Women voicing men, Tanaka's Kuririn, etc.

[OutlawTorn]

I don't care if a woman happens to voice a male character, in the case of Nozawa I just don't particularly care for her voice and there's nothing that can change that.

I always thought that Goku and Gohan felt like different characters as kids and adults in the English dub because of the different voices, there's sort of a major disassociation between them.

I've happened to notice some voices in live action TV which feature teenage actors where the voice is significantly deeper from a previous season, to the point where I've wondered if it was artifically pitched down for whatever reason. Obviously, that doesn't make them any different of a person than they were before the vocal shift, so I really cannot agree that any change in actor for a child and adult version of a character makes them feel like different characters. The writing, on the other hand, can make or break characters, so whether the adult versions of dub Goku and Gohan were written completely different than their child incarnations, that's where I would put any blame for characterization issues.

Voices can even change significantly during the course of adult life. Take William Shatner and George Takei from Star Trek and compare their voices from the 1960s to anything they've done recently. Daniel Radcliffe's voice changed quite a bit during the Harry Potter movies from the moment he first spoke in Philosopher's Stone to the epilogue of Deathly Hallows, as did every other of the young actors. It's not just maturation which can alter a voice but also injury or disease and considering the amount of fighting in Dragon Ball it seems farfetched that characters wouldn't sustain any sort of injury to the throat at some point.

We just have to face it that a large group of people are simply not interested in an accurate DBZ dub.

Unfortunate, yeah. I'd love to see a non-Kai (that being, all 291 episodes of DBZ proper) accurate redubbing of DBZ, but I'm sure even the people who would have been interested would just say it was "too little, too late" so it wouldn't be worth doing at this point.

[Fionordequester]

But that sorta IS Goku's definining characteristic. It's what keeps him from being just another boring superhero. He's a manchild. That's what I like about him.

I don't like the fact that he sounds like a manchild though, and I don't think he even is one. Or at least, not most of the time. I mean he's got his childish moments, but he's not a child through and through.

When I hear Schemmel's Goku, it's got all this gravity to it that is unnecessary. It's hard, not very malleable. Sure, he's improved over time, but it just doesn't have that other-wordly charm that Nozawa's does.

Really? I don't think Schemell's Goku sounds too hard, or even overly manly. I hear warmth, childishness, and, I guess...experience. Dunno how to describe it more than that. He genuinely sounds like someone people would look up to. His voice just had that sort of warmth and strength (in my ears at any rate).

And besides, at least he doesn't sound as "manly" as someone like, say, any given person in the Big Green dubs besides Krillin and Trunk's. In any case though, his voice certainly can be very hard for the dramatic moments...

Again, I'm not knocking Nozawa at all, I'm just saying, the very same way she's irreplaceable to you, Sean Schemell as Goku is irreplaceable to me.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Piccolo Daimao, the problem is, these same people would REJECT an accurate dub for DBZ proper. These people are the ones who reject the DB Kai dub, because it doesn't have lines like "Ally to good, nightmare to you!" in them or the Faulconer music.

We just have to face it that a large group of people are simply not interested in an accurate DBZ dub. They want what they grew up watching on Toonami. Anything else is "for kids" (I've actually heard this said about Kai... as if DBZ itself wasn't for kids), or "gay". And no amount of reasoning is going to change that.

I know, but if only they'd just done it right the first time around. Gokuu would still be just as popular, if not moreso, in the US if he was the same naive and energetic bumpkin in the original, rather than a generic superhero. If they'd put in Kikuchi's soundtrack...well, I'm not sure if it'd appeal to American youngsters (perhaps Yamamoto would, though; his Kai stuff sounds more modern, but of course, that's out of the picture), but it's better than that Faulconer's synth blaring on all the goddamn time.

And I thought you said that they'd buy anything?

I always thought that Goku and Gohan felt like different characters as kids and adults in the English dub because of the different voices, there's sort of a major disassociation between them.

I've happened to notice some voices in live action TV which feature teenage actors where the voice is significantly deeper from a previous season, to the point where I've wondered if it was artifically pitched down for whatever reason. Obviously, that doesn't make them any different of a person than they were before the vocal shift, so I really cannot agree that any change in actor for a child and adult version of a character makes them feel like different characters. The writing, on the other hand, can make or break characters, so whether the adult versions of dub Goku and Gohan were written completely different than their child incarnations, that's where I would put any blame for characterization issues.

Voices can even change significantly during the course of adult life. Take William Shatner and George Takei from Star Trek and compare their voices from the 1960s to anything they've done recently. Daniel Radcliffe's voice changed quite a bit during the Harry Potter movies from the moment he first spoke in Philosopher's Stone to the epilogue of Deathly Hallows, as did every other of the young actors. It's not just maturation which can alter a voice but also injury or disease and considering the amount of fighting in Dragon Ball it seems farfetched that characters wouldn't sustain any sort of injury to the throat at some point.

I guess he means that they just sound so drastically different that it's as if they're different characters. Daniel Radcliffe is a good example, but even him in The Deathly Hallows still sounds somewhat like him in The Philosopher's Stone, just with a deeper pitch.

Kyle Hebert, despite doing a great teen Gohan, doesn't actually sound like an aged-up version of Nadolny or Clinkenbeard's Gohan. But sometimes, those things can't be helped. Women can't always voice teenage boys and men good, and two people's voices won't always match up. I think it's a non-issue, to be honest. I mean, apart from the eyes (which he shares with Gokuu, Kuririn, etc.), teen Gohan doesn't even really look like his child self anymore. So that's something not worth bothering about.

Also, I think someone said a while ago that, in the US, because they dubbed Dragon Ball Z first, they did the adult version of the character first and then the child version. It's understandably hard to work backwards like that.

[matt0044]

Now, like I said, I haven't actually watched a whole lot of Z with Nozawa's Goku, so, I could very easily be speaking out of ignorance. But...those are just my feelings. Would anyone like to respond?

I honestly like both in their own ways. For JPN, it's Masako Nozawa but for ENG, it's Sean Schemmel for me.

[Son Satan]

Also, I think someone said a while ago that, in the US, because they dubbed Dragon Ball Z first, they did the adult version of the character first and then the child version. It's understandably hard to work backwards like that.

That's true, although (and I know it was determined by a poll online, but still) I thought it wasn't a bad idea to cast Nadolny as both Gohan and Goku. Understandably, if they're son and father like that, they might sound similar, much in the way that Nozawa voiced both of Goku's sons, where they still had different voices between them, no matter how subtle (something which I thought Nadolny always had done between Gohan and Goku, which was mostly letting up on the gravel for Goku).

[LiamKav]

(something which I thought Nadolny always had done between Gohan and Goku, which was mostly letting up on the gravel for Goku).

I always wondered how much of that was an intentional attempt to differentiate the voices, and how much was just imrovements in acting ability. Her Goku is far more tollerable than her Gohan, although the fact that it's put in a better dub with better background music helps as well.

Was Nadolny ever doing both Goku and Gohan at the same time, or had she finished doing Z by the time the DB dub started?

[Piccolo Daimao]

(something which I thought Nadolny always had done between Gohan and Goku, which was mostly letting up on the gravel for Goku).

I always wondered how much of that was an intentional attempt to differentiate the voices, and how much was just imrovements in acting ability. Her Goku is far more tollerable than her Gohan, although the fact that it's put in a better dub with better background music helps as well.

Was Nadolny ever doing both Goku and Gohan at the same time, or had she finished doing Z by the time the DB dub started?

I think their Dragon Ball dub was definitely after their Dragon Ball Z dub. I think Schemmel's Gokuu had improved a bit too.

But she was miscast for both of them. Kid Gokuu was still raspy, and her acting was poor.

[Gaffer Tape]

It wasn't after DBZ. It was during it. It began in 2001, which coincided with DBZ season 5. So it was still going on, but that was immediately after she stopped voicing Gohan.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It wasn't after DBZ. It was during it. It began in 2001, which coincided with DBZ season 5. So it was still going on, but that was immediately after she stopped voicing Gohan.

Ah, my mistake. Assumptions are the mother of all fuck-ups.

[OutlawTorn]

Also, I think someone said a while ago that, in the US, because they dubbed Dragon Ball Z first, they did the adult version of the character first and then the child version. It's understandably hard to work backwards like that.

That would be accurate with FUNimation's own cast, but Saffron Henderson voiced Goku in Dragon Ball before Ian Corlett voiced him in DBZ or Saffron voicing Gohan in DBZ. That attempt at dubbing Dragon Ball wasn't exactly successful, only getting 13 episodes (and the first movie) completed before DBZ took over.

The point I was making is people can sound entirely different as adults than they did as children, especially males, which is why the practice of using women to voice young boy characters is so prevalent. Imagine if a young boy had have been cast to voice Bart Simpson... I guarantee that unless there was frequent recasting, they could not have the show keep the characters the same age for nearly 25 years.

Dragon Ball, with its numerous time jumps and character aging, doesn't have that issue. In fact, it often has the reverse or, in the case of Trunks, both. A young boy with a voice suitable for a seven year old Goten would not be suitable for Goten in the final episodes of DBZ let alone Goten in GT. However, personally, I don't really feel any sort of disconnect between the different ages of the characters with different actors portraying them.

[Piccolo Daimao]

Also, I think someone said a while ago that, in the US, because they dubbed Dragon Ball Z first, they did the adult version of the character first and then the child version. It's understandably hard to work backwards like that.

That would be accurate with FUNimation's own cast, but Saffron Henderson voiced Goku in Dragon Ball before Ian Corlett voiced him in DBZ or Saffron voicing Gohan in DBZ. That attempt at dubbing Dragon Ball wasn't exactly successful, only getting 13 episodes (and the first movie) completed before DBZ took over.

The point I was making is people can sound entirely different as adults than they did as children, especially males, which is why the practice of using women to voice young boy characters is so prevalent. Imagine if a young boy had have been cast to voice Bart Simpson... I guarantee that unless there was frequent recasting, they could not have the show keep the characters the same age for nearly 25 years.

Dragon Ball, with its numerous time jumps and character aging, doesn't have that issue. In fact, it often has the reverse or, in the case of Trunks, both. A young boy with a voice suitable for a seven year old Goten would not be suitable for Goten in the final episodes of DBZ let alone Goten in GT. However, personally, I don't really feel any sort of disconnect between the different ages of the characters with different actors portraying them.

Yeah, I understand and agree with you.

[LiamKav]

It's been a while, but I seem to recall some US cartoons staring kids that had voice "aging" in them. Doug, and maybe Hey, Arnold! I'm not sure if they used kids or adults though,

[Piccolo Daimao]

It's been a while, but I seem to recall some US cartoons staring kids that had voice "aging" in them. Doug, and maybe Hey, Arnold! I'm not sure if they used kids or adults though,

What do you mean?

[AgitoZ]

It's been a while, but I seem to recall some US cartoons staring kids that had voice "aging" in them. Doug, and maybe Hey, Arnold! I'm not sure if they used kids or adults though,

What do you mean?

I believe he's trying to say those shows starred actual kids playing kids and their voices changed through out them. Which, in Hey Arnold!'s case, is true and is why the titular character went through several different voices. Or maybe I'm wrong because Doug did not star any kids and Doug was played by chameleon Billy West, who was like 40 at the time.

Maybe it would help if he was a bit more clear with the point of bringing up these examples.

[Piccolo Daimao]

It's been a while, but I seem to recall some US cartoons staring kids that had voice "aging" in them. Doug, and maybe Hey, Arnold! I'm not sure if they used kids or adults though,

What do you mean?

I believe he's trying to say those shows starred actual kids playing kids and their voices changed through out them. Which, in Hey Arnold!'s case, is true and is why the titular character went through several different voices. Or maybe I'm wrong because Doug did not star any kids and Doug was played by chameleon Billy West, who was like 40 at the time.

Maybe it would help if he was a bit more clear with the point of bringing up these examples.

Right. But yeah, I don't think that'd be the best way to go, since those young boys' voices would obviously mature.

[LiamKav]

Sorry, I should have been clearer. I seem to recall a storyline in Doug where his best friend's voice got deeper, and a similar storyline in Hey Arnold! I was just trying to recall whether they were voiced by kids who's actualy voices were aging, or if they were older people just putting on deeper voices.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

I think that if you criticize Nozawa's Adult Goku for being strange or not being age-appropriate, then you also have to criticize Nadolny's Kid Goku for similar reasons. One is a male child voiced by a young woman and the other is an male adult voiced by an old woman. On the surface, it doesn't make much sense. But, then again, it's a cartoon show. Does it really need to?



I find Nozawa's adult Goku annoyingly and deafeningly shrill at times, but that's my opinion and I wouldn't dare argue it objectively (I've probably done so in the past though, and for that I apologize).

[penguintruth]

Nozawa's child Goku sounded way younger than the character should (how many 12 year olds sound like that?), but nobody complains about that.

[LiamKav]

Nozawa's child Goku sounded way younger than the character should (how many 12 year olds sound like that?), but nobody complains about that.

Well, Goku also looked way younger than he should, especially if you compare him to Gohan when he was 12.

I think that if you criticize Nozawa's Adult Goku for being strange or not being age-appropriate, then you also have to criticize Nadolny's Kid Goku for similar reasons. One is a male child voiced by a young woman and the other is an male adult voiced by an old woman. On the surface, it doesn't make much sense. But, then again, it's a cartoon show. Does it really need to?

"It's a cartoon show" is an excuse for a lot of things, but it does somewhat ruin arguments.

I would say there is a difference between the two examples. Women are hired to voice young boys, because children and adult women tend to have higher voices than adult males. Since hiring children is difficult, it becomes easier to hire an adult woman. And, er, get her to deepen her voice.

I was watching the DragonBall episode where Goku is chasing Yajoribe to get his dragonball, and I noticed that in the dub, Yajirobe didn't get a different voice for when he's a kid. It's not like the dub avoids mentioning that he is a child either... the narrator calls him a "mountain boy" several times. I wonder why he was an exception.

[Gaffer Tape]

What? How old is Yajirobe supposed to be? As far as I could tell, he always looked pretty much the same up until he grew his mustache. I never assumed he was intended to be a non-adult when we first meet him.