End of Z Goku.

[FindKenshi]

Goku definitely wants to make Oob stronger than Pure Boo

Chapter? Page number?

and Goku definitely got stronger than he was back then.

Chapter? Page number?

Let's not throw words like "definitely" around, when what you really mean to say is "in my opinion."

[dprez]

How is that just my opinion. What else would he do.

[FindKenshi]

How is that just my opinion.

Because it's not stated in the manga? (or the anime for that matter)

What else would he do.

Try. He'd definitely try, that's for sure. But whether he could get much stronger is a debate.

[FindKenshi]

Look at it this way: Throughout the story, Goku's big jumps in power occrued within a year's time or less. Goku had been dead for seven years at that point, and as he stated during the fight with Vegeta "I thought I had reached the pinnacle of power,"

So, Goku himself admitted that in those seven years he came as far as he thought he could. He actually believed he'd come as far as anyone could.

So after seven years of trying to up his strength and only getting so far, what makes you think he could magically continue to get even more powerful? Especially now that he's on Earth without all the fancy magical training Kaio can help him with?

Could Goku have become a lot stronger? Of course he could. DID Goku become a lot stronger? We don't know, because nothing ever says that he does.

Thus, you saying he "definitely" did, is just your own personal belief. Understand, now?

[dprez]

I don't see how it's a debate. Everyone, especially Goku has always gotten stronger. How is this ten years any different.

Goku wants to fight Oob at full power and have the fight be fun and a challenge right? That's what's he lives for. Goku was sure to have gotten stronger than Pure Boo at least, so Oob will one day be that strong and probably get even stronger, and give Goku a fight.

[FindKenshi]

I don't see how it's a debate.

I know. That's what I'm trying to explain to you. Your refusal to accept any other possiblity is the problem, here.

[Kaboom]

I think we need to clarify a bit here. There's no doubt that Goku got stronger in those 10 years by some amount (which I suspect is all dprez is trying to say?). The question at hand being asked of everyone is "how much?"

[dprez]

Exactly. Oob's potential has got to be equal to Pure Boo, so he would need to be trained to surpass the power that was simply given to him at birth to give Goku a fight.

[FindKenshi]

There's no doubt that Goku got stronger in those 10 years

There is doubt, though. Nothing outright states that he got stronger in that time, so you can't simply consider it absolute fact. Does the possiblity exist that he got stronger? Duh. Is it likely he got stronger? Probably. Do we know he got stronger? No. Why don't we know? Because it's not established.

So, how could you argue that he didn't get stronger? I already presented one line of thinking.

Every time we've ever seen Goku improve his power dramatically, he's done it in a very short time. Usually within the span of a year, sometimes even less.

Goku trained non-stop for seven years straight, and made it to where he was at in the Buu saga. How do we know he gradually improved that much throughout the entire seven-year span? We don't. Maybe he got that far in just a year or two, and spent the next 6 maintaining that power and gaining tiny boosts. No matter how far-fetched you find that, the fact is, when Goku was fighting Vegeta, he said "I thought I had reached the pinnacle of strength." Here is Goku telling us that he thought he had reached the highest point he could get to, within those seven years. Actually, saying he thought he had reached the highest strength anyone ever could ("the pinnacle of strength")

So, what exactly even establishes that he can keep getting stronger? And if Uub's potential is pure-buu levels, then Goku wouldn't be so excited about fighting him again if he had become a lot stronger, see?

[Dabooyaka]

I think by this time in the series, Goku's big jumps in power are a thing of the past. His base power being close to his Ssj3 power from years prior is not implied. Most characters are at that point, except Goten, Trunks ,Pan, and maybe Gohan are pretty much tapped out.

[CaBrPi]

Exactly. Oob's potential has got to be equal to Pure Boo, so he would need to be trained to surpass the power that was simply given to him at birth to give Goku a fight.

Potential.

You mean that thing that nobody can just automatically tap into, especially Oob during his first appearance?

See, you're probably right that Oob's potential is equal to Pure Boo's power. But the fact is, the characters practically go out of their way to state that he'll need a lot of training in order to tap into that potential reliably, and not just when he's pissed.

[Saiga]

Personally, I don't think he got much stronger. The massive power gains were from things like gravity training, near death boosts and having a long way to go before reaching his limit, so I don't think he would have continued gaining strength at the pace he did in the Freeza saga.

As for Oob's potential, saying that when he's angry he's as strong as Kid Boo is like saying every time Gohan got angry he'd be as strong as Ultimate Gohan.

[FindKenshi]

Potential.

You mean that thing that nobody can just automatically tap into, especially Oob during his first appearance?

See, you're probably right that Oob's potential is equal to Pure Boo's power. But the fact is, the characters practically go out of their way to state that he'll need a lot of training in order to tap into that potential reliably, and not just when he's pissed.

Personally, I don't think he got much stronger. The massive power gains were from things like gravity training, near death boosts and having a long way to go before reaching his limit, so I don't think he would have continued gaining strength at the pace he did in the Freeza saga.

As for Oob's potential, saying that when he's angry he's as strong as Kid Boo is like saying every time Gohan got angry he'd be as strong as Ultimate Gohan.

So, dprez, do you now see that other opinions on the matter exist, and why people have them? That's all I was trying to point out to you. Do you still say it's "not a debate?"

[NANLIT]

In MY opinion, I do believe Goku got stronger. If nothing else, than just to be able to maintain being a SSJ3 in his living body. That was a major disadvantage against Pure Boo and if he got rid of that weakness, I'd see him as getting stronger by being able to fight properly at full strength.

But yeah, we barely saw of that 10 years later period and so we had no real gage of people's strengths except for the laziness of Gohan, Trunks, and Goten as well as Pan having potential (which isn't surprising considering her heritage, but at the same time she could also become lazy as she gets older) and Oob beign Pure Boo's reincarnation.

[hleV]

Goku was pretty much as strong or even stronger than Pure Boo to begin with, back in the Boo arc, when he wanted to destroy Boo by focusing his SSJ3 power. So Goku may have not only wanted Oob to reveal the power equal to Pure Boo's back then, but also make Oob stronger than that, so Goku could have a fair match with him (using SSJ3, of course). Base Goku vs full-Pure Boo-power Oob is out of question.

[FNF]

Quite frankly, I haven't seen anything which disproves base Goku (eoz)~SSjin3 Goku(Boo arc). The manga all but states it;

-Goku says he would be 'better' when they had their re-match (by 'better' it could simply mean roughly the same power but without the immense energy consumption in SSjin3).

-Goku says Oob's true power was shown when he got angry.

-Goku says Oob was amazing as he expected him to be.

If anyone can bring up a 'good' point against it then be my guest.

[Dabooyaka]

Problem is Goku contradicts himself. First he says Oob might win the tournament, but then he beats him while using his base form. Ssj Goku and Vegeta can one-shot Oob, hence Oob is not nearly as strong as Goku expected. He has the potential, which is what Goku was talking about IMO. Nothing implies base Goku being close to Kid Boo in power.

[NANLIT]

Problem is Goku contradicts himself. First he says Oob might win the tournament, but then he beats him while using his base form. Ssj Goku and Vegeta can one-shot Oob, hence Oob is not nearly as strong as Goku expected. He has the potential, which is what Goku was talking about IMO. Nothing implies base Goku being close to Kid Boo in power.

You could say Goku was referring to Oob when he told Mr. Satan that someone else could win, but Goku could have also just been saying as a general "nothing's certain until it happens so don't just assume that one of us will win for sure and therefore you win."

[Kaboom]

Honestly, Goku's comments don't ultimately mean much more than, "Oob's a pretty cool guy." True, nothing really disproves the idea that Goku's magically gotten 400x stronger and is now on a Pure Boo level of power in just his normal state. But nothing requires it either. "Goku was testing Oob and saw enough to confirm what he thought and get excited" is all that matters, and whether Oob actually displayed the full power of Pure Boo is largely irrelevant in the end.

Point being that when it comes down to choosing either something outlandish and hard to believe (400x stronger from 10 years of MOUNTAIN TRAINING) versus fudging around with it for something more realistic (Goku "saw enough" to confirm his suspicions about Oob), nobody should be lambasting anyone else for going one way or another.

[dprez]

Potential.

You mean that thing that nobody can just automatically tap into, especially Oob during his first appearance?

See, you're probably right that Oob's potential is equal to Pure Boo's power. But the fact is, the characters practically go out of their way to state that he'll need a lot of training in order to tap into that potential reliably, and not just when he's pissed.

Personally, I don't think he got much stronger. The massive power gains were from things like gravity training, near death boosts and having a long way to go before reaching his limit, so I don't think he would have continued gaining strength at the pace he did in the Freeza saga.

As for Oob's potential, saying that when he's angry he's as strong as Kid Boo is like saying every time Gohan got angry he'd be as strong as Ultimate Gohan.

So, dprez, do you now see that other opinions on the matter exist, and why people have them? That's all I was trying to point out to you. Do you still say it's "not a debate?"

That first quote is about Oob's potential being released at Pure Boo level at the tournament, which I never agreed with or said I did, I said that with training Oob could reach that power and rival Goku, and the other is just speculation on Goku's limits. It's outright stated that he was going to train, and that he had for the majority of the ten year gap.

I have no idea the level of power Goku and Oob showed when they faught (it was no where near Ssj3 level imo), nor do I know how strong Goku was at base or at maximum, but we are shown that's it's highly likely he got stronger over the ten year gap from statements alone.