Official levels from Jump. Finally Cell's and Buu's saga

[dbgtFO]

Lost posts...

Other than little to no strain, when raising one's battle power, I guess getting used it to it and then training for a long amount of time can give you more power gains than using up most of your energy in short sparring sessions, considering the grade forms use up too much energy according to Goku.

So, your idea is that Full Power simply allowed Goku to train his base for to higher levels easier?

It allowed his overall power to increase much easier, yes. Since normal power is Super Saiyan power/50 at all times, his normal power increased just as much as his Super Saiyan power.

Then with the 50x multiplier Goku reached a level that with only 1/2 of its power, it overmatches even Vegeta's 2nd Grade?

Yep, pretty much. Goku got ridiculously strong.

[goldsaint13]

It allowed his overall power to increase much easier, yes. Since normal power is Super Saiyan power/50 at all times, his normal power increased just as much as his Super Saiyan power.

Base Goku post RoSaT = SSJ Goku pre RoSaT?

Well... I think it's a bit too much...


But he could have increased his base power by 10 times or so... I think...


The way I always imagined the whole thing is that:

Base Goku post-RoSaT x50 = calm state of SSJ Full Power

Calm state of SSJ Full Power = 1/10 of his true power or so


But it can be either way...

Yep, pretty much. Goku got ridiculously strong.

Absolutely... Even if it's not clear by how much...


I think that Goku's 3000 Kili from Buu's saga is the same power he had at Cell Games, because Vegeta was still interested to see what improves Goku had gained, and also Darbula was not yet worried about Goku, like Pefect Cell was stronger than him at Cell Games...


And in case 1 Kili would be 1 million, that Goku would be 3 billions... And so 60 millions as base form, that is enough even in your view of the Full Power working...

[dbgtFO]

It allowed his overall power to increase much easier, yes. Since normal power is Super Saiyan power/50 at all times, his normal power increased just as much as his Super Saiyan power.

Base Goku post RoSaT = SSJ Goku pre RoSaT?

Well... I think it's a bit too much...

While I do have Goku increasing to a ridiculous level, I wasn't trying to say that. My point was if Goku in Super Saiyan is 5 times stronger than he was in Super Saiyan before training, then the same increase would apply to his base.
Like this:
Goku SSJ pre: 150
Goku SSJ post: 750
corresponding base power:
Goku pre: 3
Goku post: 15.

The way I always imagined the whole thing is that:

Base Goku post-RoSaT x50 = calm state of SSJ Full Power

Calm state of SSJ Full Power = 1/10 of his true power or so

Oh you had FPSSJ as a 500 times increase over base?
Well SSJ is always just 50 times base regardless of one being able to do what FPSSJs do.
FPSSJ is simply removing the strain, so you are more free in the form and can fight more efficeintly like Goku does in normal form.

[Fox666]

I think that Goku's 3000 Kili from Buu's saga is the same power he had at Cell Games, because Vegeta was still interested to see what improves Goku had gained, and also Darbula was not yet worried about Goku, like Pefect Cell was stronger than him at Cell Games...

Actually that's not the case. Gohan was the #1 during the Cell Games, but in the Boo saga Vegeta clearly states that both of them surpassed Gohan.

But if Cell Games Goku power comes only from being not more 3 millions but 30 millions in base form, then the whole Full Power thing what advantages would give?

Besides the clearly upgrade in power, he learned how to control the form, thus he can conserve energy (note that before that the use of the Super Saiyan form seemed limited) and concentrate without the stress of staying in that state. Besides they can achieve the form of Super Saiyan 2.

[goldsaint13]

Actually that's not the case. Gohan was the #1 during the Cell Games, but in the Boo saga Vegeta clearly states that both of them surpassed Gohan.

Of course... I think that Gohan's power dropped under the level Goku had at Cell Games... If he really turned to SSJ2 just to be equal to an oppenent with the same power as Perfect Cell (while at Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan was even above Super Perfect Cell)...

Besides the clearly upgrade in power, he learned how to control the form, thus he can conserve energy (note that before that the use of the Super Saiyan form seemed limited) and concentrate without the stress of staying in that state. Besides they can achieve the form of Super Saiyan 2.

Yes, but the multiplier would always be x50... Well, he could be up to 60 millions in base form (that is only half of Freezer's power) to be 3 billions as SSJ full power...

[Fox666]

Well, Vegeta clearly stated Goku surpassed the level Gohan had as a kid... thus it's clear that Goku increased his strength.

[goldsaint13]

Well, Vegeta clearly stated Goku surpassed the level Gohan had as a kid... thus it's clear that Goku increased his strength.

Vegeta said the thing in the style of: "You have the same power Gohan once had, or even a bit above him!"

I don't remember him speaking about a big difference... So there is an increase but not huge, considering SSJ1... Of course SSJ2 and SSJ3 are the real gaps...

[dbgtFO]

Well, Vegeta clearly stated Goku surpassed the level Gohan had as a kid... thus it's clear that Goku increased his strength.

Vegeta said the thing in the style of: "You have the same power Gohan once had, or even a bit above him!"

Not if you're referring to this quote:
Vegeta: “I’m looking forward to this…Show me the fruits of your training in the afterlife. *Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2* Just as I’d expect. Your power is greater than Gohan’s was back then!”

Vegeta just says Goku is stronger, he doesn't tell us how big the gap is.

Piccolo on the other hand said something similar to what you said Vegeta said:
Piccolo: “He’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…”

[goldsaint13]

Piccolo on the other hand said something similar to what you said Vegeta said:
Piccolo: “He’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…”

Ok, I mistook it for Vegeta's quote but I remembered that the statement didn't indicate a big gap...

To mediate Vegeta's and Piccolo's quotes, the first indicating an ensured, while undefined, gap and the second indicating a possible but not ensured gap (perhaps), I always considered the gap to be actual but very small... A big gap wouldn't have given Piccolo any doubt... Like with Gohan, that no one could ever have doubts about him being absolutely weaker than he was...

[dbgtFO]

Piccolo on the other hand said something similar to what you said Vegeta said:
Piccolo: “He’s already surpassed Super Saiyan as well…This is tremendous power…Perhaps even greater than Gohan’s when he fought Cell…”

Ok, I mistook it for Vegeta's quote but I remembered that the statement didn't indicate a big gap...

To mediate Vegeta's and Piccolo's quotes, the first indicating an ensured, while undefined, gap and the second indicating a possible but not ensured gap (perhaps), I always considered the gap to be actual but very small... A big gap wouldn't have given Piccolo any doubt... Like with Gohan, that no one could ever have doubts about him being absolutely weaker than he was...

Yeah, the gap is small, but it's a gap nonetheless. I think Vegeta was easily able to tell Goku's power was superior to Gohan's, because he has been obsessed with surpassing that power for the last 7 years. Piccolo on the other hand had no intentions of surpassing Gohan or anything of that sort, so the gap not being that large made it harder for him to absolutely confirm Vegeta as superior.

[goldsaint13]

Yeah, the gap is small, but it's a gap nonetheless. I think Vegeta was easily able to tell Goku's power was superior to Gohan's, because he has been obsessed with surpassing that power for the last 7 years. Piccolo on the other hand had no intentions of surpassing Gohan or anything of that sort, so the gap not being that large made it harder for him to absolutely confirm Vegeta as superior.

Ok, I agree... But assuming SSJ2 Goku to be 6.000.000.000, SSJ2 Gohan from Cell Games would be like 5.800.000.000, not that much less...