Kenji Yamamoto(No Kai) vs Bruce Faulconer(All)

[Son Gohan Daimao]

But when you are comparing the music made by composers, especially in the way everybody is in this thread, there's no need to talk about its production. Nobody in this thread (even you) was talking about that until AgitoZ and I doubted the validity of this comparison. Then you started talking about how he plagiarizes all the time (which I don't think is true).

Indeed, I hate Faulconer Productions' music for Dragon Ball Z, but unlike you, I know how to be fair to composers that I don't like. The fact remains that you are referring to Bruce Faulconer and Kenji Yamamoto. Kenji was not innocent and Toei Animation took note of that and removed both him and his music from anything related to Dragon Ball. Bruce Faulconer (by himself) had taken credit for all of the music in Dragon Ball Z when in reality, it was a team effort and many others from Faulconer Productions' created music for the show. But you don't see me talking about his problems. And I don't see you talking about them either. Only Kenji.

And like I said before, you are putting down BOTH composers at this point.

You really don't like Kenji Yamamoto, and you don't even want to give the guy a break.

[AgitoZ]

@UnbiasedDBZfan
Okay, hold up. Just what the HELL are you even talking about anymore? You seem to keep bringing stuff up that is irrelevant and are now accusing people of being "haters".

The majority of your rebuttals are complete nonsense. Faulconer was not the reason DBZ became popular. He did not write all of the music of DBZ. All the numbers you bring up are complete and utter bullcrap. But, the biggest problem with all your "points" is that they have nothing to do with either of the men's works.

Also, quit speaking of Kikuchi, Faulconer, Yamamoto, or any composer for that matter as if you're able to know the true extent of their musical abilities. The only thing we can judge is their bodies of work. Which is what the discussion is here and that you want to avoid a large part of both of theirs.

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

@UnbiasedDBZfan
Okay, hold up. Just what the HELL are you even talking about anymore? You seem to keep bringing stuff up that is irrelevant and are now accusing people of being "haters".

The majority of your rebuttals are complete nonsense. Faulconer was not the reason DBZ became popular. He did not write all of the music of DBZ. All the numbers you bring up are complete and utter bullcrap. But, the biggest problem with all your "points" is that they have nothing to do with either of the men's works.

Also, quit speaking of Kikuchi, Faulconer, Yamamoto, or any composer for that matter as if you're able to know the true extent of their musical abilities. The only thing we can judge is their bodies of work. Which is what the discussion is here and that you want to avoid a large part of both of theirs.

Nope the population I totalled is about right. The US 310,000,000 approx. Canada 35,000,000 approx. Australia 15,000,000 approx. New Zealand 4,400,000 approx. UK 60,000,000 approx. Also I do my research. I haven't listened to many pieces of each composers music. I know how good each one is and their flaws.

[AgitoZ]

Nope the population I totalled is about right. The US 310,000,000 approx. Canada 35,000,000 approx. Australia 15,000,000 approx. New Zealand 4,400,000 approx. UK 60,000,000 approx. Also I do my research.

That's not research, that's pulling numbers out of your ass. All of them are big ifs. Especially since many of those countries I'm pretty darn sure didn't get Faulconer's score. For those that did I doubt they remember DBZ's score in general. And, like I mentioned earlier, that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I haven't listened to many pieces of each composers music. I know how good each one is and their flaws.

What.

Congratulations, you have not only lost all your credibility but also made yourself look even more arrogant than I thought.

[Gonstead]

Take away Canada and take away the UK.

Also, you can't just use an entire country's population as evidence of how many people watched DBZ.

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

I'd be surprised if there were more than 10 people in NZ that know who Bruce Faulconer is.

So basically what I'm getting from this thread is you really like Faulconer Productions and you want to here good stuff about him, so I'll put in my 2 cents:
The thing that I think hurts Faulconer's score the most is the fact that the emotional intent of the score is never well defined and it feels kinda weak (I hope that makes sense). He got better at this towards the end of the Cell arc and through Buu (particularly with Goku and Vegeta's sacrifices), but for the majority of his themes the only thing I really get out of it is intense or epic fighting theme, or random droning for the sake of background noise. While the Kikuchi and Yamamoto scores add a lot to the scene, I always felt Faulconer's score was there for the sake of having music for the show, for example, if I was to re-score the show with the Faulconer score, I'd have a difficult time finding a piece that's fear-inducing or a piece that creates a mysterious atmosphere.

Another slight niggle I have is the fact that a lot of pieces throw away their tune towards the end and turn into either something humorous or a random guitar riff. I know this is sometimes done for the sake of what's happening on screen, but at times it's really jarring and abrupt and it taking me out of the moment. Examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STAQuOkfM4g (It's a great theme up until about 1:08)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tU5EMlT3Uzw (2:10 is when it throws itself off. It's not a very good example but I can't think of any off the top of my head/)

What I think makes Faulconer's score so popular is the fact that there are certain themes that sound great by themselves, so when Faulcouner fans are watching the show they find themselves listening to the theme (which allows the weak powering up grunts from the VAs to slide by unnoticed ) rather than listening to the show as a whole and how the music is working with the picture and dialogue. I'll admit there's a few scenes that are really well scored (which are generally the significant ones that everyone remembers), but they're always stuck in between scenes that have this constantly on loop: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_msf6Eej ... re=related

I'll end this post on a more positive note with my favourite Faulconer piece that pretty much contradicts all of the above, but Faulconer Production's work during the Buu arc and late Cell Games was a huge improvement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0lj2bG-s0E

PS. I hope this doesn't sound like I'm ranting, I had a hard time putting this into words.

EDIT: Just a random thought I had, but does anyone else find that Faulconer's score is more "in your face, in the moment", while Kikuchi puts more emphasis on the build up.

[Gonstead]

I'd be surprised if there were more than 10 people in NZ that know who Bruce Faulconer is.

There's you, me and BluezaBladeNZ.

As far as I'm aware, we're the only NZ members on this site unless I forgot a few people.

I think the majority of the population has long forgotten about DBZ and moved onto other stuff like Naruto but even then I don't see much activity for Manga and Anime enthusiasts other than Armageddon Expo (Can't wait to go this year!)

[DragonBoxZTheMovies]

I'd be surprised if there were more than 10 people in NZ that know who Bruce Faulconer is.

There's you, me and BluezaBladeNZ.

As far as I'm aware, we're the only NZ members on this site unless I forgot a few people.

I think the majority of the population has long forgotten about DBZ and moved onto other stuff like Naruto but even then I don't see much activity for Manga and Anime enthusiasts other than Armageddon Expo (Can't wait to go this year!)

There's also Bussani.

[Gonstead]

I'd be surprised if there were more than 10 people in NZ that know who Bruce Faulconer is.

There's you, me and BluezaBladeNZ.

As far as I'm aware, we're the only NZ members on this site unless I forgot a few people.

I think the majority of the population has long forgotten about DBZ and moved onto other stuff like Naruto but even then I don't see much activity for Manga and Anime enthusiasts other than Armageddon Expo (Can't wait to go this year!)

There's also Bussani.

Correction: You, Me, BluezaBladeNZ and Bussani.

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

Nope the population I totalled is about right. The US 310,000,000 approx. Canada 35,000,000 approx. Australia 15,000,000 approx. New Zealand 4,400,000 approx. UK 60,000,000 approx. Also I do my research.

That's not research, that's pulling numbers out of your ass. All of them are big ifs. Especially since many of those countries I'm pretty darn sure didn't get Faulconer's score. For those that did I doubt they remember DBZ's score in general. And, like I mentioned earlier, that has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I haven't listened to many pieces of each composers music. I know how good each one is and their flaws.

What.

Congratulations, you have not only lost all your credibility but also made yourself look even more arrogant than I thought.

I made a mistake I have listened to all of their music. That was my fault for the typo.

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

Take away Canada and take away the UK.

Also, you can't just use an entire country's population as evidence of how many people watched DBZ.

Canada did get the Funimation dub from Seasons 3-5/9. Then around Season 9 the Canadians were butthurt that their precious Canadian voices and music were replaced with 'gay american music and voices' and around that time no-one was watching DBZ. Then after that they replaced the Funimation dub with the Ocean fusion saga. And Funimation was never seen again. The UK also got the Funimation dub but they got the Westwood/Ocean Dub from the get go. Also there are virtually no Canadians that like the Funimation dub(Kai or otherwise) apart from me and my friends.

[Gonstead]

Take away Canada and take away the UK.

Also, you can't just use an entire country's population as evidence of how many people watched DBZ.

Canada did get the Funimation dub from Seasons 3-5/9. Then around Season 9 the Canadians were butthurt that their precious Canadian voices and music were replaced with 'gay american music and voices' and around that time no-one was watching DBZ. Then after that they replaced the Funimation dub with the Ocean fusion saga. And Funimation was never seen again. The UK also got the Funimation dub but they got the Westwood/Ocean Dub from the get go. Also there are virtually no Canadians that like the Funimation dub(Kai or otherwise) apart from me and my friends.

They did get Funimation up until the middle of the Cell Saga, where it switched to the Westwood dub.

Even then, when the replays of the show began they started back with the Westwood dub.

As for the Canadians comment, you have no evidence to prove that. Youtube comments do not count so don't try that trick.

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

Take away Canada and take away the UK.

Also, you can't just use an entire country's population as evidence of how many people watched DBZ.

Canada did get the Funimation dub from Seasons 3-5/9. Then around Season 9 the Canadians were butthurt that their precious Canadian voices and music were replaced with 'gay american music and voices' and around that time no-one was watching DBZ. Then after that they replaced the Funimation dub with the Ocean fusion saga. And Funimation was never seen again. The UK also got the Funimation dub but they got the Westwood/Ocean Dub from the get go. Also there are virtually no Canadians that like the Funimation dub(Kai or otherwise) apart from me and my friends.

They did get Funimation up until the middle of the Cell Saga, where it switched to the Westwood dub.

Even then, when the replays of the show began they started back with the Westwood dub.

As for the Canadians comment, you have no evidence to prove that. Youtube comments do not count so don't try that trick.

That Razor kid that has flamewars with Piccolo Daimao. Nuff said.

[Gonstead]

1 Person does not make up for an entire country.

Try again.

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

1 Person does not make up for an entire country.

Try again.

You sly little devil!! BTW

[kei17]

The discussion is getting pretty worthless because of a biased person, isn't it? To begin with, what exactly is the point of this discussion? To me, it seems like everyone is just feeding the troll who keeps saying "Imma truly unbiased fan who's gonna convert you BF haters cuz Yamamoto is a fucking copy cat he's nothin compared to BF!!!!11111".

I don't think we can make this topic meaningful from now. And I really hate this kind of argument because it can make people here hate Faulconer Productions more and more. They're good, but the fans are... *sigh*

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

The discussion is getting pretty worthless because of a biased person, isn't it? To begin with, what exactly is the point of this discussion? To me, it seems like everyone is just feeding the troll who keeps saying "Imma truly unbiased fan who's gonna convert you BF haters cuz Yamamoto is a fucking copy cat he's nothin compared to BF!!!!11111".

I don't think we can make this topic meaningful from now. And I really hate this kind of argument because it can make people here hate Faulconer Productions more and more. They're good, but the fans are... *sigh*

I'm not a Faulconer fanboy. I said Kikuchi is superior to Faulconer. However what I am against is people hating a man who did nothing wrong. A man who wanted to make children excitable and playful with his music. However when I critique Yamamoto a guy who makes the Irate Gamer look like Original Lays crsips/potato chips it starts a flame war!? What the fuck man? I also ain't a troll. I could do that at any point, BUT I have class. Jheeze why do people have to pick on kids for?

[TripleRach]

I'm not a Faulconer fanboy. I said Kikuchi is superior to Faulconer. However what I am against is people hating a man who did nothing wrong. A man who wanted to make children excitable and playful with his music. However when I critique Yamamoto a guy who makes the Irate Gamer look like Original Lays crsips/potato chips it starts a flame war!? What the fuck man? I also ain't a troll. I could do that at any point, BUT I have class. Jheeze why do people have to pick on kids for?

I don't know what this thread is even about anymore, but Bruce Faulconer isn't exactly an innocent victim. There are disputes about who actually composed what in his score, after all. Either way, plenty of people on this forum enjoy his work.

And yes, Kenji Yamamoto did plagiarize some (most?) of his work, but he didn't exactly become a successful A-list musician from it. You make it sound like he went around murdering other composers.

But is there any good reason I shouldn't lock this thread? It doesn't seem to be going anywhere worthwhile.

[UnbiasedDBZfan]

I'm not a Faulconer fanboy. I said Kikuchi is superior to Faulconer. However what I am against is people hating a man who did nothing wrong. A man who wanted to make children excitable and playful with his music. However when I critique Yamamoto a guy who makes the Irate Gamer look like Original Lays crsips/potato chips it starts a flame war!? What the fuck man? I also ain't a troll. I could do that at any point, BUT I have class. Jheeze why do people have to pick on kids for?

I don't know what this thread is even about anymore, but Bruce Faulconer isn't exactly an innocent victim. There are disputes about who actually composed what in his score, after all. Either way, plenty of people on this forum enjoy his work.

And yes, Kenji Yamamoto did plagiarize some (most?) of his work, but he didn't exactly become a successful A-list musician from it. You make it sound like he went around murdering other composers.

But is there any good reason I shouldn't lock this thread? It doesn't seem to be going anywhere worthwhile.

No there isn't.

[cRookie_Monster]

I don't know Yamamoto , but I bet he is a saint compared to that man I used to work for. There are many stories I have not even begin to tell. If anyone is a hater, it's Mike, Julius and myself, but our reasons are personal. I can get behind the company on certain things; even that becomes tough because we didn't necessarily have that much control of how things went down.

btw late Cell Saga was when Ben Kasparek (editor) started to become a major force in the show. And Buu is Julius' work.