Other Super Saiyan 2's?

[Rocketman]

Now, hold on a sec, lost. Are you saying that you think Vegeta never becomes an SSj2 or that you think he doesn't ascend until he goes Majin?

Because I can understand the latter, but it's painfully obvious that Majin Vegeta was a Super Saiyan 2.

[lost in thought]

Now, hold on a sec, lost. Are you saying that you think Vegeta never becomes an SSj2 or that you think he doesn't ascend until he goes Majin?

Because I can understand the latter, but it's painfully obvious that Majin Vegeta was a Super Saiyan 2.

I am of the belief that Vegeta just doesn't get there, and that when he allowed Babidi to take him over, that through Babidi he recieved a power-up comparable to actually transforming; similar to what happens with the Elder Kai, and Son Gohan, when he unlocks what fan's call his "Mystic" power, short of Vegeta actually possessing this power before hand.

Up until now, I always believed that Vegeta for one reason or another, was physically incapable of turning SSJ2 [personal theory], and that after being taken over by Babidi, it effectively nulled the need to transform, or to make the long and drawn out monologue about him ascending to the second level, yaddah, yaddah.

[alakazam^]

Why wouldn't he? He had 7 years to train (the same timespan Goku had and in which he reached Super Saiya-jin 3 (which takes more effort since it's a stage rather unknown by that time)).

And, if you think about it, the power-up was due to the mind control, so, it should/would vanish when Vegeta died, since he wasn't Majin after that. I don't remember if there is any evidence of a possible SSJ2 ocurrence by Vegeta when he return to fight Buu, though.

[Rocketman]

Vegito goes SSj2 with no effort at all, implying that both Goku and Vegeta have access to SSj2.

[Conan the SSJ]

IMO, Vegito goes SSJ2 when Buu tries to collapse the universe, Gotenks after he goes SSJ in the room of spirit and time, and Gogeta right when he's fused. I don't know why you guys always use the "surrounding lightning" aspect to reconize SSJ2, and just because Gohan had it going for him, ever think the lightning just comes from intensified anger rather than the SSJ2 form itself?

[El_Diablo]

According to the Daizenshuu, Vegetto only went SSj, not SSj 2

[Aurek]

I don't know why you guys always use the "surrounding lightning" aspect to reconize SSJ2, and just because Gohan had it going for him, ever think the lightning just comes from intensified anger rather than the SSJ2 form itself?

Because its much harder in the Anime to detect the other aspects. Also when ever there was no shadow of a doubt someone was in SSJ2 they had lightning.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Well, we never saw the electricity thing on a Super Saiyan before everyone started going Super Saiyan 2, so we can safely assume that it's an SSj2 trait.
And Vegeta looks SSj2 against Kid Buu. So I think it wasn't the Majin power-up that helped him become a Super Saiyan 2.

[lost in thought]

Vegito goes SSj2 with no effort at all, implying that both Goku and Vegeta have access to SSj2.

One, no SSJ2. Two, it doesn't mean they have access to jack shit; look at Gotenks, he went SSJ3- however both Goten, and Trunks are unable to even go SSJ2.

Well, we never saw the electricity thing on a Super Saiyan before everyone started going Super Saiyan 2, so we can safely assume that it's an SSj2 trait.
And Vegeta looks SSj2 against Kid Buu. So I think it wasn't the Majin power-up that helped him become a Super Saiyan 2.

Let's get some unrefutable proof here, 'cause your electricity thing isn't doing it for me. Thus far, I am still of the mindset learnt from Mike's transformation guide.

[Rocketman]

Vegito goes SSj2 with no effort at all, implying that both Goku and Vegeta have access to SSj2.

One, no SSJ2. Two, it doesn't mean they have access to jack shit; look at Gotenks, he went SSJ3- however both Goten, and Trunks are unable to even go SSJ2.

Yes, but Gotenks had to train in the Hyberbolic Time Chamber to reach SSj3.

Vegito exists for a couple of seconds and goes SSj2.

And he was an SSj2, because he was surrounded by electricity, just like SSj2 Cell Games Gohan, SSj2 Goku, and Majin Vegeta.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Well, we never saw the electricity thing on a Super Saiyan before everyone started going Super Saiyan 2, so we can safely assume that it's an SSj2 trait.
And Vegeta looks SSj2 against Kid Buu. So I think it wasn't the Majin power-up that helped him become a Super Saiyan 2.

Let's get some unrefutable proof here, 'cause your electricity thing isn't doing it for me. Thus far, I am still of the mindset learnt from Mike's transformation guide.[/quote]

You mean, like, crappy flipped scanslations? EX won't be pleased!

http://img62.echo.cx/img62/1848/4209024qa.gif
http://img140.echo.cx/img140/838/4209032nz.gif

And, like I said, there was NEVER electricity in a Super Saiyan's aura before SSj2 Gohan. And the only others we see with electricity are:
SSj2 Gohan (Tenka'ichi Budôkai, displaying the "level beyond Super Saiyan" to Kibito)
SSj2 Goku
SSj2 Majin Vegeta (Gohan said they were both fighting on the level beyond Super Saiyan)
SSj2 Goku (showing Buu)
Vegetto (he has electricity when he powers up, but that's it, so it's debatable)
SSj2 Vegeta (Kid Buu fight, as I showed you)

NEVER, ever, was there electricity, other than those times.

[Aurek]

Ah, now I can see why there is confusion for me anyway, Toei not paying attention (as they seemed to do more often towards the end of DBZ) In the Anime Vegeta has no lightning in his aura when he attacks Chibi Buu so I always thought he was SSJ1. Same with Gohan fighting Dabura.

[Sho™]

I don't worry about the lightning around the aura, I look at the hair. You can tell the difference with Goku and Vegeta as they power up one after the other, during their battle. Gohan in the Buu Saga, his hair seemed to be the same in either SSJ or SSJ2...hmm.

Then again, drawings are different over time. It's hard to tell. Why not try another method? Have a look at the opponent's power. If SSJ3 has trouble, do you think regular SSJ would stand a chance? Fusions excepted of course.

[Conan the SSJ]

For Adult Gohan, it's very easy. Like Sho, I don't pay attention to the idiotic lightning concept, but pay more attention to the hair and appearence of their power status. For Adult Gohan, he's at SSJ1 when his hair is more whitish and has two small bangs, but at SSJ2 when his hair is pure golden and has one long bang, as well that it's slightly longer.

By the way, I seem to remember tons of lightning in the SSJ1 Goku Vs. Freeza fight.

[*PINHEAD*]

Yeah, I don't view lightning as the distinguishable factor of a Super Saiyan 2, either. It's just shown to indicate wild, immense power. And since SSJ2 just happens to fulfill that description...

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

By the way, I seem to remember tons of lightning in the SSJ1 Goku Vs. Freeza fight.

Nope. Unless it was in the anime. I've read the fight in the manga a thousand times. I assure you, the first case of electricity was when Gohan went SSj2.
I don't see how people can't see electricity as an SSj2 factor! Did you see how much there was when Goku and Vegeta had their big clash?!

[MyVisionity]

By the way, I seem to remember tons of lightning in the SSJ1 Goku Vs. Freeza fight.

Nope. Unless it was in the anime. I've read the fight in the manga a thousand times. I assure you, the first case of electricity was when Gohan went SSj2.
I don't see how people can't see electricity as an SSj2 factor! Did you see how much there was when Goku and Vegeta had their big clash?!

I don't think he was referring to the lightning within the aura, but just generic lightning when Goku and Freeza would clash or whatever. Yeah, electricity within the aura is definitely a SSJ2 factor, but you have to pay close attention to what's going on during a scene to realize that's what's happening in a fight. I think the confusion that people have is that later on in the Buu arc, the battles become so intense that lightning becomes a more natural part of the setting when a character's powering up for whatever reason, and then in GT it doesn't even matter to anyone apparently. But as far as Goku and Vegeta's fight in the anime, you're right, they made a point of going beyond SSJ at the start.

[*PINHEAD*]

I don't see it necessarily as a Super Saiyan 2 factor because the electricity is shown to indicate wild, immense power, which SSJ2 has. I do agree that the electricity does show that the character is SSJ2, but I don't think it exclusively indicates that level. Super Saiyan 3 also had that lightning, as well as Vegetto, which is why I think it's just an indication of fierce power. It's not like I'm disagreeing...I just think that it's an artistic way of showing power, not necessarily Super Saiyan 2.

[MyVisionity]

I agree, but I don't think anything under SSJ2 would have electricity showing up within the aura on a regular basis. From the looks of it, SSJ3 electricity is much more wild and unstable than SSJ2.