Planet Busters

[Nex Carnifex]

Like did Trunks' blast that killed Freeza make an explosion at all? Nope. The explosion was pretty much contained to that tiny radius from his hand, but it still did more damage than the Spirit Bomb.

Not necessarily. All it did was vaporize Freeza's diced remains. I doubt Freeza was still alive after being chopped into pieces, and if he was, I doubt he'd have been able to use any kind of ki to defend against even the weakest of blasts.

I don't know about that, he was was cut up and left without ki (used it to blast Goku) when he survived the full force of Namek's explosion. Then survived the vaccum of space with his inside head exposed for a while. I'd say his body is pretty durable and he can survive being cut in half given half his head was missing in space. But there are plenty more examples besides that.

[soulnova]

In the real world, the sun would take somewhere over one billion times more energy to blow up than the Earth. Building upon my previous numbers, that would be a battle power of around 324,000,000,000,000.

...Someone might find that interesting...

First time I watched Cooler's Revenge, I was sure they had blown up the sun with that Genki dama and would need to wish it back with the Dragon Balls. LOL

[Fox666]

The Earth is 100 times more massive than the Moon. Mass matters, not "size".
Roshi pops the Moon at ~140.
140 x 100 = 14,000
The first character to threaten the Earth is also the first character above 14,000 - Vegeta.

Going by Wikipedia, the mass of the Earth is 81.3 times the Earth, and the Sun is 332,900 times that of the Earth.

If to destroy the moon you need a minimum of 139, then 11,300 would be the minimum to destroy the Earth and 3,762,000,000 for the Sun.

[Kiyza]

Don' get me wrong, I may like applying ridiculously realistic math to this subject for fun, but it doesn't bother me if Dragon Ball wants to blow up planets, or even be inconsistent with who can and can't. The thread's question is more about whether it happened too soon.

Yeah, don't get me wrong either. I love the fact that you guys are applying real world math to subjects like this, I just feel like I have little to contribute in that department, and I'd rather give an opinion on the premise than write an equation to prove why it's outlandish.

Once you've reached the point where you're blowing up planets, it's kind of hard to display feats of strength that outdo that, you know? You can't escalate things further unless you blow up...I don't know, a star or something.

Well, I think that depends a lot on what you've got your nose in. Blowing up a planet is impressive and all, but it's peanuts to the stuff that I've seen in other series, where characters can destroy galaxies or even entire universes. That's around the point where I really have to struggle with the whole suspension of disbelief, but I can still accept it, depending on the context.

Going by Wikipedia, the mass of the Earth is 81.3 times the Earth, and the Sun is 332,900 times that of the Earth.

I think you mean the mass of the Earth is 81.3 times the Moon.

[Bussani]

Well, I think that depends a lot on what you've got your nose in. Blowing up a planet is impressive and all, but it's peanuts to the stuff that I've seen in other series, where characters can destroy galaxies or even entire universes. That's around the point where I really have to struggle with the whole suspension of disbelief, but I can still accept it, depending on the context.

That's true. There are plenty of things you can do that are more impressive than blowing up a planet. I think what makes it harder to do in Dragon Ball is that the story mostly still takes place on Earth later on, so the scope of what can be destroyed in the battle gets sort of limited. If Dragon Ball had more travelling to other parts of the universe, showing off a character's strength by having them blow up a solar system would be easier.

[Hellspawn28]

If an effortless finger beam can destroy a possibly smaller sized Arlira, then I'd bet a fully freaking charged Gyarikku-ho could destroy Earth in the anime. lol

Fillers always make things create inconsistency stuff in the show which is why I never tend to use them in debates (I think other people do as well). Like in the Buu saga had a filler of Mr. Popo holding off both SSj Goten and Trunks for example. So would that mean that Mr. Poo could defeat Freeza?

[Nex Carnifex]

Going by Wikipedia, the mass of the Earth is 81.3 times the Earth, and the Sun is 332,900 times that of the Earth.

I think you mean the mass of the Moon is 81.3 times the Earth.

I think you mean the mass of the Earth is 81.3 times the Moon.

[Kiyza]

Going by Wikipedia, the mass of the Earth is 81.3 times the Earth, and the Sun is 332,900 times that of the Earth.

I think you mean the mass of the Moon is 81.3 times the Earth.

I think you mean the mass of the Earth is 81.3 times the Moon.

Hah, the irony stings just a little bit. Went back and edited my post.

[mistershin]

The Earth is 100 times more massive than the Moon. Mass matters, not "size".
Roshi pops the Moon at ~140.
140 x 100 = 14,000
The first character to threaten the Earth is also the first character above 14,000 - Vegeta.

Going by Wikipedia, the mass of the Earth is 81.3 times the Earth, and the Sun is 332,900 times that of the Earth.

If to destroy the moon you need a minimum of 139, then 11,300 would be the minimum to destroy the Earth and 3,762,000,000 for the Sun.

You are forgetting that power level INCREASES when focusing Ki into a single point aka Kamehameha.
It pretty much doubled when Goku did it, if i recall.

PL: 278 would be more accurate, In my opinion.

Likewise this would raise the figure for destroying Earth and Sun, 22,600 and 7,523,540,000 respectively.

Surprisingly this figure seems more accurate in accordance with the manga & Vegeta's Power Level.

Piccolo at pl 400, did so without charge-up or anything.
His PL most likely did not raise during this ki blast. For arguments sake lets say it did.
The results would be as follows. PL 800 = 65,040 = 21,651,816,000

Lets have some fun, namek power level goku with SSJ multipliers.
Base = 3,000,000
SSJ Goku = 150,000,000
SSJ2 = 300,000,000
SSJ3 = 1,200,000,000

Although base vegito is more powerful than SSJ3 Goku I think, I'm locking it there anyway.
Vegito = 1,200,000,000
SSJ Vegito = 60,000,000,000

Vegito would be able to Star Bust, via power level maths.

[Kiyza]

The Earth is 100 times more massive than the Moon. Mass matters, not "size".
Roshi pops the Moon at ~140.
140 x 100 = 14,000
The first character to threaten the Earth is also the first character above 14,000 - Vegeta.

Going by Wikipedia, the mass of the Earth is 81.3 times the Earth, and the Sun is 332,900 times that of the Earth.

If to destroy the moon you need a minimum of 139, then 11,300 would be the minimum to destroy the Earth and 3,762,000,000 for the Sun.

You are forgetting that power level INCREASES when focusing Ki into a single point aka Kamehameha.
It pretty much doubled when Goku did it, if i recall.

PL: 278 would be more accurate, In my opinion.

Likewise this would raise the figure for destroying Earth and Sun, 22,600 and 7,523,540,000 respectively.

Surprisingly this figure seems more accurate in accordance with the manga & Vegeta's Power Level.

Piccolo at pl 400, did so without charge-up or anything.
His PL most likely did not raise during this ki blast. For arguments sake lets say it did.
The results would be as follows. PL 800 = 65,040 = 21,651,816,000

Lets have some fun, namek power level goku with SSJ multipliers.
Base = 3,000,000
SSJ Goku = 150,000,000
SSJ2 = 300,000,000
SSJ3 = 1,200,000,000

Although base vegito is more powerful than SSJ3 Goku I think, I'm locking it there anyway.
Vegito = 1,200,000,000
SSJ Vegito = 60,000,000,000

Vegito would be able to Star Bust, via power level maths.

Like Bussani mentioned earlier, it's not sheer mass that's the issue with blowing up a planet. You have to worry about gravitational binding energy, otherwise your estimates are going to be significantly below what they should be.

[Hitiro]

Like Bussani mentioned earlier, it's not sheer mass that's the issue with blowing up a planet. You have to worry about gravitational binding energy, otherwise your estimates are going to be significantly below what they should be.

The gravitational binding energy for the moon is 1.245*10^29J and for Earth it is 2.242*10^32J to destroy both these objects you need an energy source equal to or more then their gravitational binding energy. Considering Master Roshi has a PL of 140 and we know that is the least amount of energy needed to destroy the Earth's moon(I'm assuming this but we don't know how much his maximum power Kamehameha releases). Then we can assume PL 140 == 1.245*10^29J of energy. We don't know if this is a parallel increase though. Assuming PL and energy are parallel to each other then someone of PL 140 would have get 94.44692239072257% stronger to blow up earth as the difference between the gravitational binding energy of earth and the moon is 94.44692239072257% that would mean you would need to have a PL of 271 to destroy the Earth. So I assume that PL doesn't run parallel to gravitational binding energy.

[Mystic Gohan]

Is there any point in using math in this? AT was just trying to make an interesting story.

[Rocketman]

DB's Moon is much smaller and closer to its parent than our Moon is.

[Hitiro]

Is there any point in using math in this? AT was just trying to make an interesting story.

Of course, we may find out that AT was actually a genius, lmao. XD

DB's Moon is much smaller and closer to its parent than our Moon is.

How do you know this?

[Kiyza]

The gravitational binding energy for the moon is 1.245*10^29J and for Earth it is 2.242*10^32J to destroy both these objects you need an energy source equal to or more then their gravitational binding energy. Considering Master Roshi has a PL of 140 and we know that is the least amount of energy needed to destroy the Earth's moon(I'm assuming this but we don't know how much his maximum power Kamehameha releases). Then we can assume PL 140 == 1.245*10^29J of energy. We don't know if this is a parallel increase though. Assuming PL and energy are parallel to each other then someone of PL 140 would have get 94.44692239072257% stronger to blow up earth as the difference between the gravitational binding energy of earth and the moon is 94.44692239072257% that would mean you would need to have a PL of 271 to destroy the Earth. So I assume that PL doesn't run parallel to gravitational binding energy.

I think you made a math error in there somewhere, and I'm going to wager that you forgot to take the difference in exponents. Bussani actually made some calculations of his own at the top of the second page and they seem like a more accurate estimate, albeit I haven't actually done the math for myself.

Is there any point in using math in this? AT was just trying to make an interesting story.

To be fair, pretty much everyone on the site is guilty of having over-analyzed the series at times -- some people just prefer to do it with math. I think it's a pretty interesting discussion myself, but each to their own.

DB's Moon is much smaller and closer to its parent than our Moon is.

How do you know this?

Rocketman pointed out once that the curvature of the Dragon Ball world's moon would mean that it's much smaller than our moon, and would thusly have to be closer to the planet to appear so large in the night sky. There was a bit of a discussion on it a while back you can find here.

[Rocketman]

DB's Moon is much smaller and closer to its parent than our Moon is.

How do you know this?

Comparison of its apparent size from Earth and the apparent size of Earth from the Moon.

If our Moon was as close as DB's Moon, it would be in geosynchronous orbit about 25,000 miles up, orbiting earth once every day. (For comparison, our Moon is roughly 250,000 miles away and takes 28.5 days to orbit.) Its gravity would raise a single gigantic mountain of water taller than the Empire State Building and would noticeably distort the shape of the Earth.

[Fox666]

As seen in Dr. Slump, the size of Earth or Sun is just of a few meters.

[Rocketman]

As seen in Dr. Slump

No. Get that out of here.


Although, interestingly enough, the Moon was formed because a planet the size of Mars slammed into the young Earth, melting both planets together and blasting Earth's surface off into space.

[Bussani]

Then we can assume PL 140 == 1.245*10^29J of energy. We don't know if this is a parallel increase though. Assuming PL and energy are parallel to each other then someone of PL 140 would have get 94.44692239072257% stronger to blow up earth as the difference between the gravitational binding energy of earth and the moon is 94.44692239072257% that would mean you would need to have a PL of 271 to destroy the Earth. So I assume that PL doesn't run parallel to gravitational binding energy.

Like Kiyza said, I think you made a mistake somewhere. Either that or you're saying something else and I'm misunderstanding it. 1.24 * 10^29 joules is nearly 1800 times less than 2.24 * 10^32 joules.

Is there any point in using math in this?

I find applying real life math to fiction and looking at the absurd results funny, personally. I don't expect any of the numbers to fit or be serious.

[Hitiro]

I think you made a math error in there somewhere, and I'm going to wager that you forgot to take the difference in exponents. Bussani actually made some calculations of his own at the top of the second page and they seem like a more accurate estimate, albeit I haven't actually done the math for myself.

Yes, it seems I did miscalculate the difference between the exponents. I don't really understand how I made such an error. But I can guarantee you that the gravitational binding energy of both the Earth and Moon are correct. After re-working this out then the Moon is 0.000555307760927743086529884032% of the Earth. By dividing 140 by the previous percentage it gives us 252,112. Or you can additionally work out how much you need to multiply the Moon's gravitational binding energy to get the same amount as the Earth's by dividing the Earth's binding energy from the Moon's which gives you 1,800.8032128514056224899598393574. Then just multiply 140 by that and you should arrive at the 252,112. Of course this means that there is no way Frieza could have destroyed Planet Vegeta with a powerlevel of 530,000. Unless his death ball, or whatever technique he used to destroy Planet Vegeta increased his ki output several times as Planet Vegeta has a much larger gravity than Earths, even if it was the same size the gravitational constant would probably have to be re-thought.

Rocketman pointed out once that the curvature of the Dragon Ball world's moon would mean that it's much smaller than our moon, and would thusly have to be closer to the planet to appear so large in the night sky. There was a bit of a discussion on it a while back you can find here.

The problem with this is it was a gag panel, I don't think we should take this into account when considering the size of the moon. Sure Akira brings up the point in one of the Q&A's in the tankoubon that Goku did indeed put them on the moon but I think he used it purely to say that the Nyoi-bo could stretch up to at least 380,000 km, considering he says it can go up to at least 380,000 km and the average distance between the Earth and the Moon is 384,400 km then I would say that it was indeed the same size as our Moon. Hell, we can't expect Akira to draw everything perfect. He isn't a god who can just slap out anything onto a paper and it be in perfect proportion.