How strong was Dabura?

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:34 pm

Hmmm this is a good question. Honestly I'm going to go with Dabura, Pocus and Yakon all being there original strength and Badibi opting not to bring their power past their limits for whatever reason.

I think Dabura > Kaioshin even before becoming a Majin.

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:19 pm

Mjb1985 wrote:Hmmm this is a good question. Honestly I'm going to go with Dabura, Pocus and Yakon all being there original strength and Badibi opting not to bring their power past their limits for whatever reason.

I think Dabura > Kaioshin even before becoming a Majin.

That makes sense, although it does render Dabura incapable of being a Makaioshin, like many believe.

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:38 pm

Yea I like the idea but unfortunately it doesn't jive with my interpretation. I don't think Dabura is inferior to Kaioshin not never.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:01 pm

Well, after the Buu arc, Dabura is dead. Maybe the guidebook was referring to after the Buu arc as the time when the Makaioshin are inferior to the Kaioshin? That would still allow Dabura to be one, and would allow the guidebook statement to hold up.

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:58 pm

I don't know. Sounds good enough. Sometimes I love not needing to find ways to make guidebook material fit

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:58 pm

Zephyr wrote:Well, after the Buu arc, Dabura is dead. Maybe the guidebook was referring to after the Buu arc as the time when the Makaioshin are inferior to the Kaioshin? That would still allow Dabura to be one, and would allow the guidebook statement to hold up.

Possibly, but from what I've seen, the Daizenshuu has been shown to include dead people in strength comparisons. For example, Gotenks is said to have surpassed Vegeta after his ROSAT training, but at the time, Vegeta was dead. Admittedly, the situation is a bit different, seeing as Vegeta is alive at the end of the manga, but I don't see any point in them saying that Kaioshin are stronger than Makaioshin, except for the one that just died. It seems more like a blanket statement to me.

TheMightyOzaru · Post by **TheMightyOzaru** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:25 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Mjb1985 wrote:Hmmm this is a good question. Honestly I'm going to go with Dabura, Pocus and Yakon all being there original strength and Badibi opting not to bring their power past their limits for whatever reason.

I think Dabura > Kaioshin even before becoming a Majin.
That makes sense, although it does render Dabura incapable of being a Makaioshin, like many believe.

He is supposedly the strongest in the Demon realm so he could be a Daimakaioshin.

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:28 pm

Now your talking! But yea, Dabura is the King of the Demon Realm, why can't the Kaioshins be forced to team up against him? Is that so bad?

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:29 pm

TheMightyOzaru wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Mjb1985 wrote:Hmmm this is a good question. Honestly I'm going to go with Dabura, Pocus and Yakon all being there original strength and Badibi opting not to bring their power past their limits for whatever reason.

I think Dabura > Kaioshin even before becoming a Majin.
That makes sense, although it does render Dabura incapable of being a Makaioshin, like many believe.
He is supposedly the strongest in the Demon realm so he could be a Daimakaioshin.

True, but the Dai Kaioshin was lumped together with the rest of the Kaioshins, so why wouldn't the same go for the Daimakaioshin and the Makaioshins?
Is Daimakaioshin even a thing, though? I don't think that position is ever mentioned.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:59 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:It seems more like a blanket statement to me.

It certainly seems more like its intended to be a blanket statement, but that becomes problematic when we try to actually apply it to what the series depicts (like a lot of other guidebook info).

Kamiccolo9 · Post by **Kamiccolo9** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:04 am

Zephyr wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It seems more like a blanket statement to me.
It certainly seems more like its intended to be a blanket statement, but that becomes problematic when we try to actually apply it to what the series depicts (like a lot of other guidebook info).

True, but nothing ever states that Dabura is a Makaioshin. That's just a fan theory. So treating this as a blanket statement contradicts nothing in the manga.
I do see your point though, and I personally have no problem with you wanting to take it that way. I just disagree.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:04 am

I think we are all underestimating Dabura a bit here...

Vegeta said that they would be able to manage something against him (note: this is the same thing Goku said about Kid Buu and Vegeta/Gohan/Killin said about Freeza). They, as in, the group. He later said that Dabura wasn't unbeatable. Nothing about Dabura being trash here. Later, Dabura says that Gohan is trash that he'll have no trouble beating.

Later, Gohan says that he needs to get angry to beat Initial Fat Buu, and implies that even if he gets angry it'll be a difficult fight. Meanwhile Dabura is caling him garbage and is eager to kick his ass. Buu powers up and then quickly beats Dabura, which nearly makes Gohan crap himself, implying that even his angered self wouldn't be capable of the same feat.

Dabura can easily be as strong as Vegeta or Super Perfect Cell.

PerfectFreeza · Post by **PerfectFreeza** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:12 am

Vegeta seems confident in taking Dabra solo though and Goku doesn't say anything about him lacking power requiered to beat Dabra.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:17 am

PerfectFreeza wrote:Vegeta seems confident in taking Dabra solo though and Goku doesn't say anything about him lacking power requiered to beat Dabra.

This

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:19 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:True, but nothing ever states that Dabura is a Makaioshin. That's just a fan theory. So treating this as a blanket statement contradicts nothing in the manga.

True. I'm simply starting to buy into that theory. Seeing as he is said to be the lord of that lower realm, and the Makaioshin are said to live down in that same realm, and by name would be implied to be the rulers. Granted, if he was meant to be one, you'd think they'd have mentioned it when the Makaioshin were brought up in the first place...

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:03 pm

Yea I don't think Dabura is anything special. I have him slightly inferior to Super Saiyan Gohan. Badibi even having to question if Dabura can win or not speaks volumes over Dabura's ridiculous confidence imo.

RandomGuy96 · Post by **RandomGuy96** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:07 pm

Not only does Dabura only being Super Saiyan level contradict the Daiz, but none of the dialogue involving Fat Buu, and Gohan's reaction to him, makes any sense if Dabura is that pitifully weak. Also, Vegeta would have bragged about being able to one-shot him.

Mjb1985 · Post by **Mjb1985** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:37 pm

I'm not worried about contradicting the Daiz, I'm worried about contradicting the manga.

Gohan is shown to be a Super Saiyan fighting Dabura evenly. There's no ifs ands or buts about it regarding my point of view. Gohan is a Super Saiyan. And then I work from there.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 4:52 pm

The Daizenshuu already contradict themselves on the "SSj or SSj2 Gohan" thing. Why do people keep forgetting or denying it?

TheMightyOzaru · Post by **TheMightyOzaru** » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:00 pm

Kaboom wrote:The Daizenshuu already contradict themselves on the "SSj or SSj2 Gohan" thing. Why do people keep forgetting or denying it?

Just out of curiosity, where does it contradict itself? I would like to know for future references.

Kanzenshuu

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