Japanese Terms in Other Adaptations

[Ringworm128]

Speaking of honorifics, there was that moment in the first FUNimation dub when Kami dies, Popo calls him Kami-san for no apparent reason!

I remember hearing that. It was so funny because kamisan refers to wife. Imagine Popo screaming "Wife!!!!" in the scene.

Well Kami and Popo might as well be married considering they lived together with nobody else to socialise with for hundreds of years.

[Adamant]

Another one from the danish manga version:

Uranai Baba
Seeing as in the viz version she's called The All-seeing Crone IIRC and Daizenshuu 7's bio for her says "Uranai Baba" is just a nickname, I'm pretty sure it could have been translated like Kame-sennin and Tsuru-sennin were.

Wasn't she first introduced as "the soothsayer, Uranai Baba" though?

[dbgtFO]

Wasn't she first introduced as "the soothsayer, Uranai Baba" though?

Yeah Kame-sennin called her "Sandsigersken Uranai Baba."
So it was in fact translated like Kame-sennin and Tsuru-sennin contrary to what my previous post said.

[Rukura]

Someone deciding a word is their own proper noun doesn't make it any less a Japanese word. At the end of the day, it's still a title/classification. If you want to take it further to expanded information, we know they come from the Shin-jin, so "Kai" isn't a race at all.

It is in the dub. The word is no longer the Japanese word "Kai", but an English word based on that sound with an entirely different meaning.

For example, both English and German have a word "gift", but they're not the same word. "Gift" in German means "poison".

Which, again, is a different breed than "All according to consilium". (Translator's note: consilium means plan.)

But if in the dub they say "He's a Kai", that word "kai" is still the same untranslated japanese word that means the same, sounds the same and is written the same way, with the same kanji (界), no matter how you shake it (when it comes to the kaio and kaioshin, anyway). That's almost as bad as people who say "KamehameHA WAVE" (because that "ha" = "wave")
Yes, they look really really dumb by calling someone a "world", but that's the word they're using.

[Rocketman]

But if in the dub they say "He's a Kai", that word "kai" is still the same untranslated japanese word that means the same

No, it doesn't. "Kai" means "celestial overseer" (or if you want to be sassy, "god") in the dub. It is a different word with a different meaning that is spelled and pronounced like a word in another language.

See also: "fanny", which in the US means "ass" but in the UK means "vagina".

[Rukura]

But if in the dub they say "He's a Kai", that word "kai" is still the same untranslated japanese word that means the same

No, it doesn't. "Kai" means "celestial overseer" (or if you want to be sassy, "god") in the dub. It is a different word with a different meaning that is spelled and pronounced like a word in another language.

See also: "fanny", which in the US means "ass" but in the UK means "vagina".

Right, and I'm sure that its origin has no connection to kaio or kaioshin whasoever. It's not like the show is Japanese or anything, right? lol Come on.

"Pussy". Means "cat" and "vagina" in both. Your point being...?

[Rocketman]

Right, and I'm sure that its origin has no connection to kaio or kaioshin whasoever.

Doesn't matter, it's a different word now.

My point on this is, there is a difference between "using words descended from another language" and "weeaboo usage of Japanese".

"Kai" does not mean 'world' in the dub. Nobody says things like "he's the best fighter in the kai", which is what weeaboos do with "keikaku"/"mirai"/"baka", etc.

[Rukura]

Right, and I'm sure that its origin has no connection to kaio or kaioshin whasoever.

Doesn't matter, it's a different word now.

My point on this is, there is a difference between "using words descended from another language" and "weeaboo usage of Japanese".

"Kai" does not mean 'world' in the dub. Nobody says things like "he's the best fighter in the kai", which is what weeaboos do with "keikaku"/"mirai"/"baka", etc.

And yet the dub calls "Kaio" (king of worlds) as "King Kai". And that can't even be considered a "weaboo" usage...that's what I consider the usage of Kami, though, but I digress.
It's not that they even tried to pass it off as a new word with a new deep meaning....they were just going around translating "kaio" as a deity...just like with Kami. Unless you want to tell me that in the dub "kami" just means "protector of the earth" or something like that.
Also, nobody says "best fighter in the kai" because that would be "sekai", not just "kai". Just to clarify.

By the way,

My point on this is, there is a difference between "using words descended from another language" and "weeaboo usage of Japanese".

Could you explain that one? Because by your logic of "it's now a different word", it wouldn't fit in either one...

[VegettoEX]

I guess I could just argue back at you that you're simply inventing or twisting a new meaning for a word that you (and the dub writers) clearly know is Japanese just to avoid being called out on it.

What makes it acceptable? Just that the FUNimation dub did it? Would saying something like Yamcha is one of the "Chik"s be OK if they decided they didn't want to portray it as "our" Earth and decided to take half the word "chikyuu"?

I just don't see the distinction.

[Rocketman]

My point on this is, there is a difference between "using words descended from another language" and "weeaboo usage of Japanese".

Could you explain that one? Because by your logic of "it's now a different word", it wouldn't fit in either one...

Kai used to be a Japanese word. It gained a new meaning and lost its old one, therefore it is a new word that resembles the old, but a new word that is still descended from Japanese.

[Rukura]

Should I even try to point out how little to no sense that actually made, or can I just point you to the post above yours? It pretty much says what I was trying to get across, but in fewer words.

[Rocketman]

I guess I could just argue back at you that you're simply inventing or twisting a new meaning for a word that you (and the dub writers) clearly know is Japanese just to avoid being called out on it.

What makes it acceptable? Just that the FUNimation dub did it? Would saying something like Yamcha is one of the "Chik"s be OK if they decided they didn't want to portray it as "our" Earth and decided to take half the word "chikyuu"?

I just don't see the distinction.

The distinction is that Kai has been absorbed into English as a noun meaning "celestial overseer" (albiet only in the narrow confines of Dragonball), while "keikaku" is a Japanese word used straight because the translator has a boner for Japan and can't stand to remove it.

To use a different language, nobody claims that you're speaking French when you say the city name "Baton Rouge" (French for "red stick"). If you replace every instance of "I love you" with "j'taime", though, then you are a French weeaboo.

[RazorX]

You can update your first post with these:

Dragon Ball: Blue Water English Dub

-Son Goku
-Nyoi-bo
-Choushin sui
-Tao Pai Pai
-Mafuba
-Denshi jar
-Shen

Dragon Ball Z: Ocean Group English Dub

-Kienzan
-Kaioken (correct pronunciation)
-Kaio

Dragon Ball GT: Blue Water English Dub

-Oozaru
-Choushin sui
-Suu Shenron
-Ii Shenron
-Other evil Shenrons have their Japanese names

There may be more.

[Akumaito Beam]

I get what RocketMan is saying. Japanese terms aren't left in the Funi dub because they came from the magical, glorious world of stunning Nippon. Stuff like "Kai" and "Senzu" slipped in as a Dragonballisms because of the translators incompetence at deconstructing proper nouns. As opposed to knowingly doing obnoxious weaboo shit like keeping "Nakama","Onee-San" and "Kawaii" not because you suck so bad at your job translating simple words are beyond your abilities but because "BAKA GAIJIN I KEEP NIPPON WORDS TO PRESERVE THE GLORIOUS BEAUTIFUL LANGUAGE! WE'RE NOT 4FAIL HERE!" *proceeds to visually edit spit into blood*

In short, Funi keeping Japanese words is a different brand of stupidity and incompetence.

[Rocketman]

Only half right, as I don't see it as especially stupid or incompetent at all.

[penguintruth]

Oh yeah. I totally think the Ginyu Force should be referred to as the Milk Force, with Captain Milk, Yogurt, Cream, Butter, and Cheese.

[Rukura]

I get what RocketMan is saying. Japanese terms aren't left in the Funi dub because they came from the magical, glorious world of stunning Nippon. Stuff like "Kai" and "Senzu" slipped in as a Dragonballisms because of the translators incompetence at deconstructing proper nouns. As opposed to knowingly doing obnoxious weaboo shit like keeping "Nakama","Onee-San" and "Kawaii" not because you suck so bad at your job translating simple words are beyond your abilities but because "BAKA GAIJIN I KEEP NIPPON WORDS TO PRESERVE THE GLORIOUS BEAUTIFUL LANGUAGE! WE'RE NOT 4FAIL HERE!" *proceeds to visually edit spit into blood*

In short Funi keeping Japanese words is a different brand of stupidity and incompetence.

Yes, because "Kami" is such a complicated japanese word that NOBODY had any idea what to turn it into. That's totally a Dragonballism! Doesn't come from japanese at all!.....or maybe, just like "King Kai" (aka. KAIo, wherever that came from), it was FUNimation toning down the reference to god-like beings before digisubs' non-tranlations? Ya know, whichever lol

Only half right, as I don't see it as especially stupid or incompetent at all.

Sure, you see it as "creating new vocabulary".

[Akumaito Beam]

My bad, are you basically taking the stance of proper nouns are proper nouns and they can stand on their own without a translation then? I'm leaning more that way myself but then I remember the weaboo practice of keeping attack names in full Japanese. Should stuff like Roga FuFu Ken just be Roga FuFu Ken?

Edit

No, it wouldn't surprise me if Funi's translation team accidentally passed over the word "Kami", have you seen that mess?

[Perfect]

World English Dictionary
kai (kaɪ)

— n
( NZ ) food

[Māori, from Melanesian pidgin kaikai ]

I'm fairly sure the definition, like any word, depends on the context. For instance I can say, "Is the kai done?"

I can also say, "Dragon Ball refreshed or revised, etc.,"

I can refer to the dub's meaning of kai in a certain context, in which that doesn't take away the original definition as there's contexts that provide for discussing it. Not to mention the Japanese definition is more revered given more people speak Japanese and know the word than people that watch the Dragon Ball dub and understand the usage of how FUNi's twisting things.

To use a different language, nobody claims that you're speaking French when you say the city name "Baton Rouge" (French for "red stick"). If you replace every instance of "I love you" with "j'taime", though, then you are a French weeaboo.

You're confusing weebo with people that tend to interlace dialogue from other languages for whatever reason with people that're trying to emulate another culture because of some odd obsession about being that race.

[Rukura]

My bad, are you basically taking the stance of proper nouns are proper nouns and they can stand on their own without a translation then? I'm leaning more that way myself but then I remember the weaboo practice of keeping attack names in full Japanese. Should stuff like Roga FuFu Ken just be Roga FuFu Ken?

I'm taking the stance of things that are titles and not names like "God" and "King of Worlds" are things that have a rather simple translation and are not "new and different" words just because they were used in the english dub, which was Rocketman's argument.

Rocketman was saying that "kai" didn't count as a japanese word used in the english adaptation because it was given a new meaning in the dub...despite being the same word, used for the same character. And that's where all that came from.

Yes, I do understand that translating and adapting can end up being a case-by-case situation....but that wasn't quite what was being discussed (I think...at some point, it might've been and I didn't notice) neither is it what thread is about. What was is: Kai = Japanese word used in english adaptation.