Massive influx of hate towards GT - Where did it begin?

[Michsi]

With the exception of Piccolo, those were pretty much the case with Z. Matter of fact Tenshinhan was shamefully removed from the main cast all together in Boo Saga, so I don't see the complaint unless you have a complaint with how Toriyama handled him too. DBGT was largely Goku's adventure, which didn't need Vegeta and Gohan but they both got pretty damn good amount of screentime.

I did actually, have a complaint about how Toriyama handled the cast in the Buu Saga that is, and DBGT did nothing but continue that trend. Gohan and Vegeta indeed got more screentime than the others, Vegeta even got a power up.
But did they get their own awesome moments like Vegeta vs. Buu, Gohan vs Cell in the original story? Something to make them stand out?
I'm genuinly asking here, since I admitted to not having seen most of GT.

I'm pretty positive the animation quality is pretty much the same, but Z at least has special episodes and the movies that are sometimes animated very well. Actually while I too like those fights from DB better than the majority of Z, I'd be really hard pressed to say those are better animated or choreographed than, say, Goku vs. Majin Vegeta.

Bu that's still from DBZ. Does GT have a fight of that caliber?

Saying that characters are replaced or forgotten is pretty much a non-factual statement. Yes Piccolo and Tenshinhan didn't get major time in the series...but the series didn't really need them. None of the characters were EVER replaced, at all. GT just has new characters. I mean who exactly is the counterpart for Pan and Bra in the Z era? (What's funny about Bra is that she still doesn't have as much screentime as her mother in GT) How about adult Trunks and Goten? How did they "replace" anyone? I just don't get this at all.

I'm talking about who receives screen time and who doesn't, not them taking over some one else's roles. Instead of getting Piccolo, I get Pan <- something like that. The series was MADE so as not to need them. It was Toei's decision who they wanted to focus on. They could have easily found ways to be more creative with a colourful cast of characters that Toriyama created, yet they decided to work with just a few.
If replaced doens't seem like the right term, then how about "put on a bus". In the end it's the same thing.

[NeoKING]

I did actually, have a complaint about how Toriyama handled the cast in the Buu Saga that is, and DBGT did nothing but continue that trend. Gohan and Vegeta indeed got more screentime than the others, Vegeta even got a power up.
But did they get their own awesome moments like Vegeta vs. Buu, Gohan vs Cell in the original story? Something to make them stand out?
I'm genuinly asking here, since I admitted to not having seen most of GT.

Yeah. Well, during the Baby arc, Vegeta and Gohan got to share the spotlight in one of the series more interesting moments. The thing with GT is that it's brief fights are some of the coolest ones.

But that's still from DBZ. Does GT have a fight of that caliber?

A fight like Goku vs. Majin Vegeta? Well, your mileage may vary on how good that fight was in the first place. But I'd say Goku vs. Rilld was as good.

I'm talking about who receives screen time and who doesn't, not them taking over some one else's roles. Instead of getting Piccolo, I get Pan <- something like that. The series was MADE so as not to need them. It was Toei's decision who they wanted to focus on. They could have easily found ways to be more creative with a colourful cast of characters that Toriyama created, yet they decided to work with just a few.
If replaced doens't seem like the right term, then how about "put on a bus". In the end it's the same thing.

I wouldn't say that. It was more so that they just couldn't catch up so they were useless. The series even went out of it's way to show this many times (which I don't know if I should spoil for you or not).

[Michsi]

Yeah. Well, during the Baby arc, Vegeta and Gohan got to share the spotlight in one of the series more interesting moments. The thing with GT is that it's brief fights are some of the coolest ones.

Are you talking about the Gohan vs Vegeta fight? If it's that, I'm going to have to disagree. Nothing memorable imo.

A fight like Goku vs. Majin Vegeta? Well, your mileage may vary on how good that fight was in the first place. But I'd say Goku vs. Rilld was as good.

That's one of the earlier fights I was talking about.

I wouldn't say that. It was more so that they just couldn't catch up so they were useless. The series even went out of it's way to show this many times (which I don't know if I should spoil for you or not).

If we are going to boil it down to that, then we can safely say that pretty much anybody that isn't Goku, and in one arc Gohan, is useless. Roshi facing King Piccolo ended up in failure, doesn't make it any less impressive; Vegeta's on Namek didn't amount to much in the end , didn't make it any less fun to watch; Piccolo's didn't manage to get to defeat 17, doesn't make the fight any less amazing; Tenshinhan's attempt at stopping Cell was also useless, it was still a glorious moment for him; Vegeta's sacrifice in the Buu Saga was proven to have been utterly pointless, it's still an impressive moment. Even if they didn't do much in the long run, it was fights like these that I enjoyed a lot, sometimes even more than the final fight of the arc.

[Kuwabara]

Yeah. Well, during the Baby arc, Vegeta and Gohan got to share the spotlight in one of the series more interesting moments. The thing with GT is that it's brief fights are some of the coolest ones.

Are you talking about the Gohan vs Vegeta fight? If it's that, I'm going to have to disagree. Nothing memorable imo.

I thought Gohan smashing Vegeta's face through solid pavement was pretty damn cool, don't recall anything else like that within the entirety of all three series...

[Travis Touchdown]

Bu that's still from DBZ. Does GT have a fight of that caliber?

Personally, I've always considered the Super Bebi Vegeta vs. SSJ4 Goku fight to be pretty epic.

[Rocketman]

My first exposure to DBGT was the "Step into the Grand Tour" release (ie, skipping over most of the Grand Tour). I hated Pan and Giru, didn't care for Goku in general and even less as a kid, and Trunks was completely dull.

Things improved with Vegeta and Bra's day out, then dipped again when fucking base Goten was able to tip the scales against motherfucking Vegeta, then nosedived when ~Goku~ swatted the same two fighters away without even looking.

More Pan bullshit, some Uub bullshit (who I hate for DBZ's ending), the Goku vs Oozaru Baby Vegeta was pretty neat, some Tournament bullshit, a cop-out of another Goku vs Vegeta with a stupid HURPDURP I'M HUNGRY HAVE I RUN THIS FUCKING JOKE INTO THE GROUND ENOUGH YET LOOOOOOOL. Then Super 17.

Oh, Super 17.

After that trainwreck I kept watching just to see when SS4 Vegeta would show up. Sweet evil dragon, more ~Goku~ bullshit, some Pan bullshit that had me snarling for Goku to just fucking kill her with the stupid dragon already, Goku, Goku, Goku, Goku OH BOY VEGETA no wait he's just being used as fusion fodder gogeta's retarded for some reason vegeta depowered and lost his tail for no reason vegeta getting his shit ruined again vegeta looking up at godku's crotch again as the latter rises into the heavens and is now invincible and it's over...with more pan and goku's now literally a god apparently.

Great.


tl;dr: I hate Pan and don't much care for Goku so 99% of GT either fell flat or actively pissed me off.

[Cipher]

Ah, Pan. Pan's a character I couldn't stand at first, and still can't stand in FUNimation's dub. But I've warmed up to her in the original Japanese version. She's essentially the same character as Videl in the early Boo arc, only the series doesn't throw her away quite so badly.

Also, while she doesn't ever get her true moment in the sun, she's really the only fighting girl main character in the series, which is pretty cool. Chi-Chi stops fighting and was never on par with the other characters to begin with, No. 18 only gets subplots, Videl stops fighting very actively and is well below the rest of the cast. Pan really has that all to her own.

[perucho1990]

Ah, Pan. Pan's a character I couldn't stand at first, and still can't stand in FUNimation's dub. But I've warmed up to her in the original Japanese version. She's essentially the same character as Videl in the early Boo arc, only the series doesn't throw her away quite so badly.

Also, while she doesn't ever get her true moment in the sun, she's really the only fighting girl main character in the series, which is pretty cool. Chi-Chi stops fighting and was never on par with the other characters to begin with, No. 18 only gets subplots, Videl stops fighting very actively and is well below the rest of the cast. Pan really has that all to her own.

Videl was actually entertaining, Pan wasnt.

[Savage68]

I think both were actually entertaining. Do I win?

[SilverPlaqueVII]

No, GT events aren't included in the Daizenshuu 7 timeline, for logistical reasons if nothing else: the book came out after only the first few GT episodes aired. The first GT Perfect Files book though contains a timeline that's basically a reprint of all the Saiyan/Tsufruian-related entries from the daizenshuu timeline but with GT events thrown in.

Logically, GT usually takes place between the years 789 AD and 790 AD (if you count FUNimation's dub in 10 years, 794 AD and 795 AD). The events are logically (by my standards) accurately correct.

Ah, Pan. Pan's a character I couldn't stand at first, and still can't stand in FUNimation's dub. But I've warmed up to her in the original Japanese version. She's essentially the same character as Videl in the early Boo arc, only the series doesn't throw her away quite so badly.

Also, while she doesn't ever get her true moment in the sun, she's really the only fighting girl main character in the series, which is pretty cool. Chi-Chi stops fighting and was never on par with the other characters to begin with, No. 18 only gets subplots, Videl stops fighting very actively and is well below the rest of the cast. Pan really has that all to her own.

Videl was actually entertaining, Pan wasnt.

I find Bulma and Chi-Chi's hilariously entertaining.

[perucho1990]

No, GT events aren't included in the Daizenshuu 7 timeline, for logistical reasons if nothing else: the book came out after only the first few GT episodes aired. The first GT Perfect Files book though contains a timeline that's basically a reprint of all the Saiyan/Tsufruian-related entries from the daizenshuu timeline but with GT events thrown in.

Logically, GT usually takes place between the years 789 AD and 790 AD (if you count FUNimation's dub in 10 years, 794 AD and 795 AD). The events are logically (by my standards) accurately correct.

Ah, Pan. Pan's a character I couldn't stand at first, and still can't stand in FUNimation's dub. But I've warmed up to her in the original Japanese version. She's essentially the same character as Videl in the early Boo arc, only the series doesn't throw her away quite so badly.

Also, while she doesn't ever get her true moment in the sun, she's really the only fighting girl main character in the series, which is pretty cool. Chi-Chi stops fighting and was never on par with the other characters to begin with, No. 18 only gets subplots, Videl stops fighting very actively and is well below the rest of the cast. Pan really has that all to her own.

Videl was actually entertaining, Pan wasnt.

I find Bulma and Chi-Chi's hilariously entertaining.

Me too, especially when they get mad.

Who can't (do you mean "can"...?) forget when Chi-chi does the Kaioken in canon-Anime (huh?)...?

[DBZ Mick]

For me it was more the hate younger fans had to the original Dragonball back in 2007 when I joined the horrible Atari forums than GT.

I also remember all the rumours and legends of GT, SSJ4 and all.

[sangofe]

The first version of Dragonball I watched was the french dub, and that had been very sporadic episodes from whatever aired on TV, and since they aired multiple sagas throughout the year, I saw whatever episodes my grandma had been recording for me when i finally arrived to France during holidays. Then, one day I found the wonderful channel TMC, and was able to watch most of DBZ from the point where Trunks fights cell, until the end. Sometime in between that period, I found VHS fansubs online, I think this was at around 1996 or 1997, and the first thing I EVER watched in Japanese way actually DBGT episodes 1-12...

What did I think of GT? Well, I had been dreaming of this new Dragonball since forever I read about it in French magazines and had been fantasizing about how it'd be, and how great it looked after having seen one clip as a "special" through TMC (It was Goku vs. Legic, and let's face it, this fight has to be one of the best of all of DBGT, even though it's extremely short). So... back to my opinion about DBGT; to be honest, I was completely put off by the japanese voices, especially Goku's, but I got used to it after watching 7-8 episodes, on the other hand, I really enjoyed Trunks' voice. About the content of the episodes, I thought it was all right, until they started to actually fight, when i discovered how slow the animation of the fight looked, and how weak everybody looked. To be honest, that's my biggest gripe with DBGT -- Goku has to transform into SSJ4 to hold up a building, I mean, wtf? He would've been able to do that at the end of DB! Plus... everybody looks so weak that you'd almost think they were humans.

[perucho1990]

One thing I forgot the mention was that the comedy was awful.

See Goku vs Frieza &Cell, they tried to make it look like Gotenks/Buu but failed big time. This fight makes Sakura vs Ino @Chunnin Exams look like a 5 stars fight.

[kaialone]

One thing I forgot the mention was that the comedy was awful.

Yeah, during the Shadow Dragon Saga, the scene where Si Xing Qiu appears on Goku´s forehead, was obviously trying to be as funny as the scene where Goku noticed he lost his tail for the first time, but in comparsion the GT scene seems incredibly forced.

[caejones]

Aside from Goku, I'm not fond of any of these characters. For me, this counts a lot for a story. I get attached to the characters first and foremost. When that disappears, I lose interest in the story. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that thinks like this.

I feel the same way (which is what really turned me off to the .hack// games after watching .hack//sign. Get me attached to Tsukasa then make him/her/it show up at the end of the last game to look less resolved than at the end of the anime? Dick move, guys.)

And Goku just wasn't all that interesting throughout GT. That he got turned back into a kid doesn't bother me; I like how he just kinda shrugged it off like it was no big deal. But he has pretty much no character from then on, unless by character you mean "No, let me fight alone; it's the boss!". He wasn't exactly a super developed character in the manga, but GT's Goku is lame compared even to that.
GT Goku is basically Pre-crisis Superman, except without the kryptonite.

[shinmaru]

They destroyed Cell and Frieza and everything Else.