SSJ God not permanent?

[dbzfan7]

They are an alien race, there is no reason in universe for it being gold (also what hlev said)

You can't determine color choices as that's all they are. You can determine abilities and the logic in them. Saiyan's creating an artificial god is silly in itself.

I didn't say your a genius. I meant I don't care how much of a genius in fighting Goku is. Sorry if that sounded wrong.

Except he is no longer a God when the form wears off. The Gods don't really have much or anything that special about them. There is no reason to be able to tap into power from a form that has wore off. It's like accessing power that isn't there. If I told you about SSJ God before it came out, you would think it's god damn ridiculous.

[Kamiccolo9]

The manga says pure heart, and Vegeta was pure evil.

No it doesn't. It says "tranquil heart." Vegeta just throws in the fact that he is "pure evil" as well.

Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P11.1-5
Kuririn: “Th-that’s impossible…! Wh-why can he become a Super Saiyan…?! Don’t you have to have a tranquil heart to become one…!?”
Vegeta: “I was tranquil…Tranquil and pure…Pure evil, that is…I wished to get strong just by training earnestly…And so I went through stupendous training over and over again…Eventually, I realized my limits…Through my anger towards myself, I suddenly awakened…into a Super Saiyan!”

Besides, how would Krillin know anyway?

[DBZGTKOSDH]

and part of a transformation for Saiyans who are not human (or half human).

Still doesn't make sense why it's golden and not, say, green.

It's impossible to explain Saiyan physiology because we don't have the required information. However if humans can turn grey, there's really no big deal with Saiyans turning blonde, especially when it's a transformation. How many transformations have you seen in real life that you can label Saiyan transformation into blonde as nonsense? Or are you saying that transforming into blonde doesn't make sense even by DB standarts?

Which is why I kept saying "it's fiction" and "it's how it works".

What "various theories"? Metamorians created the Fusion Dance, not discovered it. If I created a game or a program, I would give it the look I see fit. Others would just launch it. Same goes to Goten & Trunks using a Metamorian-created technique. It really is very very simple, I honestly have no idea how you're having so much trouble with Metamorian clothes.

It's not the same thing. If you create a game on, say, PC, you will have to transfer it to mine for me to play it.

Fusion, however, wasn't passed to Goku by the Metamorians through, say, magic. They only gave him instructions on how to do it. If you had given me simple instructions to me so that I can create a PC game, I would create a similar game to yours, but not an identical one. But Fusion is just a dance, some moves that any humanoid can do, it can't be literally "created".

My theory is that Fusion adapts to its users. If a couple keeps using the form continuously, then eventually, their own clothes will slowly become part of their Fusion, and also part of their students (and the students of their students, if the students of the Fusion masters haven't used Fusion lots of times). Once a student keeps using the technique, then their clothes will also become part of their Fusion, combined with the clothes of their masters, until they fully adapt to the technique, which makes their masters' clothes disappear from their Fusion.

This means that when Fusion was first discovered, the result was a naked person. Gotenks has the Metamoran clothes in Boo arc because Fusion was taught to them by Piccolo (had never used Fusion), who was taught by Goku (had never used Fusion), who was taught by the Metamoran couple (who had used Fusion countless times). In GT, we learned from DBH that if Goten & Trunks had used Fusion, then the clothes of Gotenks will be a combination of the Metamorans', Goten's, and Trunks' clothes. So, I believe that by the time of GT, if Goten had taught Fusion to a couple, then the Fusion of the couple would get GT Gotenks' clothes, while if Goku had taught it to another couple, then the Fusion of the couple would get the Metamorans' clothes.

No it doesn't. It says "tranquil heart." Vegeta just throws in the fact that he is "pure evil" as well.

Then I guess a tranquil/calm heart works, whether it's pure or pure evil.

I didn't say your a genius. I meant I don't care how much of a genius in fighting Goku is. Sorry if that sounded wrong.

Oh, it sounded like you were ironic or something. No problem then.

Except he is no longer a God when the form wears off. The Gods don't really have much or anything that special about them. There is no reason to be able to tap into power from a form that has wore off. It's like accessing power that isn't there. If I told you about SSJ God before it came out, you would think it's god damn ridiculous.

If Goku had stopped fighting Beers when he was still a Super Saiyan (with SSG power), then I believe that Goku would remain a god, if he wanted. Instead, he accidentally used SSG again, which drained all the power.
Also, since we didn't get any comment from Vegeta & co. like "I can sense his power now, it's incredible" when Goku reverted to base & went Super Saiyan, I get this as an implication that Goku had kept the godly ki.

[dbzfan7]

Oh, it sounded like you were ironic or something. No problem then.

I'm not trying to be mean or ironic. Sorry though

If Goku had stopped fighting Beers when he was still a Super Saiyan (with SSG power), then I believe that Goku would remain a god, if he wanted. Instead, he accidentally used SSG again, which drained all the power.
Also, since we didn't get any comment from Vegeta & co. like "I can sense his power now, it's incredible" when Goku reverted to base & went Super Saiyan, I get this as an implication that Goku had kept the godly ki.

Maybe Goku didn't burn out all of it's power in their first round and that's why, but the time limit ran out. I still find it odd how he can accomplish this without even trying.

[TheGmGoken]

Have you ever spar with someone in real life? It's a really tiring thing that doesn't last hours, just some minutes.

Depends to be honest. Sparing can last from as short as a quick minute to 1 hour.

[Zephyr]

Why bother have a time limit if it won't matter in the end. Maybe fusion can be held longer too if done just like this.

It wasn't a fabricated time limit. The form stays in its full activated state for a set amount of time. It has a set amount of fuel. Once that fuel runs out, it shuts off. There are still fumes though, resin, remains, footprints of the fuel, that can be sparked to reactivate it again, if the user is skilled enough, which Goku happens to be.

You can say it doesn't make sense all you want, but there are plenty of explanations that can be made that make perfect sense if you suspend your disbelief enough. And this is Dragon Ball, the fact that anyone ever has any trouble suspending their disbelief with any part of it really, really baffles me.

BOG doesn't make sense even by DB logic/standarts in a few instances, which is exactly my problem with it.

I'm still not seeing how it doesn't. Dragon Ball's standards themselves have always been inconsistent as all hell. And this is a ridiculously powerful GOD form, the fact that it has attributes and abilities that are unconventional should be expected, rather than be seen as a blatantly criminal bastardization of the apparently consistent laws of the gag-built Dragon Ball universe. You're complaining about a form that can easily be made sense of if you would allow it to, despite the fact that this is all ultimately built upon an arc that with 100% certainty involved Goku going all the way to the moon with no issue, in space, where it's cold as all hell, and he's later shown to be very sensitive to snow, which is much less cold than space. The moon was also destroyed, with no negative tidal effects. Again, you're picking and choosing which bullshit you want to accept, and which bullshit you don't want to accept. But it's all bullshit regardless. Dragon Ball is built on it.

This attitude that Battle of Gods ruined everything, albeit an entirely acceptable attitude to have, seems to have cropped up because everyone apparently had the preconception that it would be super consistent, coherent, and instantly make loads of sense.

[Kamiccolo9]

[ Again, you're picking and choosing which bullshit you want to accept, and which bullshit you don't want to accept. But it's all bullshit regardless. Dragon Ball is built on it.

I love this.

[dbzfan7]

It wasn't a fabricated time limit. The form stays in its full activated state for a set amount of time. It has a set amount of fuel. Once that fuel runs out, it shuts off. There are still fumes though, resin, remains, footprints of the fuel, that can be sparked to reactivate it again, if the user is skilled enough, which Goku happens to be.

You can say it doesn't make sense all you want, but there are plenty of explanations that can be made that make perfect sense if you suspend your disbelief enough. And this is Dragon Ball, the fact that anyone ever has any trouble suspending their disbelief with any part of it really, really baffles me.

DBZG's theory is a little better as if he had reserves that he could access in SSJ and used it all once he absorbed Birus' attack and transformed to SSJG one final time. Still doesn't make much sense, but it's a little better than nothing.

[hleV]

It's not the same thing. If you create a game on, say, PC, you will have to transfer it to mine for me to play it.

Fusion, however, wasn't passed to Goku by the Metamorians through, say, magic. They only gave him instructions on how to do it. If you had given me simple instructions to me so that I can create a PC game, I would create a similar game to yours, but not an identical one. But Fusion is just a dance, some moves that any humanoid can do, it can't be literally "created".

Metamorians created a technique which from then on could be used by anyone so long as they know the dance.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

It's not the same thing. If you create a game on, say, PC, you will have to transfer it to mine for me to play it.

Fusion, however, wasn't passed to Goku by the Metamorians through, say, magic. They only gave him instructions on how to do it. If you had given me simple instructions to me so that I can create a PC game, I would create a similar game to yours, but not an identical one. But Fusion is just a dance, some moves that any humanoid can do, it can't be literally "created".

Metamorians created a technique which from then on could be used by anyone so long as they know the dance.

That's your theory. Not an official explanation.

[hleV]

That's the only simple explanation. And DB is simple.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

That's the only simple explanation. And DB is simple.

It doesn't work for me though.

[hleV]

I honestly don't care if it doesn't work for you. If you provide a valid reason for why it can't work in DB (when we know nothing of Metamorian abilities, but do know that Fusion is a special technique, and special techniques are indeed unique), then we can continue arguing. Otherwise, the simplest way works, because DB doesn't rely on complex explanations.

But sure, making up theories based off of DBH is totally the best solution!

Again, you're picking and choosing which bullshit you want to accept, and which bullshit you don't want to accept. But it's all bullshit regardless.

Which bullshit do I accept?

[Barunks]

At this point it's all speculation until a follow up to the story of BoG in some way shape or form crops up.

... The 28th Tenkaichi Budokai arc says "hi".

So are you saying we should act like BOG never happened like all the characters did by then? I'm down with that.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I honestly don't care if it doesn't work for you.

And you don't have to. If it works for you, that's awesome. I can't go by that, however.

But sure, making up theories based off of DBH is totally the best solution!

Why not?

So are you saying we should act like BOG never happened like all the characters did by then? I'm down with that.

What? No, I'm just pointing out that the 28th TB arc is set after BoG. We see Goku considering Oob a challenge for him, but if Goku had stayed a god, Oob wouldn't be a challenge at all.

[Tenshin_Saiyan]

Detailed Synopsis :

Whis offers Goku the job of being the next God of Destruction, after Beerus dies, but Goku turns him down.

Well, if Goku's godly power up was just temporary, why Whis would offer the job of being the next God of Destruction to him? It makes no sense!

[hleV]

But sure, making up theories based off of DBH is totally the best solution!

Why not?

Because they don't know what they're doing.

Well, if Goku's godly power up was just temporary, why Whis would offer the job of being the next God of Destruction to him? It makes no sense!

Perhaps because Goku is the strongest guy after Whis & Beerus. Though there's Gohan and enraged Vegeta that are supposedly stronger... fuck this, it's pointless to try to explain BOG.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Well, if Goku's godly power up was just temporary, why Whis would offer the job of being the next God of Destruction to him? It makes no sense!

Dende was a mortal before he became a Kami.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well, if Goku's godly power up was just temporary, why Whis would offer the job of being the next God of Destruction to him? It makes no sense!

Dende was a mortal before he became a Kami.

Kami offered Goku his job as well.

[Zephyr]

Again, you're picking and choosing which bullshit you want to accept, and which bullshit you don't want to accept. But it's all bullshit regardless.

Which bullshit do I accept?

All of the bullshit from the manga.

Perhaps because Goku is the strongest guy after Whis & Beerus. Though there's Gohan and enraged Vegeta that are supposedly stronger... fuck this, it's pointless to try to explain BOG.

Goku's also quite clearly the most skilled combatant.