that might be more appropriate for you.

all right I'm sorry,I've never been on another dragon ball z forum,also I'm from estonia but i live in america ill have to change my location,ill also work on my spelling.

[CatouttaHell]

Piccolo still standing up against the Cell Juniors means very little in the long run. It's like mentioning how Base Vegeta was taking hits from Chibi Boo and saying he's SSjin 3 level from that. They were clearly fooling around and were likely even stronger than Vegeta and Trunks. It's all opinion but I'm a firm Base Saiya-jins >>> Piccolo supporter so I can't put him any higher than Semi-Perfect Cell at the Cell Games (which isn't too bad, I've seen many people say he never surpassed #16. )

I used to be a huge Piccolo haxer myself back in my MFG days, even to the point of having him equal to SSjin Vegeta after his second RoSaT visit, Nazi Cola but thankfully I've become much more reasonable since then. I really can't stand people who just cling to some opinion with no real evidence behind it and refuse to accept they might be wrong.

[Kirby456]

Piccolo still standing up against the Cell Juniors means very little in the long run. It's like mentioning how Base Vegeta was taking hits from Chibi Boo and saying he's SSjin 3 level from that. They were clearly fooling around and were likely even stronger than Vegeta and Trunks. It's all opinion but I'm a firm Base Saiya-jins >>> Piccolo supporter so I can't put him any higher than Semi-Perfect Cell at the Cell Games (which isn't too bad, I've seen many people say he never surpassed #16. )

I used to be a huge Piccolo haxer myself back in my MFG days, even to the point of having him equal to SSjin Vegeta after his second RoSaT visit, Nazi Cola but thankfully I've become much more reasonable since then. I really can't stand people who just cling to some opinion with no real evidence behind it and refuse to accept they might be wrong.

Piccolo Post ROSAT wins this with ease for all the reasons stated above DBGTof stated it perfectly. And Catoutta Hell i didin't mean to insult you,and every one else who stated why

Piccolo Post ROSAT võitis selle kergust kõigi eespool nimetatud põhjustel DBGTof märkis ta suurepäraselt. Ja Catoutta Hell i didin't tähendab solvamine sind.

[Nazi Cola]

Okay, I apologize for my apparent outburst. It was just getting to me forum to forum. I'll use the report button from now, or at least try to. Kirby456, I didn't mean to attack you; I meant to explain to you why I find your argument unsound and annoying, although I probably put too much emotion in there. Sorry.

To do this civilly, here's what I think:

You cannot see clearly what is going on in that panel of everybody fighting the Cell kids, the one where Cell states that Vegeta/Trunks are barely holding on. You cannot factually say that Piccolo is hitting the Cell kid in the face, or at all, for that matter. It's too blurry and out of focus.

Goku saying Piccolo had powered up greatly does not automatically make Piccolo stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell or SSjG2 Vegeta. It just means Piccolo powered up greatly. That's it. There is a huge gap between where Piccolo was pre-RoSaT, and where Semi-Perfect Cell and SSjG2 Vegeta were. Piccolo can fit anywhere in there.

Piccolo still standing up against the Cell Juniors means very little in the long run. It's like mentioning how Base Vegeta was taking hits from Chibi Boo and saying he's SSjin 3 level from that. They were clearly fooling around and were likely even stronger than Vegeta and Trunks. It's all opinion but I'm a firm Base Saiya-jins >>> Piccolo supporter so I can't put him any higher than Semi-Perfect Cell at the Cell Games (which isn't too bad, I've seen many people say he never surpassed #16. )

I used to be a huge Piccolo haxer myself back in my MFG days, even to the point of having him equal to SSjin Vegeta after his second RoSaT visit, Nazi Cola but thankfully I've become much more reasonable since then. I really can't stand people who just cling to some opinion with no real evidence behind it and refuse to accept they might be wrong.

I agree with you on all points. That's part of why I had that little outburst above.

[Kirby456]

Okay, I apologize for my apparent outburst. It was just getting to me forum to forum. I'll use the report button from now, or at least try to. Kirby456, I didn't mean to attack you; I meant to explain to you why I find your argument unsound and annoying, although I probably put too much emotion in there. Sorry.

To do this civilly, here's what I think:

You cannot see clearly what is going on in that panel of everybody fighting the Cell kids, the one where Cell states that Vegeta/Trunks are barely holding on. You cannot factually say that Piccolo is hitting the Cell kid in the face, or at all, for that matter. It's too blurry and out of focus.

Goku saying Piccolo had powered up greatly does not automatically make Piccolo stronger than Semi-Perfect Cell or SSjG2 Vegeta. It just means Piccolo powered up greatly. That's it. There is a huge gap between where Piccolo was pre-RoSaT, and where Semi-Perfect Cell and SSjG2 Vegeta were. Piccolo can fit anywhere in there.

Piccolo still standing up against the Cell Juniors means very little in the long run. It's like mentioning how Base Vegeta was taking hits from Chibi Boo and saying he's SSjin 3 level from that. They were clearly fooling around and were likely even stronger than Vegeta and Trunks. It's all opinion but I'm a firm Base Saiya-jins >>> Piccolo supporter so I can't put him any higher than Semi-Perfect Cell at the Cell Games (which isn't too bad, I've seen many people say he never surpassed #16. )

I used to be a huge Piccolo haxer myself back in my MFG days, even to the point of having him equal to SSjin Vegeta after his second RoSaT visit, Nazi Cola but thankfully I've become much more reasonable since then. I really can't stand people who just cling to some opinion with no real evidence behind it and refuse to accept they might be wrong.

I agree with you on all points. That's part of why I had that little outburst above.

its okay man, back to the topic at hand i think Piccolo thinking he could beat perfect Cell even though there was no way in hell he could. This seems to indicate he can beat semi Perfect Cell easily.

tema eks mees, tagasi teema käepärast ma arvan Piccolo mõtlemist ta võiks võita täiuslik Cell kuigi puudus kuidas kurat ta võiks. See näib viitavat ta võib võita semi Perfect Cell lihtsalt.

[Kaboom]

This strikes me as one of those things where we're only going to get an eventual answer by accident, the next time a guidebook decides to talk about the Cell Games or something.

You know what I mean. It'll say, "Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo manage to fight the Cell Juniors on even footing, but Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Goku are at their mercy!" Or something about, "Piccolo has become much stronger within the Room of Spirit and Time, but Perfect Cell is still confirmed as his clear superior!"

It'll just be a story-related comment, and the writers might not even realize they're making a power-level centric statement along with it.

[Nazi Cola]

its okay man, back to the topic at hand i think Piccolo thinking he could beat perfect Cell even though there was no way in hell he could. This seems to indicate he can beat semi Perfect Cell easily.

I don't remember Piccolo thinking he could beat Cell. He came out of the RoSaT, Goku said he got a lot stronger, and then Piccolo himself said he would still be no match for Cell.

This strikes me as one of those things where we're only going to get an eventual answer by accident, the next time a guidebook decides to talk about the Cell Games or something.

You know what I mean. It'll say, "Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo manage to fight the Cell Juniors on even footing, but Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Goku are at their mercy!" Or something about, "Piccolo has become much stronger within the Room of Spirit and Time, but Perfect Cell is still confirmed as his clear superior!"

It'll just be a story-related comment, and the writers might not even realize they're making a power-level centric statement along with it.

Yeah, if we were to ever get another guidebook, this could happen.

[Kirby456]

its okay man, back to the topic at hand i think Piccolo thinking he could beat perfect Cell even though there was no way in hell he could. This seems to indicate he can beat semi Perfect Cell easily.

I don't remember Piccolo thinking he could beat Cell. He came out of the RoSaT, Goku said he got a lot stronger, and then Piccolo himself said he would still be no match for Cell.

This strikes me as one of those things where we're only going to get an eventual answer by accident, the next time a guidebook decides to talk about the Cell Games or something.

You know what I mean. It'll say, "Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo manage to fight the Cell Juniors on even footing, but Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Goku are at their mercy!" Or something about, "Piccolo has become much stronger within the Room of Spirit and Time, but Perfect Cell is still confirmed as his clear superior!"

It'll just be a story-related comment, and the writers might not even realize they're making a power-level centric statement along with it.

Yeah, if we were to ever get another guidebook, this could happen.

you make good points sir, http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 33&page=99 Piccolo thought he might have a chance against perfect Cell (even though he would have gotten stomped badly very badly).

[Nazi Cola]

you make good points sir, http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 33&page=99 Piccolo thought he might have a chance against perfect Cell (even though he would have gotten stomped badly very badly).

That's just what I said. Piccolo knew he doesn't stand a chance against Cell, which is why he didn't just come out and say "I might have a chance but tell me what you think, Goku." He didn't say anything until Goku said something to him.

[Fox666]

Chapter: 392 (DBZ 198), P13.1-5
Goku: “Hey… Piccolo! Did you go in the Room of Spirit and Time?”
Piccolo: “Indeed.”
Goku: “I can tell! You’ve risen to an entirely different level.”
Piccolo: “…Why don’t you just be frank with me? I’ve grown stronger, but even, it won’t do any good against Cell…”
Goku: “…Yeah, it won’t do any good.”
Piccolo: “Hmph…You really were frank…”

It seems like Piccolo himself recognizes that he don't stand a chance against Cell. And you must remember that Cell only used part of his power, which he used to defeat Vegeta and Trunks.

On the other hand, at the Cell Games Vegeta (after training in the Room of Time for a second time) was very confident he could take on Cell. I suppose this at least suggests there is some difference beetween Vegeta and Piccolo levels.

[Kirby456]

But still, at the end of the battle with the Cell Juniors, Piccolo was standing along with Vegeta / Trunks, which suggests Piccolo will stomp Semi Perfect Cell, methinks.

[SuperForteX]

Cell said, and I quote, "only Vegeta and Trunks are holding their own." Despite Piccolo being shown on his feet, he clearly wasn't "holding his own" due to that statement. He was getting his butt kicked.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Cell said, and I quote, "only Vegeta and Trunks are holding their own." Despite Piccolo being shown on his feet, he clearly wasn't "holding his own" due to that statement. He was getting his butt kicked.

Herms has already said that the way it is phrased in Japanese suggests that Vegeta and Trunks may just be the first of Cell's examples of who are holding their own against his kids. Piccolo can be included in the statement without any problem in the official version.

[Savage68]

Yeah, here's his quote:

It’s worth noting that for the “and” in “Vegeta and Trunks”, Cell says ya rather than to, meaning that those two aren’t necessarily the only ones fighting evenly.

[Michsi]

I stick to my statement that Piccolo was more than able to take on Semi Perfect Cell.

As I said, there is no visual indicator that Piccolo was far worse of than Vegeta or Trunks against Cell Jr. Images speak for themselves and we have one that places him in the same league with Vegeta and Trunks and there is no proof, visual or otherwise that would make me believe the opposite.
Furthermore, that above mentioned quote about Cell was meant to rouse Gohan's fear and anger about his father being in a bad shape. Why wouldn't he have mention Piccolo as well to heighten his fear?

And if nothing else, the rule of extreme power ups is more than enough for me .

[Nazi Cola]

The Cell kids were a match for Vegeta and Trunks, who were above 50% MSSj Goku, who was above SSjG3 Trunks, who was above Perfect Cell [initial]. Piccolo and Goku both knew/agreed that Piccolo was no match for Cell as he was then, didn't they? That should speak volumes, right?