What if.... No More Yamcha

[Kid Buu]

Mr. Satan. If there was no Mr. Satan, Boo would never have gained a conscience, which would mean he would never get enraged at Satan being shot, meaning he'd never get any stronger than his fat persona, so Gotenks would've annihilated him.

He threw #16's head to Gohan, which is what led him to become SSJ2.

[Marco Polo]

Actually, that's not what I'm saying either (although I did say that earlier, but that was a separate point).

Marco Polo made the assertion that Kid Trunks was necessary to the story because you couldn't have Future Trunks without him. Now, I wasn't making any kind of assessment in that particular point as to whether any of those characters were necessary to the story or not. I was just refuting Marco Polo's claim. Kid Trunks is not at all a necessary antecedent for Future Trunks. They are two completely different and separate people. Future Trunks exists independently of Kid Trunks. Kid Trunks does not grow into Future Trunks. And it doesn't matter if something as simple as Vegeta and Blooma conceiving a child on a different day happens or something as ridiculously extreme as Future Trunks murdering Kid Trunks in cold blood. Neither is going to have any effect on the existence of Future Trunks (although the latter might emotionally scar him, but that's another story...). So while the question of whether or not Kid Trunks is necessary is still on the table, to say that he's necessary because there wouldn't be a Future Trunks without him having existed is simply invalid.

I didn't assert that at all. I said nothing about Kid Trunks being important. All I said is that there should be a Kid Trunks if there is a Future Trunks. Kid Trunks does not grow into Future Trunks, but he is still his counterpart in our timeline just like Future Gohan has a counterpart, Future Bulma has a counterpart. The timeline diverges but in both timelines Vegeta and Bulma get together and have a son.

However, Pantalones made the correct assertation that given the couple of seemingly random differences between the two timelines, the sperm that was... "used" to become Future Trunks in one timeline could perhaps somehow not have been used to become Kid Trunks in our timeline.

Hmm, maybe Future Bulma could bring Present Vegeta to her timeline, have him kill the Androids & Cell. And he'll have his own world where he is the strongest in the universe.

But Vegeta has no reason to care about Future Bulma if Future Trunks does not exist.

[Kid Buu]

Hmm, maybe Future Bulma could bring Present Vegeta to her timeline, have him kill the Androids & Cell. And he'll have his own world where he is the strongest in the universe.

But Vegeta has no reason to care about Future Bulma if Future Trunks does not exist.

It was a joke, hence the smilie at the end.

[Gaffer Tape]

You sorta can't remove Kid Trunks without removing Future Trunks, and Future Trunks is essential.

This is what you said: that if you remove Kid Trunks, you're removing Future Trunks. Somehow, I'm just not getting how your recent explanation gels with the above sentence, but maybe that's just me, and if I misinterpreted, then I apologize.

[Marco Polo]

You sorta can't remove Kid Trunks without removing Future Trunks, and Future Trunks is essential.

This is what you said: that if you remove Kid Trunks, you're removing Future Trunks. Somehow, I'm just not getting how your recent explanation gels with the above sentence, but maybe that's just me, and if I misinterpreted, then I apologize.

This is all explained in my previous post. Nothing in the line you quoted says "Future Trunks is Kid Trunks except grown up".

[Gaffer Tape]

Okay. So then what does it mean when you say you "can't remove" Kid Trunks without removing Future Trunks? Your above explanation says that it's only fitting for characters to have a counterpart. That's not the same thing as not being able to not have one. After all, #16 (for example) doesn't seem to have one.

[GS7X7]

"However, Pantalones made the correct assertation that given the couple of seemingly random differences between the two timelines, the sperm that was... "used" to become Future Trunks in one timeline could perhaps somehow not have been used to become Kid Trunks in our timeline."

"Oh, well, hmm.... Saiyan have different DNA!" Toriyama would just say something like that to hand-wave it away.

[Famicon3DS]

Puar would have no other choice but to join Gokuu and his friends, Bulma would be a carrot, Leaving Oolong and Puar, Goku starts training with Kame-sennin, Krillin comes, everything stays the same until the Zinzoningen arc, Vegeta never meets Bulma, no Trunks to kill Freeza and warn Goku and co. about the future, Goku defeats Freeza again, Goes the route of The History of Trunks without the Trunks part, Earth gets destroyed.

The end.

[Kamiccolo9]

Puar would have no other choice but to join Gokuu and his friends, Bulma would be a carrot, Leaving Oolong and Puar, Goku starts training with Kame-sennin, Krillin comes, everything stays the same until the Zinzoningen arc, Vegeta never meets Bulma, no Trunks to warn Goku and co. about the future , Goes the route of The History of Trunks without the Trunks part, Earth gets destroyed.

The end.

Why would Goku go to train with Roshi? He thinks Roshi is just some old guy who lives on an island with his turtle. And Raditz would wipe out humanity long before the Androids would.

[Famicon3DS]

Puar would have no other choice but to join Gokuu and his friends, Bulma would be a carrot, Leaving Oolong and Puar, Goku starts training with Kame-sennin, Krillin comes, everything stays the same until the Zinzoningen arc, Vegeta never meets Bulma, no Trunks to warn Goku and co. about the future , Goes the route of The History of Trunks without the Trunks part, Earth gets destroyed.

The end.

Why would Goku go to train with Roshi? He thinks Roshi is just some old guy who lives on an island with his turtle. And Raditz would wipe out humanity long before the Androids would.

I forgot about that little fact.

[Kamiccolo9]

Puar would have no other choice but to join Gokuu and his friends, Bulma would be a carrot, Leaving Oolong and Puar, Goku starts training with Kame-sennin, Krillin comes, everything stays the same until the Zinzoningen arc, Vegeta never meets Bulma, no Trunks to warn Goku and co. about the future , Goes the route of The History of Trunks without the Trunks part, Earth gets destroyed.

The end.

Why would Goku go to train with Roshi? He thinks Roshi is just some old guy who lives on an island with his turtle. And Raditz would wipe out humanity long before the Androids would.

I forgot about that little fact.

No biggy. The smallest thing in this series affects everything else, so it's kinda hard to keep track of everything

[Gaffer Tape]

Why would he think that? The carrot incident happens AFTER Mt. Frypan, so Goku would have already seen the Kamehameha by this point.

[Kamiccolo9]

Why would he think that? The carrot incident happens AFTER Mt. Frypan, so Goku would have already seen the Kamehameha by this point.

Oops, looks like I did it too. Sorry about that Famicon3DS
Raditz would still wipe everyone out long before the Androids though.

[Puto]

Mr. Satan. If there was no Mr. Satan, Boo would never have gained a conscience, which would mean he would never get enraged at Satan being shot, meaning he'd never get any stronger than his fat persona, so Gotenks would've annihilated him.

He threw #16's head to Gohan, which is what led him to become SSJ2.

Somebody else could've done that. Somehow I doubt Mr. Satan throwing the head is that vitally important for the transformation to have happened.

[Marco Polo]

Okay. So then what does it mean when you say you "can't remove" Kid Trunks without removing Future Trunks? Your above explanation says that it's only fitting for characters to have a counterpart. That's not the same thing as not being able to not have one. After all, #16 (for example) doesn't seem to have one.

#16 most probably has one, just not activated.
Future Trunks has a counterpart because the timelines are that close.

BUT, Pantalones and GS7X7 are correct when they say a random change could make Future Trunks not have a counterpart.

[Gaffer Tape]

Which again makes me ask, then, what it means when you say that you "can't remove" Kid Trunks without removing Future Trunks when even you admit that a tiny alteration would result in just that. Obviously you can remove him.

[Marco Polo]

Are you trolling or something?

And the keyword is random. The alteration would be totally random, not tiny or big.

[Gaffer Tape]

I have no idea what makes you think I'm "trolling." I'm honestly trying to understand what you mean, but it's just not making any sense to me. Since your profile says you're from France, I'm wondering if English isn't your first language, and maybe that's why we're having trouble communicating. But as far as I can tell you're contradicting yourself. Either he can be removed without affecting Future Trunks or he can't. But somehow you're arguing for both.

And the keyword is random. The alteration would be totally random, not tiny or big.

And I have absolutely no idea what you mean by this or how it relates to your statement as to whether or not you can remove Kid Trunks without affecting Future Trunks. Does it? Or is this an entirely new subject that I missed the boat on? Because my point is that removing Kid Trunks would create NO alteration to Future Trunks, be it tiny, big, random, medium-sized, super-sized, diet-sized, or kid-sized.

[RandomGuy96]

Necro, but I just had a thought. Remember when I said Tien could be removed with no problems? Well scratch that. Without him, Dende and Mr.Satan get killed by Buutenks. This leads to the universe being destroyed.